Sex abuse in church

[Cataholic]

IMO, raised Protestant, now Pagan, I think this business of celibacy among the clergy of the Catholic Church is inhuman and inhumane. This is not how human beings are built. The survival drives (hunger and sex) are among the strongest in any animal, Homo sapiens sapiens included. Suppress either of these and drastic consequences can result!

If this is so, how come we don't read about this same type of thing about nuns?

Further, while I have no studies to point to, I have read enough articles in the papers/online to realize that all molestation is not done by Catholic priests. Sadly, it is often times a member of one's own extended family.

I just don't buy the 'I am not gettin' any, so I must now go molest a child". It is deviant behavior, not a result of marital deprivation.

[Medusa]

If this is so, how come we don't read about this same type of thing about nuns?

Further, while I have no studies to point to, I have read enough articles in the papers/online to realize that all molestation is not done by Catholic priests. Sadly, it is often times a member of one's own extended family.

I just don't buy the 'I am not gettin' any, so I must now go molest a child". It is deviant behavior, not a result of marital deprivation.

AMEN and SO MOTE IT BE!

[RICHARD]

Bang on old mate....bang on !!!! This is what I have been saying all along.

Maybe not 'bang on'?

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I had to 'laugh' this morning because one of my favorite programs intergrated a story line with as priest as one of the anatagonists.

He took confession from another character and it was then it hit me.

Confession is one of those kinda rituals that is supposed to absolve the sinner of all sin.

Think of three small closets next to each other, the priest sits in the middle and can open a little window that allows the people in the outside boxes to state their 'transgressions' -I love that word - get an absolution with a penalty from the priest and every thing is reset.


You have to do one main prayer and a repeat two others for as many times as a the priest sees fit.

LOL, I'd love to see the 'penalty sheet" that he reads from.

After you finish the penalty phase, you can go Frack Off again, the meter is at zero.

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The priest is supposed to rep the BIG GUY and poses as a go-between to insure god hears you....

So, with that kind of system in place, what's the big deal?

He goes to another priest, cops to his love of little boys, gets his penalty and goes on his merry way......Not only that, it used to be that the priest was supposedly sworn to secrecy-so if you went to him with a set of sins like cheating on your wife with 14 women-no one would ever find out.

The parents of a molested child would probably go complain to the parish first.

The parish gets the drift, the priest confesses and gets moved away from the crime scene and everything is peachy.

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You really cannot blame people who have god on their side.

[Catherinedana]

If this is so, how come we don't read about this same type of thing about nuns?

I was raised Catholic but now have moved into my own realm of religious freedom as an adult. Fortunately, my mother was not devout and I was not forced to go to a Catholic school. While the nuns have not been accused of sexual abuse, I have heard from many family members and friends who attended Catholic school about the cruelty that they faced in the hands of the nuns. Beatings, pulling of hair, vicious verbal abuse, bestowing a derogatory nickname on a child and having all the others call her by it, tripping students walking up the classroom aisle so that they fall and everyone laughs (I heard this one a few times! Seems to be a nun favorite practical joke.

My cousin, who admittedly was a problem child was beaten every day one week by her nun-teacher. She told her mother, who of course was concerned, so mom went to visit the nun-teacher. Nun told mother that E. was a bit of a character, a bit of a trial, but the class and Nun loved her dearly for who she was. Nun would not have considered laying a hand on her! Needless to say, my cousin got a beating from her dad for lying about the nun. Yikes!!

My ex-husband is from Ireland and he attended school run by the Christian Brothers. The boys were abused so badly with beatings and verbal abuse that many of them find themselves damaged still to this day. Many of my ex's problems with self-esteem and communications issues appear to stem from his days in a "Christian/Catholic" school. He had big ears as a child and he said that one day, he was running in the yard and one of the Brothers picked him up by the ears to yell into his face. Ah, there's christian charity for ya!

I did not want to enter this repartee until I saw the remark about the nuns. I myself was screamed at (I mean S C R E A M E D!!! at) by a nun when I was at catachism getting ready to receive confirmation. I was a very shy child and was devistated to be in this position in front of all the other children (I think I dropped a book on the floor, if I remember correctly). I went home hysterical and told my mother what happened and that I did not want to go back. She said she was fine with that and I have been on a different path since that day.

I'm sure that there are folks who have had positive experiences within the Catholic church. I am not one of them.

[RICHARD]

I'm sure that there are folks who have had positive experiences within the Catholic church. I am not one of them.

*raises hand*

Sister Mary Torquemada was everywhere.

