Mr. Biggles is being put to sleep tomorrow

[king2005]

I'm not going to go through the whole rat thread all over again. That got me and many others very upset and you know it. I don't seem to recall you ever mentioning he wasn't yours, perhaps I did indeed miss that, but anyway, where I come from at least, you can not legally put a pet down without the owner's consent.

I just hope that this time Mr. Biggles is luckier than Grissim.

And please stop trying to spy on us all on gabbly. If you really feel that this forum isn't right for you, then that's entirely your decision and no-one will interfere with that.

Your the one that brought it up not me.

I did state I was not his owner & never was. Thats why I wasn't able to have him PTS sooner. I had to get a hold of the owner & such, as par of our verbal contract.


What the heck is Gabbly??

What on earth are you talking about??
I didn't post anything about saying this forum isn't right for me? I said I'm not a chatty person & I use the site as a resource, not to play games like guess the pet, etc. Please stop making up things, as its easy for people to go back in this thread to see I didn't post what you said I did.. sheesh

[Catty1]

Lori - what options would you recommend?

Biggles is not allowed to be rehomed. NOT. By the shelter.

And it seems Jess was misled about the reason the dogs were returned. She stressed no aggression - which is necessary because Jess and Chad have their own things to deal with.

And the shelter lied.

I hope Chad saw a doctor for his wound and is up on his tetanus shots.

Many pets here live in far from perfect homes, so let's not start pointing fingers, ok?

I have been on meds thru my life, Lori - and will be for the rest. It is for clinical depression. It is when conditions like this are NOT treated that trouble happens - and Jess is getting help, as is Chad.

I think they could have dogs again - but no more "returned" dogs.

C

[carole]

you know i do understand your decision, i just feel it is very sad, and i guess i am just hoping there is a better solution, please don't have you mind so set,just maybe somewhere out there , there is a better deal for Biggles,you are dealing with a situation i certainly donot envey, and because of that i respect your feelings,but by the same token, i just cannot help but be a little optimistic that maybe, just maybe, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Whatever happens Jess, i hope the decision you make is the right one for you and Biggles,I know you are not taking this lightly,and for those who feel she is,please remember you are not living her life, I feel for all parties concerned in this awful situation,it is tragic really.

[Kfamr]

I don't think some of you are reading or fully comprehending Jess' posts.

-Legally, Mr. Biggles cannot be rehomed.
-Legally, if Jess takes Mr. Biggles back to the HS - Bear has to be returned as well.
-While Bear & Mr. Biggles have been returned several time before, and neither of them would be appealing to the everyday person, most likely both of thier lives will be taken away.
-Chad - a man she lives with, NOT in a relationship with - could lose his life if he were attacked again.

I'm not sure exactly where I stand because I wasn't there. At the same time, Simba bit my mom twice the first day we had him, but he's still here.
This whole thing just makes me sad, for Mr. Biggles and the humans involved.

I wish Mr. Biggles would be able to visit with a behaviorist - but it doesn't seem that is an option for Jess as she isn't the only one in control of these dogs. This whole thing just makes me sad, for Mr. Biggles and the humans involved.

I believe a lot of this may be caused by the facts stated in the thread she made in General. Her and Chad both need help - they are trying to recieve this help, and hopefully in the long run everyone will be "okay." No one is perfect, though.

[Lori Jordan]

New York Animal Precinct (ASPCA) - 8 million people, 5 million animals, says so right in their introduction to the show.

According to their website ...

14 uniformed and plainclothes officers investigate more than 4,000 cases per year.

In 2000, over 33,000 calls and inquiries were received by HLE (Humane Law Enforcement) of which 4,262 were cruelty complaints for investigation. There were 55 arrests made, 30 summonses issued and 537 animals seized.


According to the ASPCA website...

No government institution or animal organization is responsible for tabulating national statistics for the animal protection movement.


Approximately 8 million to 12 million companion animals enter animal shelters nationwide every year, and approximately 5 million to 9 million are euthanized (60 percent of dogs and 70 percent of cats). Shelter intakes are about evenly divided between those animals relinquished by owners and those picked up by animal control. These are national estimates; the percentage of euthanasia may vary from state to state.


