Michael Jackson Dead

[blue]

blue, I agree with you.

Les Paul was an innovator, a genius, a creator. His performances were entertaining.

Jackson was an entertainer per se, and grew up in the generation that had a very different star-making machine.

It's a bit of an apple and orange comparison, IMO - Jackson, however fairly or otherwise - commanded worldwide attention and fandom.

Les Paul didn't need a dad to beat him into perfection - he was that already, innately. And I get the feeling he wouldn't have wanted the adulation and being a "star".

The Jackson kids - out-front entertainers, performers, with colour and glitz...like Elvis (who wrote half of one of his own songs). Different path.

A hybrid of the two paths might be found in the Beatles, where showmanship and creative talent both blended well and successfully.

Mr Paul gave us much more then MJ did. Also Mr Paul wasnt creepy.

The Beatles sucked, but thats a different thread.

[Daisy and Delilah]

The Beatles sucked??? OMG!! If I had time I would argue that one for myself. I loved the Beatles!!

I also agree with you, blue. MJ has been given more attention than 50 people put together. The media gathers around what people want to hear. Les Paul was a genius among us. I'm really sorry that Mr. Paul, and others, have not, and never will, get the attention that MJ has had.

You guys are awesome!! Thanks to everybody that explained this to me. We have some great people on this board.

I have often thought about this happening to me. The question that Richard quoted has not been an actual scenario for me but I have taken one pain pill before surgery when that wasn't instructed. Knowing how powerful anesthesia is, I was worried.

With what the doctor has admitted to doing and what Richard explained, it seems no stone has been unturned here and the doctor being charged may be warranted. I am shocked as to all the drugs he gave him and sat there and monitored him. Then it says he went to relieve himself only?? Shouldn't MJ have been showing signs of distress already? It sounds like the doctor was playing with fire. If MJ would have been relaxed enough, the first couple of pills should have knocked him out. That's a lot of drugs to give one skinny man.

Thanks for the affadavit, Candace. That's fantastic!!

[RICHARD]

I was amazed about MJ's height. Never knew he was around six foot tall.


One thing about drugs that are given to put people under for surgery? Some will depress a person's breathing and that is why a person is hooked up to monitors to check on respiratrions and heart rate.

Sounds like they were flying by wire when he gave MJ the drugs.
NO monitors or external ways to keep an eye on MJ if he was having problems breathing, so unless the doc was standing next to him, I doubt
he would have seen MJ in any distress.

I often see Edward asleep and have to really look at him to see if he is breathing!

------------------------

My take on the whole situation?

They had gone thru the process so many times is was nothing to them. I am amazed with the different drugs and how many times they were given, but to them it was as 'normal' as giving and taking aspirins.

We'll see what happens.

[sasvermont]

But homicide, I don't agree. Michael wanted these drugs. He was an addict. I think the doctor was in it for the money, although, I just read he was never paid.

Michael Jackson was a goof ball, for sure. He was also addicted to drugs - many drugs, as the reporting proves. He abused drugs. Plain and simple. So do many other folks and have their doctors been jailed?

We shall see what happens. I really don't think the administering doctor will go to jail - but will no longer practice medicine, if that's what you want to call it when you commit malpractice.

Oh, and by the way, if the good doctor does get put in jail, he seems to be broke anyway so the Jackson family will never see a dime if they do the civil suit thing. If you take away his ability to earn money, it surely seems TOTALLY unlikely they can recover damages.

Assuming the doctor had medical malpractice insurance - there could be some recovering! I bet the insurance policy has some clauses that may exclude criminal activity coverage.........

As the stomach turns.......

It is my opinion that Michael Jackson signed up for this and the doctor was sucked into the situation - for the money, of course. Isn't it always about money?

Ugh!

[Cinder & Smoke]

Michael wanted these drugs.
He was an addict.
I think the doctor was in it for the money,

It is my opinion that Michael Jackson signed up for this and
the doctor was sucked into the situation - for the money, of course.

Isn't it always about money?

Ugh!

Now THAT's a pretty good summary of the whole sorry mess!

[Asiel]

Michael was an addict for years so dying of some overdose isn't surprising. I was reading that he had been telling his close friends that he wanted to die, he didn't feel he could cope after the accusations of child molestation came out.
The only ones I can feel sorry for here are those poor kids - God help them if they fall into the hands of Joe Jackson. He's the real devil's advocate here and if not for him MJ might still be alive.

[Daisy and Delilah]

Yes, he did want the drugs. That makes a huge difference. As I said before, that's enough drugs to kill a horse. I can't imagine how many drugs MJ must have been doing over the years. He had built up such a tolerance.

