Firearms. Yea or Nay?

[Edwina's Secretary]

So far this weekend we have another shooting on a college campus -- two dead one wounded -- this domestic shooting of a woman, her son and grandson...and this poor boy shot accidently while under adult supervision at a gun show. I also see in this thread the admission from a gun enthusiast that she practices gun safety "90% of the time."

Sparky you say it happens alot that people are saved by someone "producing a gun." Could you give us a couple of examples?

Weren't you concerned about a bank robbery with a shooting last week? Was anyone saved there by "producing a gun?"

[Lady's Human]

Try FBI crime stats, John Lott, ad nauseum.

ES, this has been brought up before, you never choose to believe the stats, why even bother posting?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Perhaps for the same reason you need to attack me every time I do post?

Would those be the same stats you promised about the economic makeup of the military but never delivered?

[Lady's Human]

Attack?

No, Sara, I haven't attacked you.

I can flame, as well as anyone, but I haven't done it here, as I respect most of the posters on the website, and if I had the Mod would hammer me quicker than anyone on the board.

The Lott and FBI crime stats have been discussed and posted before, and you choose not to believe them, as you do with any stats that don't conform to your view of the world, regardless of the source.

The military stats were an issue we were discussing in PM a couple of weeks ago, frankly, I forgot about it. Try Army Times, they normally do an annual survey and publish it.

[RICHARD]

How many people die in B&A accidents? Drown while fishing?

The accident was unfortunate-why was an 8 year old allowed to shoot a
SMG anyway?

I started with small caliber, long rifles, probably would or could have shot myself in the foot-but letting a child shoot something that uncontrolable is the fault of the father.

I hope the laws change to allow children to learn gun safety, but with smaller caliber, long guns, not the 'cool guns' they see used on TV or in the media.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Attack?

No, Sara, I haven't attacked you.

I can flame, as well as anyone, but I haven't done it here, as I respect most of the posters on the website, and if I had the Mod would hammer me quicker than anyone on the board.

The Lott and FBI crime stats have been discussed and posted before, and you choose not to believe them, as you do with any stats that don't conform to your view of the world, regardless of the source.

The military stats were an issue we were discussing in PM a couple of weeks ago, frankly, I forgot about it. Try Army Times, they normally do an annual survey and publish it.

I have never seen any statistics posted here on the use of guns to prevent crimes. Sorry. I just haven't. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

I have seen statistics on the higher risk to those who live in homes with guns than homes without guns. As well as other anti-gun stats. I suspect you would have the same reaction to me saying such stats exist as I have to your statement about stats I truthful do not ever recall seeing. Probably the first thing you would do is question the source of the statistics. Then you would go into a long winded explanation of why they are all wrong and only yours are right.

Then you would call me a barnyard animal.

You are at least consistent in your behavior!

[Edwina's Secretary]

And a question LH...when was the last time you agreed with statistics that did not support with your political position?

Was there ice involved?

[sparks19]

So far this weekend we have another shooting on a college campus -- two dead one wounded -- this domestic shooting of a woman, her son and grandson...and this poor boy shot accidently while under adult supervision at a gun show. I also see in this thread the admission from a gun enthusiast that she practices gun safety "90% of the time."

Sparky you say it happens alot that people are saved by someone "producing a gun." Could you give us a couple of examples?

Weren't you concerned about a bank robbery with a shooting last week? Was anyone saved there by "producing a gun?"

I was mostly worried about the high speed CHASE lol... and thanked GOD my husband wasn't on the road during that time. The robbers did not kill anyone (although they very well could have with the high speed chase)... the "shooting" you speak of were the State Troopers taking out one of the robbers that pointed a gun at them... so yeah I guess you could say the troopers lives were saved by producing their guns and taking that b@stard out.

Luckily our Governor just passed down harsher punishments for criminals who commit violent gun crimes... LIFE... NO parole... possibly death pentaly. About time someone started blaming the CRIMINALS instead of the law abiding citizens that are just trying to protect themselves

I can think of examples in my own life where people I know have saved themselves by producing a weapon.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=38726

http://www.sptimes.com/News/081501/T...ullets_h.shtml

http://www.sptimes.com/News/080901/T...r_shot_d.shtml

I'm also trying to find a good NEWS link that does take you to a bunch of other links to read the story... I do have a link for a first hand account from the family but I'm sure that own't mean much to you....

here it is anyway...
http://www.savedbyagun.com/our_story.html

this family had been stalked for years by this man and he went on a rampage and the police suspected he MIGHT be coming and notified the family but no other help was offered. Sure enough the stalker came to their home with a bullet proof vest on to "settle his score". the husband had prepared for the worst and had his weapon just in case. Their stalker came in shooting and and the husband shot back and wounded him which then made the stalker run away... he was later captured a couple miles away and taken to jail.

Now... I know what you are going to say "If it weren't for guns none of these would have happened" but that's not entirely true... if it weren't for CRIMINALS none of these stories would have happened.

As a law abiding citizen I will not have the right to protect my daughter taken away because of CRIMINALS or stupid people. YOu don't have to like it but you sure aren't going to change my mind about it.

[Lady's Human]

No, there wasn't ice involved, and I've never accused you of being a barnyard animal.

Nice attempt to smear, ES, but it just isn't going to work. The Lott studies and FBI stats (raw statistical data from the FBI, not massaged by someone) have been discussed, you poo-poo'd the data.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Nice try LH...look it up in your dictionary. Biddy is a barnyard animal.

And I am still waiting for your high moral indignation at the denigation of a candidate's speech pattern. Being as how you take great offense at discussion of non-issue -- personal type stuff.

Yeah...right.

[sparks19]

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

* Americans use firearms to defend themselves from criminals at least 764,000 times a year. This figure is the lowest among a group of 9 nationwide surveys done by organizations including Gallup and the Los Angeles Times. (16b)

* In 1982, a survey of imprisoned criminals found that 34% of them had been "scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim." (16c)



* Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns in 1976. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%. (1)

[sparks19]

Oh good lord... now this is just getting ridiculous.

Why don't you just go meet at the monkey bars after school (no teachers) and settle this schoolyard nonsense like most kids.

and lets get back to the debate.

[Lady's Human]

Give it up, Sara. You're flailing and failing.

There hasn't been a discussion in here involving firearms and gun control which you haven't inserted yourself into, and you remember remarks made by people months, sometimes years after the fact, yet you can't remember something as central to the discussion as FBI raw statistical data and the Lott studies.

As to Biddy, the colloquial definition is:

biddy
Noun
pl -dies Informal a woman, esp. an old gossipy one

which is the definition I was clearly using in the earlier discussion.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sorry Joe. I think that is passive -aggressive behavior you are exhibiting!

Telling me I am failing and flailing because you don't want to answer a question!

Okee dokee!

Sparky is playing nice. Why can't you?

[Lady's Human]

What question would that be, Sara?