More than 20 percent of people who leave dogs in shelters adopted them from a shelter. (Source: NCPPSP)

Five out of ten dogs in shelters and seven out of ten cats in shelters are destroyed simply because there is no one to adopt them.


According to ASPCA of New York also...

New York

Regulating Authority/Agency (for municipal animal shelters; for private shelters)
State Commissioner of Agriculture and Markets. See N.Y. Agric. & Mkts. § 108 (1999)

Adoption Procedures
- 1. The legislature finds that the uncontrolled breeding of dogs and cats in the state results in an overabundance of puppies and kittens. More puppies and kittens are produced than responsible homes for them can be provided. This leads to many of such animals becoming stray and suffering privation and death, being impounded and destroyed at great expense to the community and constituting a public nuisance and health hazard. It is therefore declared to be the public policy of New York state that every feasible humane means of reducing the production of unwanted puppies and kittens be encouraged.



Puppy or not, do you want to be the one to let one or more of those 537 animals stay in homes of neglect and abuse because their isn't the money or cage space available because of one agressive dog that may or may not be adoptable?

Not at all that is not what i am trying to say,I agree with you but a 4 month old puppy i find that obserd!The point im trying to get across is that if they worked with that puppy,The lady is on staff that takes care of that dept,He passed everything but the food agressive,Now all they did was started to pout....That puppy lost his life because he was hungry i dont care what the numbers are that women was not a dog behavioralist obviously!

[king2005]

Lori - what options would you recommend?

Biggles is not allowed to be rehomed. NOT. By the shelter.

And it seems Jess was misled about the reason the dogs were returned. She stressed no aggression - which is necessary because Jess and Chad have their own things to deal with.

And the shelter lied.

I hope Chad saw a doctor for his wound and is up on his tetanus shots.

Many pets here live in far from perfect homes, so let's not start pointing fingers, ok?

I have been on meds thru my life, Lori - and will be for the rest. It is for clinical depression. It is when conditions like this are NOT treated that trouble happens - and Jess is getting help, as is Chad.

I think they could have dogs again - but no more "returned" dogs.

C

Chad is scared to death of Dr.s after he faught for his life with the flesheatting in his arm & went through Chemo. Hes a really sensitive guy when it comes to harm to his body(hes a very clean guy). He knows if the wound gets infected he will go to the ER, but I have to go with him kicking & screaming (not litterly but you get the point).

I'm treating his wound with peroxid & polysporn. Cause it was bleeding & that needed to be taken care of first, we could have exposed him to extra bacteria by adding a cloth & an ice pack to help stop the bleeding...

The second I see him after work, I'll be looking it over again. If it looks worse then last night (esp the swelling) then I'll take him to the ER cause it could be the flesheatting starting under his skin again.

[Miss Z]

Your the one that brought it up not me.

I did state I was not his owner & never was. Thats why I wasn't able to have him PTS sooner. I had to get a hold of the owner & such, as par of our verbal contract.


What the heck is Gabbly??

What on earth are you talking about??
I didn't post anything about saying this forum isn't right for me? I said I'm not a chatty person & I use the site as a resource, not to play games like guess the pet, etc. Please stop making up things, as its easy for people to go back in this thread to see I didn't post what you said I did.. sheesh

Right, well I'm not going to argue with you again. I'm WAY too tired today from a very busy day and I've had enough with the way that you seek attention in threads like this then twist what everyone, including yourself, says! This will be my last post on one of your threads, for sure.

First off, I never denied I was the one that mentioned it, but MY intent was to keep it as a side-comment and as a comparison, not to delve right into all that upset again. Now, THAT was your part in it.

Well, all I can say about the gabbly incident is that you must have some sort of little side-kick running around on gabbly. I hope that they aren't coming back again. You never posted anything publically about wanting to leave, either you or this 'mysterious gabber' said it in the gabbly chat. I NEVER make things up for attention, what would be the point? To lose credibilty and the great friends I have here? Pfft.