Priests took your innocence, Nuns took you to the ground.

Now, I'll say this and only the people who have experienced it will understand that it's not sexist.

There were a few nuns out there that were some screwed up biatches.

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I saw one kid in out class, who had bit my best friend over a dodge ball, get pummeled..

The nun, with her left hand, grabbed the kid by his upper left arm.

She had a wooden pointer in her right hand and proceeded to hit the kid on the back of his thighs/rear with it. As he tried to get away they both spun in a few circles with the nun flailing away the whole time.

It wasn't abuse. It was torture for the kid and the rest of us - She beat the eff out of him in front of the whole classroom.

I remember looking out the window because it was so fricking brutal..

Yeah, he bit someone, but maybe a swat was more in line?

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You know, the best religion may be Scientology after all, those people are to brain dead to start any kind of war.

[kokopup]

Richard

The priest is supposed to rep the BIG GUY and poses as a go-between to insure god hears you....

So, with that kind of system in place, what's the big deal?

He goes to another priest, cops to his love of little boys, gets his penalty and goes on his merry way......Not only that, it used to be that the priest was supposedly sworn to secrecy-so if you went to him with a set of sins like cheating on your wife with 14 women-no one would ever find out.

The parents of a molested child would probably go complain to the parish first.

The parish gets the drift, the priest confesses and gets moved away from the crime scene and everything is peachy.

You really cannot blame people who have god on their side.

I know this is not the religion thread but the fact that Rome has set the Pope up as Father on earth, and Priest can mediate for you to God goes against all Bible writings.

JOHN 14:6 (in various versions)

King James Bible
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

American King James Version
Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.

American Standard Version
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.



This is reading on the subject of Rome putting itself above GOD


http://www.ianpaisley.org/tiara.asp

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[RICHARD]

[QUOTE=kokopup;2252232]Richard


I know this is not the religion thread but the fact that Rome has set the Pope up as Father on earth, and Priest can mediate for you to God goes against all Bible writings.

[QUOTE]

That is the 'pomposity' of it all.

The Roman Catholic religion has decided that they trump god and the law of the land. It's not the religion, per se. It's the people that run it.

Religion is a good thing.

But, most of the time it has to....

Live on it's own and not worry about the religion next door.
Has to take responsibility for the eff ups that ruin the 'experience'.
And just shut up.

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Getting your ear pulled until it pops something inside your head is not a good
way to learn religion.........been there.......

That said?

I am a believer in corporal punishment.

If you were swatted once and told why? Hey, no problem.

Therein lies the question about how hard and how many.

My parents knew that once was enough and the look of displeasure on THEIR faces was enough of a deterrent to keep us in line.

But, that's another thread.....

[Marigold2]

I always wondered two things. Why parents allowed nuns to beat their kids. If a nun beat my kid she would be in the hospital, honest to god she would. That one still confuses me.

Two why nuns were so mean. I think I figured out number two. Sexual frustration. I think the screaming and the hitting and the meaness was their only way of letting go of that sexual build up.

With so many priests being gay, nuns were at a loss. Beating kids with a ruler is kind of Freudian, truly it is.

[wombat2u2004]

I always wondered two things. Why parents allowed nuns to beat their kids. If a nun beat my kid she would be in the hospital, honest to god she would. That one still confuses me.

Two why nuns were so mean. I think I figured out number two. Sexual frustration. I think the screaming and the hitting and the meaness was their only way of letting go of that sexual build up.

With so many priests being gay, nuns were at a loss. Beating kids with a ruler is kind of Freudian, truly it is.

I never sent my kids to Catholic College.....no way !!!!
Too much abuse, sexual or otherwise for me to even consider that.
It's no wonder most Catholics one meets are pretty messed up in the head.

[wombat2u2004]

My ex-husband is from Ireland and he attended school run by the Christian Brothers. The boys were abused so badly with beatings and verbal abuse that many of them find themselves damaged still to this day. Many of my ex's problems with self-esteem and communications issues appear to stem from his days in a "Christian/Catholic" school.

That is exactly the same story my wife has. Her first husband was Irish with the same upbringing.
He was a real looney toon.....he used to get drunk, sit on her, holding her arms to the floor with his knees, and slap her about the face.
Then I came along....and it was bye bye time for Mr. Potato Head and his screwed up life.

