Walking frustrations

**Cincy'sMom** · 04-06-2002, 09:08 PM

I am getting really frustrated trying to teach Cincy to walk right on a leash. I know it takes time and patience, but I am not sure what to try next...
I have practiced with her. (we have taken puupy kindergarten, and puppy 2). I don't let her go forward til the leash is loose. I use treats to keep her in position. She does great in the yard but then, we go to the sidewalk...
I have tried a premier collar. She still pulls. Next, I got a Halti. She tried to so hard to pull it off she scraped her nose. So I tried a harness. She is still pulling a lot with that.
I am not sure what to do next. She is only 6 months. Do I just need to give it more time and work? Should I try something else? I have heard gentle leaders are made better then Halti's and seem to fit the muzzle better. Should I try this?
I would be interested to hear people' opinions on these methods, and the prong collars. I am reluctant to try one, but I have heard good things for strong pullers.

Sadie was a puller to start, but once I tried the Halti with her, she improved so quickly. I know all dogs are different and I shouldn't expect the same from Cincy, but it is still frustrating

**Pam** · 04-06-2002, 09:18 PM

My Bella is a puller too. She is only 35 lbs. but could pull me down the street with no problem at all. The obedience school where we took our last two dogs emphasized the choker collars and they worked very well for them. Bella is another story. She pulls and gags and coughs and seems to not mind that she is cutting off her air supply. She is like Cincy because she walks just fine in the yard. Walking around the neighborhood is quite a challenge. I'm sorry that the Halti didn't work for you. I bought one about 2 weeks ago and found that it turned her into a completely different dog. Before we even reached the end of my driveway she had the idea. She really put up a fight putting it on though. I do hope that you can find something that will work because it is so frustrating to want to spend time walking with your dog and it winds up being not so enjoyable after all. Maybe Carrie or Dixie have some thoughts...

**slleipnir** · 04-06-2002, 10:44 PM

My old dog rufus, when he was younger also pulled. He'd almost seem to be strangling or something, he has a weak windpipe. I got him a harness which seems to work, but hes also old now.
for my other dog, i started off using a pinch collar. It works really good to keep them from pulling, and to make them pay attention. But after (I had to use it for a obediance class) using it a while, I started to hate it more. It seems so cruel to me. The ppl tell me it its better then a flat collor cause it doesnt choke, but instead pinches a little to get the attention. I don't know if thats true, but I don't like it, and now use a gental leader. It works really well. But she doesn't like it, she tries to pull it off any time she can. The ppl i got it from said it takes time to get used to it, but she hasn't yet. Other dogs seem to be used to it, so I guess Jo just doesn't like it. From what I've seen her pawing at it, she can't get it off if its on right.

**aly** · 04-06-2002, 10:51 PM

I would give the Halti a chance. Put it on Cincy while she's in the house and just get her used to wearing it. When she seems more comfortable with wearing it, start taking her out with it on. I reallly, really, really, really hate prong (and choke and pinch) collars and hope you don't have to resort to one. I would recommend giving it more time and patience like you already have been doing. It sounds like you're doing all the right things.

Try having her sit calmly before you put her leash and/or collar on for a walk. If she gets antsy and bouncy, stop putting the leash on and don't start to put it back on until she's calm. This is going to take a lot of patience at first but she will eventually get the picture she needs to be calm for you to put the leash on and take her outside. After the leash is on, if she bolts for the door, just stand there and ignore her. Don't proceed with the walk until she sits calmly for you. The first few times you do this, there is going to be a lot of stop and go but hopefully she'll get the picture

**shais_mom** · 04-07-2002, 12:26 AM

I bought a no pull harness for Shaianne and it turned her into a different dog. So I found one for Keegan for $10 at Walmart. It fits around underneath their front legs and pulls on it when she pulls to hard. Works pretty good.

