Dog Races

[guster girl]

I think it sounds interesting. I mean, it doesn't sound like a puppy mill, which is what I think a lot of people were imagining. But, I could be wrong about that, too. It doesn't bother me, though, as it sounds like they are well taken care of. The description is very detailed, though, and, I personally thank you for it. They certainly get fed well.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by greysandmoregreys
...
The pups are then moved to a "puppy" area. Sometimes it's similar to the brood house and other times its to an outside run area that has a large dog hut, house, shelter which again is normally filled with some type of bedding. Hay, straw, something to that effect. During this time the pups play and romp with one another. Work out the pack order and all and all just be puppys.

Once they are around 6 months old there moved to what is called long runs. Where there are normally 3 hounds per run. This is where the pups start learning to streatch there legs, build up muscle, the compete with one another by running up and down the fence line with the pups on the other sides. When they get tired they lay down and sleep, soak up the sun, or whatever they chose to do. These runs also have the huts,houses, shelters with bedding also.

At 12 months of age the pups are moved into the "racing/training" kennel which is where they learn about crating, collars, muzzles, turn outs, this is where the real training starts.

They are normally taken to sprint paths with other hounds from different litters. Most training consist of a whirly gig...

They then go on to the tracks
where they learn to chase the mechanical lure...

What do the Pups / Young Dogs get in the way of
"Human" Interaction??

How often (or what percentage of the day) do they receive the
"attention" of a Human?
Does anyone "talk" to them;
give them a pat on the head or a friendly *rub*;
do they ever get a real "Walk on a Leash"?

Many Rescue Sites mention the problem that "typical" rescue Greys
"don't Know How to PLAY" and are fearful of almost any human.

/s/ Phred
.

[7up]

Hi all. 7up here. The illusive poll linking lurker. LOL

Maybe I can add to the confusion with a slightly different viewpoint. I have been on GreyTalk for some time. I am not a fan of greyhound racing and I make that very clear. There are others who feel the same way and we have all grown some pretty thick skin as you might well imagine by now.

I want to let you know that even us greyhound owners have been accused of ignorance for our unsavory opinions because we
either:

1. have not been to a race, or
2. have not been to a kennel, or
3. the kennel we visited was not representative of most kennels, or
4. we lie like dogs (no pun intended).

Even if we meet the above criteria, it has been stated that we still cannot form an opinion without actually working in a kennel. I would venture to guess if we did that it would be the wrong kennel, not long enough or if all else fails, back to "we lied".

There have been blatent lies told in the past by actual anti-racing activists (that which we are not) This has created somewhat of a bitter attitude which you have undoubetdly already noticed. This is part of the reason they reacted to you all the way they did. They feel everyone believes only the lies and bases their opinion on that alone. They do not take into account the opinions you form with your own mind and you ability to give each story you hear the amount of weight deserves. They tend to take opinions too personal at times, as many of us do at some time or another

These are a very passionate bunch who have had some pretty hard knocks in the past and are just now beginning to make headway with public opinion. Not an easy thing to do when certain undeniable facts still exist, but that's another story all together.

I am only hoping to give you a little better idea of what is behind all of this hoopla so that you are not left with the uncertainty (or maybe even hurt feelings) that I think you have now. At least that's the way I read it.

Greyhound forums are generally (and understandably) moderated, so we have not always had the opportunity to hash things out with the racing folks, yet they are making a concerted effort to work with adoption and improve things within the industry. Although we have debated the same issues over and over again until blue in the face, we still continue to spend way too much time with each other. Probably because of the one thing we do have in common which, as you all know, can never be talked about enough.... our dogs (or pets, whatever the case may be). So that's why at any given time, you might find a fued going on at GreyTalk and you are more than welcome to join in the fun before the thread gets nixed. We love "new blood". LOL

I also want to say that these really ARE the good people in racing. I don't agree with them and they don't agree with me. I think the term for this is "agree to disagree" although we haven't succesfully managed to do that for any length of time. Maybe one day they will come around. LOL

What matters most to me is that we continue to work towards our common goal which is 100% greyhound adoption. I am sure you have already heard about that so I won't go into it.

By the way, I still want to answer K9soul's question about the racing situation in other countries. This is one of the areas I actually know something about LOL

"Jay" from GreyTalk

[aly]

Originally posted by Cinder & Smoke
What do the Pups / Young Dogs get in the way of
"Human" Interaction??

