Michael Vick scores again....

**Karen** · 12-30-2010, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by pomtzu

A press conference??? - no, of course not. So how did John Q Public get hold of the phone conversation??? - obviously Eagles Coach Andy Reid felt the need to inform the world of the wonderful decision he made to bring Vick on in the first place, and Mr President is praising his decision. IMO it was still a bad choice for Mr President to acknowledge a particular individual. It really does send a bad message and leaves out praise to others that are more deserving of it.

It was run in Sports Illustrated - Michael Vick, whatever you think of him, is a sports figure. If the President had mentioned anyone else, it likely was either forgotten or left out of the article that ran in a sports publication.

**Cataholic** · 12-30-2010, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by wombat2u2004

It's Alive !!!

It is completely inappropriate to refer to any member of our board by "it". It is demeaning, demoralizing and offensive. I haven't a clue why Karen continues to allow you to do this, but, I for one, won't let it go unnoticed.

**Karen** · 12-30-2010, 06:24 PM

I didn't even understand who or what he was referring to ... I honestly thought he meant the thread itself, being as it was started back in April, then suddenly sprung back to life. As he didn't quote anything or anyone in particular, I kinda puzzled as to what he meant, and didn't see the insult. I will speak to him.

**Cataholic** · 12-30-2010, 06:31 PM

Oh. Come. On. He would have posted that at 539 am yesterday if he were referring to the thread. Instead, he waited until ES posted.

**Vette** · 12-30-2010, 06:33 PM

I think Michael Vick should never be allowed to get his grubby mitts on another dog or any kind of animal for that matter ever again.

did the whole team know about it or participate in it with Michael Vick?

**Grace** · 12-30-2010, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Vette

did the whole team know about it or participate in it with Michael Vick?

What whole team? Vick was not playing for the Eagles when he was arrested for the dog fighting. He was playing for the Atlanta Falcons, and that team is owned by Arthur Blank, co-founder of The Home Depot. Maybe that whole team knew about it - and all the employees of Home Depot - ya think?

If you had read any of the articles written over the past few years about this horrific event, you would have known that the other people involved were boyhood friends of Vick. And they have all been to trial, convicted, and served time.

**Grace** · 12-30-2010, 08:43 PM

It would be a nice change of pace to talk about the dogs - the Vick Dogs. Have any of you read about them - their rescue and redemption?

There is a new book out by Jim Gorant - The Lost Dogs. Parts of it made me physically ill, parts made me cry and parts made me laugh.

Best Friends, out in Utah, took 22 of them. Several have been adopted, a couple can never leave Best Friends. One of those is Georgia - you may have seen her on Ellen. Anyway, if anyone is interested, check out this link.

**Edwina's Secretary** · 12-30-2010, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Grace

Best Friends, out in Utah, took 22 of them.

We saw them and their home at Best Friends when we visited it last year. An incredible and wonderful place.

**Alysser** · 12-30-2010, 09:04 PM

Here's my 2 cents..

Obama shouldn't have said that, especially when there was a chance it could be publicly released. It was in bad taste, but I have to agree with Karen also, how he was not referring significantly to MV, but also about giving second chances. He definitely could have used a better example, but how many other presidents/celebrities have said things similar to this with not as much as a hype? I bet FOX news is having a party over this

.

Do I think he should be back in the NFL? No. But do I think he deserves a second chance? Sure. I'm all for people re-building their lives. I will never like the guy again but you can't change the past. Sure he HAS apologized, I didn't believe a word of it when I saw the video, but what's done is done. HOPEFULLY, in some way he realizes what he has done and will endeavor to be a better person. Redemption won't change the past, he still needs to live with this for the rest of his life - or at least the rest of his football career.

This is worth a public outcry, certainly. But people seem to forget what other players have done too. I am by no means, telling anyone to "get over it", but am just pointing out this type of thing happens quite a bit. Remember Donte Stallworth, sentenced to 30 DAYS for a DUI MANSLAUGTER? 30 days, that's it. I mean, at least Vick got two years. He also got a second chance and is playing on the Ravens if I remember correctly.
http://www.justnews.com/news/19766406/detail.html

As for the Vick dogs, I have been wanting that book for quite awhile. It sounds like a great read. I loved hearing about the successful rehabilitation those animals went thru.

Personally, I loved it when the video aired of Obama calling Kanye West a "jack-ass" for interrupting Taylor Swift during the VMA's last year.

**Grace** · 12-30-2010, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

We saw them and their home at Best Friends when we visited it last year. An incredible and wonderful place.

I envy you. If I had the guts, and were 10 years younger, I would pack up and move to Utah and volunteer at Best Friends for the rest of my life.

**Cataholic** · 12-31-2010, 07:24 AM

Re Best Friends- it is my dream, when J gets old enough, to schedule a 'working vacation' at BF! I

them. I need to make a donation to keep my magazine coming...thanks for the reminder.

**Cataholic** · 12-31-2010, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Alysser

Here's my 2 cents..

Do I think he should be back in the NFL? No. But do I think he deserves a second chance? Sure. I'm all for people re-building their lives. I will never like the guy again but you can't change the past. Sure he HAS apologized, I didn't believe a word of it when I saw the video, but what's done is done. HOPEFULLY, in some way he realizes what he has done and will endeavor to be a better person. Redemption won't change the past, he still needs to live with this for the rest of his life - or at least the rest of his football career.