[Marigold2]

My kids went to a Lutheran school for a while till I pulled them out.
Prinicple was having an affair with second grade teacher, very nasty.
There were other reasons as well.
When my daughter was 5 or 6 she was in the after school program as I worked.
The kids brought their lunch. Now Alicia has always been one of those people that eats tiny meals, but lots of them. She is not fat or thin, she is just right, she models and does acting, she does not have a weight hang up.
Anyway here is this poor little kid with her lunch. I always packed 5 things in my kids lunch, a fruit, a snack, sandwich, maybe a salad or soup and a drink. This day she had a soup, sandwich, grapes and cookies plus the drink. She eats some of the soup, some of the sandwich, some grapes and starts eating her cookies. The teacher tells her to finish her soup and sandwich, Alicia tells her she is full. Teacher places hand over her thermos and says "if you are full, no soup, no sandwich, no cookies will go in" my brilllalnt daughter says to her teacher "it's my lunch and I will eat what I want" . She had to stand in the corner for three hours.
When I got there and teacher told me what she said I laughted and told her "that is correct, it is her lunch and she can eat the cookies first if she wants and if that is all she wants that is all she needs to eat" . Teacher said "we try and teach our pupils good eating habits". I told her that Alicia could eat what she wanted and from now on maybe I would just pack her cookies, candies and more snacks in her lunch and that she had better NOT be in the corner again for eating her own lunch which I packed.
I was so mad at that teacher. imagine trying to dicate what this poor kid could eat and how much and then putting her in the corner. I put that teacher in her place. Alicia and I still laugh about that.

[Cataholic]

^^ I cannot tolerate hearing stories like that! It makes me so fearful of J being in school. I am sure I would have done the same thing as you. I have this particular hang-up with kids going to the bathroom. At J's school, they have unlimited access to the bathroom. They take the pass and just leave the room. There is only 1 pass for each gender, so, it is one at a time. But, there isn't any asking permission. I am not sure how it will happen later on in the upper grades, but, I really, really, really hope it is still as easy as it is now. His teacher has told me that she finds it teaches the child about responsibility and sees much less abuse of the process this way. Not total lack of abuse, and she does monitor it, but sometimes, kids 'need' an escape for a few minutes. A lot like adults.

I hear these stories about kids being denied access to the potty and it infuriates me.

[caseysmom]

^^ I cannot tolerate hearing stories like that! It makes me so fearful of J being in school. I am sure I would have done the same thing as you. I have this particular hang-up with kids going to the bathroom. At J's school, they have unlimited access to the bathroom. They take the pass and just leave the room. There is only 1 pass for each gender, so, it is one at a time. But, there isn't any asking permission. I am not sure how it will happen later on in the upper grades, but, I really, really, really hope it is still as easy as it is now. His teacher has told me that she finds it teaches the child about responsibility and sees much less abuse of the process this way. Not total lack of abuse, and she does monitor it, but sometimes, kids 'need' an escape for a few minutes. A lot like adults.

I hear these stories about kids being denied access to the potty and it infuriates me.

That happened in first grade for my daughter, my husband had to go to the school with an extra change of clothes. I met with the teacher and we worked it out.

[wombat2u2004]

That happened in first grade for my daughter, my husband had to go to the school with an extra change of clothes. I met with the teacher and we worked it out.

I can remember an incident that happened to me when I was about 8 years old. I was in class and felt really sick. I asked the teacher if I could go outside because I was feeling sick.....she said no....about a minute later I vomited all over the floor. She made me clean it up.

[RICHARD]

I can remember an incident that happened to me when I was about 8 years old. I was in class and felt really sick. I asked the teacher if I could go outside because I was feeling sick.....she said no....about a minute later I vomited all over the floor. She made me clean it up.

Moderation, mate.

You Aussies start young.

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We used to have phy ed once a week and it consisted of a guy in sweat pants coming out and making everyone line up by classes, 1-8 and do warmups, jumping jacks, push-ups.....

You were not allowed to talk during the class. I was standing in front of two idiots who were talking and the 'coach' looks at me and says, "Go back inside, you were talking...." I told him I didn't say anything and he answered, "NOW YOU ARE..."

I went back to my class and had to take the ruler across the hands for being sent back. Boy, was I ticked.....

Most of the time a swat or two wasn't a huge deal. If you were smart, it made you realize that you could not act/be stupid.

There were a few times that the sentence was far worse than the crime.

Our school had lay teachers and nuns.

Some of the nuns were nothing but bullies, they were mean, nasty, brutal and sadistic. And it was always the older ones that were the biggest AHs.

The 'nun dress code' had just changed and the newer crop didn't have to dress like Sister Bertrille. so they were cool and hip. The older ones were really ticked about that they took it out on the kids.

God, those were the days!