Almost 6 feet tall? Wow. I had no idea. He looks so small on camera to me.


It will never cease to amaze me how much of the media has put all the blame on the doctor. They act like Micheal was an innocent victim?? It's bizarre.

[pomtzu]

It will never cease to amaze me how much of the media has put all the blame on the doctor. They act like Micheal was an innocent victim?? It's bizarre.

OK - my 2 cents worth here. It's all about the almighty dollar. Whether the doctor ever got paid or not isn't the issue - it was what MJ promised him for his illegal services.

Money talks!!! If you or I or any average Joe demanded what MJ demanded (and received) from this, and probably many more doctors, do you think we would get it?? Absolutely not! This is just a case of a greedy doctor giving MJ what he wanted, because the price was right. If Dr X had any ethics and refused to provide him with whatever drugs he demanded, regardless of the money he stood to gain, then there was always Dr Y or Z just waiting in the wings and more than willing to accommodate him.

So do I blame MJ or the doctor? Both actually - but the doctor more so. MJ was an addict - he was sick - he was desperate. Yes - he should have sought help for the addiction, not someone to add to an already explosive situation.

Propofol has no place outside of a hospital for any reason whatsoever. It's probably even illegal outside of a hospital setting, but don't quote me on that please. For this doctor to be administering this to MJ at home, is ludicrous. That whole scenario just blows my mind! And on top of all the other drugs that had been given in the few short hours before this - unbelievable!!!!

I heard one doctor that was interviewed, say that MJ had enough drugs in his system to take down an elephant........

What a tragic ending - and all because of $$$$$.

[RICHARD]

Almost 6 feet tall? Wow. I had no idea. He looks so small on camera to me.

I have seen that he was 5'10" - 5'11" and weighed about 120!

[Daisy and Delilah]

I have seen that he was 5'10" - 5'11" and weighed about 120!

OMG!!! He has always looked like a beanstalk.

Ellie, you're so right. Some great points I hadn't thought about. Greed greed and more greed.

[cassiesmom]

Money talks!!! If you or I or any average Joe demanded what MJ demanded (and received) from this, and probably many more doctors, do you think we would get it?? Absolutely not!

Definitely not. I heard on the news that the doctor was medicating him every hour through the night with stronger and stronger drugs ... Ativan, then Versed -- which is also a drug rarely used away from hospitals or surgical centers -- then the Diprivan. Only 25mg of Diprivan. Hello? In addition to what he already had on board? The doctor needed to stand his ground and stop giving MJ more and more drugs.

[momcat]

There's blame all the way around, unfortunately. MJ was going to get his "fix" any way he could. Word has it that he was using prescription meds prescribed for members of his entourage. If these people knew and/or were supplying him is something we may never know. The doctor said he was concerned about the meds MJ was taking and was trying to wean him off the anesthetic. If MJ's addiction was known to the doctor, why did doctor not put him in rehab or some kind of treatment?
The human body can develop a resistance to drugs when taken for an extended period of time. I can't help but wonder if MJ was drugging for so long the beneficial effects of his prescriptions were lost. There's also the question of drug interaction, he sounds like he was a walking pharmacy!
I always thought MJ was way overrated. But it's sad things have come to this. My hope is that someday soon Michael will be allowed to rest in peace.

[carole]

As far as i am concerned i think the Doctor should be charged, he knew exactly what he was doing, if he was any kind of doctor with ethics he would have refused, sure MJ would have been able to get them somewhere, but whatever the doctor does need to be held accountable for his actions in my opinion.

Whether MJ was an addict as suggested, i still think it just so sad, to see his life wasted like that, regardless of how different he was, he was still a human being ,and yes his children are the ones who are really suffering here.

To be honest i had never heard of les paul,Blue maybe you should start a thread about him, if it bothers you that MJ is getting so much attention in this thread, but after all this thread is about him isn't it?

[kitten645]

I understand that it is being ruled a homicide by the coroner. That means he did not die of natural causes. (duh! ). It is not the same as the legal term Homicide. That's what I heard on the radio. It doesn't mean there will be a prosecution but I suspect the family will go after someone..anyone to blame rather than MJ himself.
Claudia

[RICHARD]

I have noticed that when a family member of a famous person dies, they always want to deflect the 'bad news' if the person has died of something hinky.

David Carradine probably died because he was into 'alternative' sex practices. The families are-justifiably so- very concerned/intereted because of public perception/Insurance/family concerns-so they want to keep his memory and status as crystal clean as they can.