Originally posted by slleipnir

I do know that I want my dogs trained to listen to me NO MATTER WHAT. I expect them to come when I call, even if there is a dog. (Duno how to do that!!!)
We always tell people in class that they won't get instant results. It involves a lot of practice before you can go for a normal walk without having to worry about training. We tell them that if they want to take a walk without training, then to use a tool like the Halti, Sporn No-Pull, Gentle Leader, etc.

We have them start training exercises in their home. When a dog becomes good at an exercise, then they start practicing in the front or backyard. They eventually get to the point where they can practice in public (Petsmart, dog park, etc). If the dog just can't concentrate, we go back a step because they weren't ready. When you get to the point where your dog is proficient at doing exercises in public, then they get very used to listening to you even with distractions (other dogs) around. We have several 'relationship' exercises that we mix with the obedience exercises that really train the dog to focus on the owner. It does involve patience, consistency, and some conditioning. It can get fast results often, but it does depend on the dog. I do truly believe that positve methods work with any dog, some just require a bit more patience, hehe

Originally posted by Suki Wingy
I think the people who belive there is always another way have not experianced the kind of hardheaded dogs like NiÑo who pull like a monster and absolutley refuse to listen to me some times. When I heard people say that a dog could be trained with a choke or a martingle I thought they were insane and radical and had never really tryed to train a dog before. I bet my next dog will be a breeze to train after NiÑo, even if it is a dal.
Thats not true I don't always state my experience in these threads, but I usually try to so that people won't think I'm just spewing words out with no experience behind them. I've been a volunteer at the humane society here for 5 years. I immediately started an intensive training program where I interned with behaviorists and learned a lot about dog training and behavior. I also volunteer with trainers and behaviorists so I'm constantly involved in good conversations with them. I teach obedience classes to the public. Through the classes and the shelter dogs, I've encountered some of the hardest dogs I've ever seen. I've been banged up and bruised from walking massively large adolescent dogs who pull like the dickens. I have literally been dragged through a field. Candy also stated her experience before giving her opinions.

I'll be the first to admit that the methods I teach take a little longer than using a prong. But if you think about it, using a choke/prong isn't really *training*. It is a physical correction, but does it really teach the dog what the desired behavior is? I guess that is an arguable point, because with a prong, you will get a dog walking by your side. However, I just can't fathom how "popping" the dog and telling them "no" constantly helps your relationship and causes no harm to their mental well-being. No, not every dog on a prong will become mentally damaged. But there are vast amounts of dogs who are shy or come from abusive pasts and that would damage their mental well-being.