How often (or what percentage of the day) do they receive the
"attention" of a Human?
Does anyone "talk" to them;
give them a pat on the head or a friendly *rub*;
do they ever get a real "Walk on a Leash"?

Many Rescue Sites mention the problem that "typical" rescue Greys
"don't Know How to PLAY" and are fearful of almost any human.

/s/ Phred
.

I was curious about this as well. It sounds as though they get great basic care, but not socialization or interaction. Maybe if they were socialized more as puppies, people would stop thinking that a majority of them are abused. It is a common thing to mistake an under-socialized dog for an abused dog. Sometimes dogs cower away from loud noises, human hands, etc simply because they have not been exposed to them, not because they have been hit or yelled at.

After the explaination, it does sound like farm is the best word to describe what goes on. I guess I just have a problem with bringing so many dogs into this world when so many are dying in shelters and on the streets (not to mention the percentage that are euthanized after racing, whatever percentage that may be). I wish racing were a fun sport for the dogs, and not a means of gambling for the people. If it were for fun, then Greyhounds could be adopted from rescues or shelters to race instead of breeding dogs and leaving them in a kennel until they are a year old and ready to start training.

*edit* I know it is a fun sport for the dogs, but I meant to say I wish it was ONLY used for fun and not profit.

[sherpayluvsgreys]

Hello to you PTers and good to see my GT family as well! I find myself saddened as well as excited about this thread. I think, though, for greyhound owners, it offers a chance to help explain some things about greyhound adoption and the racing industry to those not familiar with it.

I think that greyhound owners are an extremely sensitive group of people. For the majority of retired racing greyhound owners, owning their first grey becomes the beginning of an end, so to speak. Many owners become completely engrossed in what greyhound ownership can mean. It's a life-altering experience to many.

There are so many dynamics to the greyhound. For many, there is the mind-blowing lineage for you to discover. Most greyhounds have family trees that will put most humans to shame. We have websites dedicated to greyhound genealogy and performance. The moment you learn that you can trace your grey's bloodline back to the 1800's, or you first view your grey's past performace lines, you are affected with an intense desire to learn more. Not only about your individual grey, but the industry from which they came.

While I'm only voicing my own opinion, I think most greyhound owners will tell you it's an on going eductional process with an overwhelming amount of information to absorb. People who have been in the industry for decades will tell you that they still learn everyday. I believe what strikes many new greyhound owners first and foremost is the gross abundance of propaganda out there concerning the life of the racing greyhound. Sensationalism at it's best - or worst. Take your pick.

Are there some undersirable sitations out there? Yes, just as there are with any breed. But these are becoming fewer and farther between. What is so exciting is that the greyhound world is in transition, and actually has been for quite some time. But you see, that doesn't make good reading, so that never makes the papers. It's a harsh reality that greyhound folks have sadly become quite accustomed to.

Increasing numbers of adoption groups and racing folks are coming together to fullfill the goal of 100% adoption. The key, we are all discovering, is that working with, instead of against, produces the best win/win situation for all involved. ESPECIALLY the greyhound.

My hope is, as a result of this thread, that non-greyhound people will take the time to learn about the racing greyhound, the industry, and greyhound adoption and form their own educated opinions... not on bias, but fact.

I look forward to browsing through your site, and sharing some of my own life with my two wonderful greyhounds!

[Perfectweather*]

Perhaps I can help with some of your questions......

Puppys on the farm get a lot of attention - afterall, they are puppies and the future of the breed..........Everyday the people or kennel hands or whatever you want to call them feed and water the dogs, clean the runs......There is much interaction on the farm between dogs and humans - since the runs must be weeded along the fence line, fences mended and houses cleaned and re-bedded. Living on a dog farm in the middle of nowhere offers limited entertainment............you make close friends of your dogs.

I would say the least amount of time humans interact with the dogs is when they are in the long runs - from the age of 6 months to say 10 months when they begin lead training and easy, light lure training. Based on my experience, and weighing about 110 pounds, they are just to strong and rowdy to spend much time with...........they cause danger to humans and themselves.

Once they are moved in the kennel training begins in earnest and they are with humans most of the time. They are fed one on one and turned out in small groups four or more times a day. They are handled atleast three times a week for morning work-outs and training. They are handled and spoken to like normal pet dogs and by this time everyone has a name and knows it.........

During turnouts - or group airings - humans are present at all times to prevent trouble among dogs - usually they stand in the middle of the pen and are surrounded by dogs..........