I am not an argumentative person in the slightest and threads like this makes my head buzz, but I will stick up for what I think is not right. Sometimes, things like this make me seriously consider leaving PT, at times like this I remember all my friends here, but this time its toed the line.

I might take a break for a few days. Don't expect me back too soon. I'm sorry for those who have to read this argument, I know it upsets everyone and many of you may be annoyed with me (and king2005) now, but I had to express how this makes me feel.

I'm done with this insanity.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

I really feel sorry for Mr. Biggles...I realize that points made that you can't rehome him, etc, etc, but it doesn't seem like you tried any kind of behavior modification with him, or talked to your vet (which I see people mentioning, yet I haven't her King2005 say anything about- but maybe the story will change later).

I don't see why Chad owns dogs if he will die from a dog bite- that doesn't make sense. It also doesn't make sense that you chose to hide the first bite from him if he could die over it...if that's the case, YOU were putting his life at risk then. And, now that it has become more serious Mr. Biggles is the one to suffer.

[sprokett]

i feel for you Mr. biggles

[Lori Jordan]

Lori - what options would you recommend?

Biggles is not allowed to be rehomed. NOT. By the shelter.

And it seems Jess was misled about the reason the dogs were returned. She stressed no aggression - which is necessary because Jess and Chad have their own things to deal with.

And the shelter lied.

I hope Chad saw a doctor for his wound and is up on his tetanus shots.

Many pets here live in far from perfect homes, so let's not start pointing fingers, ok?

I have been on meds thru my life, Lori - and will be for the rest. It is for clinical depression. It is when conditions like this are NOT treated that trouble happens - and Jess is getting help, as is Chad.

I think they could have dogs again - but no more "returned" dogs.

C

Hi Catty,How have you been doing?

Ok First The dog obviously in unstable due to his past or the present situation he is in,Not one of us can say what is going on in that home,I can appear to be an animal lover,But no one knows what goes on behind closed doors right? in reality it is true.

The dog needs some training,If these dogs have been bounced around in homes who knows what they have been through,Now as i have read Bear is fine?
Dogs do not come agressive overnight as we all know,Somthing has happend that will probably be let out,And there is a million things to pin point why he is doing these things,What if Chad did something,When do dogs bite???? Everyone asks there self that Question,I do not believe we are getting the full truth.I think something has happend in that home,Only time will tell!

As to what i suggest.Getting that dog some kind of help,Classes whatever it takes,These dogs most likely have been through the ringer,Giving up is not an option in my books,I dont care how scared Chad is what if he did something,Would it be fair if Biggles was PTS over something he had no control over.
There is alot of people with small dogs on here ,Not all but some are nippy,My daughter works down the road at a kennel,She has been nipped by more poodles than anything,But it is taken into consideration they are on edge there in surroundings they are not sure of,And the big one ,There not at home,But that does not give the right to the Kennel owner to put them all down ! Something needs to be done,ill say i think these dogs are with two unstable people.They deserve better,I cannot make up anyones mind but....
We are all intilted to our opinions there is alot of people that are trying to guide them,But there minds are made up whether we like it or not.

[king2005]

I don't think some of you are reading or fully comprehending Jess' posts.

-Legally, Mr. Biggles cannot be rehomed.
-Legally, if Jess takes Mr. Biggles back to the HS - Bear has to be returned as well.
-While Bear & Mr. Biggles have been returned several time before, and neither of them would be appealing to the everyday person, most likely both of thier lives will be taken away.
-Chad - a man she lives with, NOT in a relationship with - could lose his life if he were attacked again.

I'm not sure exactly where I stand because I wasn't there. At the same time, Simba bit my mom twice the first day we had him, but he's still here.
This whole thing just makes me sad, for Mr. Biggles and the humans involved.

I wish Mr. Biggles would be able to visit with a behaviorist - but it doesn't seem that is an option for Jess as she isn't the only one in control of these dogs. This whole thing just makes me sad, for Mr. Biggles and the humans involved.