**anna_66** · 04-07-2002, 08:25 AM

In training with Roxey we used a choker. But all that seems to do is "choke" her! So, we tried a prong collar. WOW! We tried it in school, with the teacher showing us how to use it, and the difference is unbelievable. She didn't even try to pull, like she knew it was there, so she never even tried. I personally used to think it was cruel, but it's only in the way you use it. If it's used right it's a good training tool, if not, it just hurts the dog. But I read that regular choke collars can cause trauma on the windpipe, and I don't want that! Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in

**Stenograsaurus** · 04-07-2002, 08:44 PM

I also used the no pull harness and I am very impressed with it. It sounds like the one shais mom uses. I am able to walk my two dogs (Husky and Shepherd), at 80 pounds a piece, at the same time. When I used to walk just one, I always had to make a trip to the chiropractor to straighten my back out. Now I walk both of them with ease!!! We even had a squirrel run in front of us and I held them back.

**Logan** · 04-07-2002, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Stenograsaurus
I also used the no pull harness and I am very impressed with it. It sounds like the one shais mom uses. I am able to walk my two dogs (Husky and Shepherd), at 80 pounds a piece, at the same time. When I used to walk just one, I always had to make a trip to the chiropractor to straighten my back out. Now I walk both of them with ease!!! We even had a squirrel run in front of us and I held them back.

I think walking two is really easier on the back, better balance or something. I walk Honey and Lilly together all the time, holding one leash in each hand. Problem is it looks like I'm playing a great game of Twister with them as they pass back and forth and get tangled up!! LOL!!!

**mugsy** · 04-07-2002, 09:30 PM

We used the pinch collars after we heard and read from many different sources that choke collars can damage the dog's esophogas (sp??? and me a teacher of science!! lol). I've tried the pinch collar on myself (yes, I'm a weirdo) and it hurt a lot less than a choke did...it really just was a little annoying. It made a world of difference when we tried it with Jazzy (one of the Danes)...she walks like a regular lady when she has it on and a holy terror when she doesn't. I've heard wonderful things about the Gentle Leader too, but then my mom got one for Eddie (the terror little Jack Russell) and she had to return it 3 times because it's just made of plastic and the clasp kept breaking, and those things are too darn expensive not to return them. I just discovered a choke collar though, that we have on Smokey (the pit) that is made of cloth and is a lot less intrusive and doesn't hurt the throat area and he does very well with it. Ok, I'm done babbling now...Good Luck and keep us informed as to what miracle you come up with to solve the dreaded pulling dog syndrom.

04-08-2002, 10:05 AM

The Halti I am assuming is what we call a "gentle leader".... it is the halter that goes over their nose and around the back of their ears right?

Like Aly said, the key is getting her used to it. She should understand that it's a good thing. Try putting it on her for about 10 minutes at a time while in the house. Pet her and give her a treat while she is wearing it. Do this a couple times each day until you think she is comfortable with it. Positive reinforcement will really help her get used to the halti.

I hope this helps!

!

**Cincy'sMom** · 04-08-2002, 08:12 PM

From my understanding the Halti and Gentle Leader are similar, but some people I have talked with say the gentle leader is better made...it seems to fit the muzzle better and is harder to get off.

I have tried the Halti with Cincy many times...she has had it on for short time periods, walks and been givin treats with it on, all that. She still constantly tries to get it off when walking. She has scraped her nose numerous times and once got it off her nose and was chewing on it while we were walking. That is why I was considering the gentle leader, to see if maybe it would stay in position better. It was surprising to me she has had such a time adjusting, cause as with many other dogs, Sadie adapted just fine and it makes a HUGE difference with her.

I guess I may see if I can test a gentle leader next time we go in for a class and see how that works...I'll let ya know!

**Crikit** · 04-10-2002, 09:12 PM

For Smudge I use a harness because he's so strong if he decided to he could pull my arm out of my socket and for Winter we're trying the harness but I would also like to be able to walk her with just a collar on because in agility the dogs run naked which means she can't train with a harness and you should only take a slip leash or something like that up to ring with you...only one problem with her. She has really sensitive wind pipe and I fear a repeat rush to the vet like last time when her tonsils popped out.