This is worth a public outcry, certainly. But people seem to forget what other players have done too. I am by no means, telling anyone to "get over it", but am just pointing out this type of thing happens quite a bit. Remember Donte Stallworth, sentenced to 30 DAYS for a DUI MANSLAUGTER? 30 days, that's it. I mean, at least Vick got two years. He also got a second chance and is playing on the Ravens if I remember correctly.
http://www.justnews.com/news/19766406/detail.html

The taking of any life is wrong, to me. Having said that, there is a difference between someone drinking and getting behind the wheels of a car and accidently taking the life of another (it was a manslaughter charge, not a murder charge) then MV, time and again, with 'malice aforethought, torturing these dogs. A big difference. This is not about the value of a human life over an animals life (though, again, to me, they are both precious and not mine to take). This is about a conscious, repeated, thought out act, time and again. Big, big difference in the intent, the mindset, of the defendant.

To give it an example that doesn't involve a loss of any life. To me, it it MUCH worse of a crime when someone spray paints a neighbor's car then it is when someone damages another's car in a car accident. Both cause property damage, but the crime can be treated differently in the system, all because of the mind set of the defendant.

There are former criminals in all walks of life, and I have always believed in paying one's debt to society, and then moving on. I know first hand the difficulties of returning to a 'normal' life. I have a client that was a convicted felon- gun possession in the course of a robbery. He served time- 6 years. He finally found someone that would give him a second chance. He is a stand up guy. I would trust him in my home, around my child, with my money (if I had any..LOL). I don't put him and MV in the same universe. Some crimes are not so much about the act, as they are about the person. MV is, IMO, in that category.

**pomtzu** · 12-31-2010, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Cataholic

The taking of any life is wrong, to me. Having said that, there is a difference between someone drinking and getting behind the wheels of a car and accidently taking the life of another (it was a manslaughter charge, not a murder charge) then MV, time and again, with 'malice aforethought, torturing these dogs. A big difference. This is not about the value of a human life over an animals life (though, again, to me, they are both precious and not mine to take). This is about a conscious, repeated, thought out act, time and again. Big, big difference in the intent, the mindset, of the defendant.

To give it an example that doesn't involve a loss of any life. To me, it it MUCH worse of a crime when someone spray paints a neighbor's car then it is when someone damages another's car in a car accident. Both cause property damage, but the crime can be treated differently in the system, all because of the mind set of the defendant.

There are former criminals in all walks of life, and I have always believed in paying one's debt to society, and then moving on. I know first hand the difficulties of returning to a 'normal' life. I have a client that was a convicted felon- gun possession in the course of a robbery. He served time- 6 years. He finally found someone that would give him a second chance. He is a stand up guy. I would trust him in my home, around my child, with my money (if I had any..LOL). I don't put him and MV in the same universe. Some crimes are not so much about the act, as they are about the person. MV is, IMO, in that category.

With the risk of sounding like I don't have an original thought of my own, and I fall into the "me too/I agree" population - I have to say "me too/I agree".

There's a world of difference between accidental and intentional. Sometimes we look only at the crime itself, and not what is behind it or associated with it. Let the punishment fit the crime, but only after ALL aspects of it have been reviewed.

IMO - Vick got off with a mere slap on the wrist. If he hadn't gotten caught, he'd still be at it.

**Alysser** · 12-31-2010, 08:48 AM

Cataholic, I agree and totally realize that one was by accident and one was intentional. I was merely pointing out that other players have done similar things without such a huge public outcry whenever their name is mentioned. I guess Vick was more popular, therefore people made a bigger deal about it? That, I do not know. To me, what both players did is "unforgivable" but that isn't to say they can't redeem their lives.

And with your last paragraph, I agree 100%. Is MV a bigger scumbag than Stallworth? In most ways, yes. I don't think I would ever hold a human life higher than and animal life, but that's just me. Who are we to do that? But both actions (dog fighting & drinking) were BOTH preventable and I am sure both knew what they were doing at the time. Although, I KNOW Stallworth didn't mean to hurt, yet alone kill anyone. AND that is the difference between the crimes, as you stated, and again I totally agree. I guess I was just reinforcing my belief that he deserves a second chance, but IMO, not in the NFL.

And at the risk of being hated for saying "I agree" again, I am also totally 100% with you on the importance of any life. I feel the exact same way about that.

Pomtzu, he definitely got off way easier than anybody would've liked I'm sure. Unfortunately most people who abuse animals do. Animal Cruelty laws are not very solid, IMO

**pomtzu** · 12-31-2010, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Alysser

Pomtzu, he definitely got off way easier than anybody would've liked I'm sure. Unfortunately most people who abuse animals do. Animal Cruelty laws are not very solid, IMO

I think the fate of all animal abusers should be turned over to all the folks of Pet Talk. They would give more than just a slap on the wrist!!!

BTW - the question you had about MU - granddaughter says it exceeds academically, but the sports teams suck big time!

The campus is great but the food is miserable. You can have your own car on campus with a permit - for a price of course. You either need a car to get around, or have some friends that do. She volunteers at the humane society in town, and a cab costs her $9 if she can't catch a ride with a friend. The good outweighs the bad - it sounds like a place that you would probably like.