Gah I keep forgetting that people on this board don't know who Chad (I live with him & his husband) is, thats for pointing that out. Someone else brought up the name Rob. That wasn't even funny, my heart sank when I read that cause not once did I say Rob.. nor do I want to think about him.

If we knew he was agressive we never would have taken then, as its too risky with Chad. We spent 5hrs at the shelter making sure we got the right dog. We honestly tried to pick the ones for our home & with issues we could correct.

[Catlady711]

Not at all that is not what i am trying to say,I agree with you but a 4 month old puppy i find that obserd!The point im trying to get across is that if they worked with that puppy,The lady is on staff that takes care of that dept,He passed everything but the food agressive,Now all they did was started to pout....That puppy lost his life because he was hungry i dont care what the numbers are that women was not a dog behavioralist obviously!

Regardless of age, a 4 month old has to have a home just as much as an older dog. Agression in a puppy is just as serious as an older dog. And since I've watched the show quite a bit myself, I do believe that all the dogs they test, they FIRST do a health check on and get the dog back up to proper weight before they attempt the testing. These are professionals and have training to help them help the dogs.

Whether you agree or dissagree with the woman's abilities as a dog behavioralist, it's her job and she's doing it the best she can to help those that she can and to protect people and other animals. If you think you can do better I'm sure there are a TON of shelters that would love for you to voulunteer your services to them to help those you can, and I'm sure the animals would thank you gratefully for it.

Given the lack of good homes available, the number of rescues/siezures they have, the amount of money and cage space available, they simply can only put x amount of time, effort, and money into any one dog, and it's usually based on whether or not that dog has a good chance of being adopted. The numbers are a fact and cannot be avoided regardless of sentiment.

They simply do not go around euthanizing animals without a very good reason. The name of the organization is the ASPCA which stands for the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. It's simply a sad fact of life that some have to be euthanized because of overpopulation. It is simply impossible to save every single animal out there, which is why they work so hard on educating the public on proper care, and spaying/neutering.

[Catty1]

Jess - when was Chad's last tetanus shot? That's my only concern.

How much is a behaviourist going to cost? And where will Biggles stay?

For those who missed it, Chad went through a nasty bout with flesh-eating disease, chemo (I remember that thread)- and the reason they took so long to find dogs with no aggression is because a bite literally can kill Chad if another infection sets up.

He is now understandably terrified to be in the same house with Biggles.

I am surprised no one is blasting the shelter because they apparently lied about this. Jess, did you find out if they did lie?

In any case, Jess and Chad have their hands full with a human "behaviouralist", and a dog they were told was not aggressive.

Again, it's between Jess and the vet - if the vet has any bright ideas, that would be great.

Take care all.

[Taz_Zoee]

People have been saying the shelter lied. I am wondering if the people who brought them back last didn't lie....just to save Mr B's life. Not that that would be okay, but ya know what I mean?
Regardless, someone lied and it could have cost Chad his life and now it is costing Mr Biggles his life.

[king2005]

Jess - when was Chad's last tetanus shot? That's my only concern.

How much is a behaviourist going to cost? And where will Biggles stay?

For those who missed it, Chad went through a nasty bout with flesh-eating disease, chemo (I remember that thread)- and the reason they took so long to find dogs with no aggression is because a bite literally can kill Chad if another infection sets up.

He is now understandably terrified to be in the same house with Biggles.

I am surprised no one is blasting the shelter because they apparently lied about this. Jess, did you find out if they did lie?

In any case, Jess and Chad have their hands full with a human "behaviouralist", and a dog they were told was not aggressive.

Again, it's between Jess and the vet - if the vet has any bright ideas, that would be great.

Take care all.

It was a couple months ago, so hes good in that department.

I don't think I could find out if they lied.. I'm sure the other people who took them home, prob. lied & said it was Bears meds, cause giving her her meds is a joke.

Saddly I can't do squat regardless what the vet says. Mr. Biggles has to go.. if I give him up for attacking, he'll be PTS alone with strangers... If i go in with him, then I can atleast be with him, to make the passing easier. Its the least i can do in this horrible situation.