Greyhound pups bound for the track are trained in the art of leash walking just as any other dogs are. Greyhounds should be able to walk on a lead since much of their time at the track and in the track environment depends on them being able to be handled on a leash (we call them leads) in front of a crowd and in most situations. Most greyhounds are excellent leash walkers.

Having spent 25 years training and working with greyhounds, I tend to disagree with your last statement. Greyhounds are amazing amimals because they CAN come from a working environment and easily make the transition to a home animal. They are already on a good schedule which they are used to, they are used to walking on leads and with humans, they are used to being with other dogs and are very social...........They are smart and quick to learn.......attributes which make them so adaptable in the home or at the kennel....

And lastly,yes, they get "real leash walks". Walking is one of the best forms of exercise - dogs are worked for a variety of reasons and one of everyone's favorites is simply taking them for a walk.....while trotting is a dogs natural gait, walking exercises the muscles in the shoulders, hind quarters and neck and back. It's good for humans too!!!

[aly]

Originally posted by Perfectweather*


Having spent 25 years training and working with greyhounds, I tend to disagree with your last statement. Greyhounds are amazing amimals because they CAN come from a working environment and easily make the transition to a home animal. They are already on a good schedule which they are used to, they are used to walking on leads and with humans, they are used to being with other dogs and are very social...........They are smart and quick to learn.......attributes which make them so adaptable in the home or at the kennel....

I didn't say they are all under socialized and I didn't mean to imply that. I just meant that people do jump to conclusions about the ones who are. Although I am not an expert on the racing industry, I do know the breed very well. I have to agree that they are wonderful, graceful, and sweet as pie.

[7up]

The only area where greyhounds lack socialization is with different breeds, large and small dogs, cats, birds, various types of people, big and small, kids, old folks, whatever, along with all the things in the outside world that are an important part of habituation in puppies, while their brain is developing.

Most greyhounds are wonderfully socialized with other greyhounds and with people when they have enought time to devote to them.

Greyhounds tend to be a little aloof and many of them are genetically shy. Some are also spooks. The shy greyhounds are probably the ones that are most effected by the lack of socialization I mentioned above. While the adjustment perioid from track to home is natural and takes a little time to acclimate to, a good number of greyhounds have more than the usual amount of difficulty dealing with the outside world without a lot of stress. Some can take months or years to lose their fears. Most of them do improve with time but will always have problems with certain things they encounter day to day.

I believe the lack of socialization in these greyhounds in particular, is what causes them so much trouble. But even then, they are such love bugs and courageous souls that they steal your heart away just like all the rest and they do manage just fine.

It is amazing that most greys make the adjustment so easily, considering the change in their environment and whatever other factors that may effect it.

Jay

[7up]

"Farm" is a very appropriate word because greyhounds are categorized as livestock animals.

Jay

[Perfectweather*]

Originally posted by aly
I didn't say they are all under socialized and I didn't mean to imply that. I just meant that people do jump to conclusions about the ones who are. Although I am not an expert on the racing industry, I do know the breed very well. I have to agree that they are wonderful, graceful, and sweet as pie.

Yes, people do. People who take an uneducated stance on any issue are somewhat prone to mistakes about said issue.............

One very important fact that must be remembered. A retired track greyhound has spend his entire life - every waking moment with many of his own kind and humans he has come to know and love.............His transition from the farm to the kennel is traumatizing to him - leaving his family of humans for the unknown. He adapts quickly since his routine is all to familiar and his handlers know what he wants and what he expects.

When you take a retired racer from his "track" environment and place him in a home he is lost, confused and totally alone. People who adopt are sometimes so in love and so proud of their dog they want to show them off to everyone right away - perhaps is the dog acts shy or unsure it is because he is....................

Human needs sometimes get in the way of "dog" logic.

[7up]

By the way, I have one of the shy ones I was telling you all about. I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world. He has just about the best manners I have ever seen in a dog and he learns very quickly what to do in order to be a very"good boy".

He just amazes me. I have had him for over 2 years and his stress continues to lessen with each and every day. It is so heartwarming to see him begin to enjoy things for the first time, like smelling things when we walk or holding his head up and looking around instead of being intent on going straight back home. I often wonder what he will be like years from now.

Jay

[GreyhoundDaddy]

Well, now.. I'm one who after being seen in one thread is knwn by a member here as one who "shoots off his mouth"... Oh yeah... I'm the guy who was told by one of your memebers to "go hump your dog"

Man, I love people like you. The kind I'd see in person, give you a wry little smile and keep walking on by.