**Dixieland Dancer** · 04-11-2002, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Cincy'sMom
I am getting really frustrated trying to teach Cincy to walk right on a leash. I know it takes time and patience, but I am not sure what to try next...
I have practiced with her. (we have taken puupy kindergarten, and puppy 2). I don't let her go forward til the leash is loose. I use treats to keep her in position. She does great in the yard but then, we go to the sidewalk...

It sounds to me like you are doing great but maybe getting a little impatient in an environment with distractions. Keep practicing what I call the "stand like a tree" method. What most people don't realize is why dogs pull.

They pull to get somewhere they want to go! Plain and simple! If they don't go somewhere they will get frustrated and not you (well okay maybe you will too but you are in control).

Go to the sidewalk. Use whatever kind of collar you want (except something that chokes). I personally never used anything but a plain old buckle collar. When the leash gets tight, I stop and stand like a tree. Straight and tall with my head up. As soon as the dog even glances at me, I give them a YES command and a great treat! Sometimes in the beginning of training you may only go 50 feet in 20 minutes!

Once the dog realizes the behavior of looking at you will get him a treat and a few steps forward, increase the incentive. When the leash gets tight, don't just reward for looking at you but wait until the dog looks at you and takes a step towards you, then give a YES and a great treat!

The verbal YES is very important. You must make sure the very second the behavior is given, the verbal YES is given. No lagging in the reinforcement! If the verbal lags then the dog will become confused on exactly what behavior it was rewarded for. The reason for the Verbal reinforcement is to acknowledge when the behavior was performed. The treat reinforcement may come seconds later as long as the Verbal is timely. This releases the dog from wondering what you are looking for.

As progress is made then increase the incentive again. Make the incentive looking at you and taking a couple steps to you and then walking a few steps again. Keep progressing in this manner until you are walking about 5 to ten steps with no pulled leash! Get excited and tell the dog YES and reward with several great treats. More than before. Your goal is to make this reward the one he really wants!

As you get 10 steps done successfully, increase it to 15 or 20. Eventually you will be walking with no pulling. This has been successful for me with several dogs. My most difficult one took almost a month before the dog "caught on"! But he did! Remember though to "Stand like a tree", straight and tall and motionless when unwanted behavior is offered!

Good Luck!

Oh and by the way, if it does take some time to catch on, you may need to find another temporary way of exercising the dog if the walk is the only exercise the dog gets. My dogs are larger and high energy so in addition to walks, we play lots of FRISBEE!

**Cincy'sMom** · 04-11-2002, 02:30 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I guess I am getting too impatient. Too often I try to take both girls together and work with Cincy, while letting Sadie go and I really need to make more time to work with Cincy alone. I have tried the stand like a tree with her and she just doesn't seem to get it. When I have both girls, As soon as the leash gets tight, Sadie turns and comes to my side. Cincy stops, but she doesn't turn around. She just stands and watches what is in front of her. She did pretty good with it in her classes, a high distraction area, and she does good at home as long as it is in the house or in the backyard.

Last night I walked both of them, and I used Cincy's Halti instead of teh halter, because of her recent surgery. At first she was constantly pawing at it and flipping herself upside, but she did come around and do pretty good. I will keep working on it!!!

**Dixieland Dancer** · 04-11-2002, 02:57 PM

Work with her by herself. Think of this as training and not as a walk. Once she learns then you can consider it a walk and take both dogs. You are not there yet!

At first you may need to "stand like a tree" for what will seem like eternity. If you don't get a response in 3 or 4 minutes, turn and start walking in the opposite direction. When the leash gets tight immediately turn again in the direction you were originally going. Try again. Before she has a chance to have a tight lead again, give her the verbal YES and a treat. She will catch on.

It is going to be harder to unteach the bad behavior that she has learned than to learn the new behavior she must learn. In other words, she needs to unlearn that pulling will take her where she wants to go!