That said... Care to see some pics of puppies? I've gone and done something that's becoming more and more popular within the greyhound world. It's called "pre-adoption". Meaning, I got to know a breeder/trainer and when she had a broody that had a litter, I fell in love with one of her pups. The breeder/trainer told me that once the pup was done racing ... it could be 3-5 years from now... that the day she comes off the track, she's mine. I'm not the only person, nor am I the first and I certainly wont be the last to go this route. I think you'll find that the people that do this, are commited to these new babies.

Now, I'm going to post a link to a homepage I made for the pup I've pre-adopted that has some pics on teh page itself, the story of her litters birth and some other links including her photo album. All I can do is ask that you look at it with an open mind and realize that everything one reads isn't necessarily so.

Ice Princess's Page

[7up]

Many Rescue Sites mention the problem that "typical" rescue Greys
"don't Know How to PLAY" and are fearful of almost any human.

I wouldn't call it a problem but greyhounds do not usually know how to play (with stuffies for instance), but they sure do manage to develop this talent with little or no help from us. Just supply the stuffy.

Sometimes your existing greyhound will teach the new one and that's always cute to watch.

It also takes the a little time before they will take a treat from your hand. Not like they are afraid, but more because they don't know what to do.

Jay

[aly]

Originally posted by GreyhoundDaddy
Well, now.. I'm one who after being seen in one thread is knwn by a member here as one who "shoots off his mouth"... Oh yeah... I'm the guy who was told by one of your memebers to "go hump your dog"

Man, I love people like you. The kind I'd see in person, give you a wry little smile and keep walking on by.

That said... Care to see some pics of puppies? I've gone and done something that's becoming more and more popular within the greyhound world. It's called "pre-adoption". Meaning, I got to know a breeder/trainer and when she had a broody that had a litter, I fell in love with one of her pups. The breeder/trainer told me that once the pup was done racing ... it could be 3-5 years from now... that the day she comes off the track, she's mine. I'm not the only person, nor am I the first and I certainly wont be the last to go this route. I think you'll find that the people that do this, are commited to these new babies.

Now, I'm going to post a link to a homepage I made for the pup I've pre-adopted that has some pics on teh page itself, the story of her litters birth and some other links including her photo album. All I can do is ask that you look at it with an open mind and realize that everything one reads isn't necessarily so.

Ice Princess's Page

I'm sorry that I offended you because it wasn't my intention.

What I've been trying to say all along (and I'm not sure I've done a good job of it) is that I know you guys care about your dogs. I know there are good breeders and racers who care. I am in no way trying to deny or ignore those facts. It just hurts my heart to know about the ones who don't care though. Just as it hurts my heart to know of the bad breeders of ANY other breed out there.

[GreyhoundDaddy]

Look, nobody in the industry is saying that there arent imperfections. They freely admit it. And by all accounts, they are trying to rectify it. People are encouraged to report things to the NGA if they appear to run amok of guidelines.

I dont purport to know ANYTHING about the industry, just what I've read and investigated myself. And just as in any other facet of life, there are those that go about doing things the right way... no matter the expense... and those that do things improperly. It's a asd fact of life that people can be broken down like this, but, it's unfortunately true.

I've had my hound since February 27, 2004. Like I said, in that short time there's no way I can possibly know very much about the dogs themselves or the racing industry. But, I've taken it upon myself to not take things at face value... to delve deeper in to the "problem" so to speak and educate MYSELF. Which is why I listen to both sides of people's arguments. When I first was looking into adoption...and yes.. ADOPTION...I came across GPL's site and was disgusted at the images they posted. I gues people will do anything for shock value (i.e. pro-lifers holding graphic posters at abortion clinics) to try to get a point across. What it did for me was to force me to go deeper than accepting one side's perspective on things.

As far as the incessant posts about "we're getting bashed over on GT".... nah.. just more exaggeration. As I already noted, I called for the person to be banned from both sites who initiated this whole mess.


Dont sweat my feelings ... Messageboards are not where I get the most out of my life. Say whatever you wish, ask whatever yuo wish.. but, be prepared for answers that you may not like

Anyway, I'd like to strongly urge you all to take a look at that link I provided in my previous post.. And you tell YOURSELF that those pups aren't getting love, attention, playtime, socialization. Read the story of the night of their birth and tell yourself that they arent given the best possible care available... I think you'll find your eyes might open up a bit.