Poor Max?

[stacwase]

I don't know if I should feel sorry for Max or be happy for him. Ever since we started spending so much time on the farm, he's flat out exhausted. When we come home after a day or two there, he just crawls into his crate and doesn't move.

Yesterday was a VERY exhausting day for him. He protected the house from chipmunks and just ran around all day. He runs until he's so out of breath that he can't run anymore, then he lays down and catches his breath and does it again.

He never leaves the property, so I took him and the chis for a walk off leash. He chased a baby deer. He got shocked by an electric fence. And somehow (don't know when this possibly could have happened because he was only out of my sight for like 30 seconds at a time) he got skunked, or rolled in a skunk, or something.

I was actually really worried about the electric fence. He got shocked while he was jumping over it, so then he was inside the field and I was worried he'd get shocked again coming out. I found a place where he could easily get out and started calling him, but he was busy running around with his tongue lolling out and his mouth watering like I've never seen it water before. He was acting like a maniac. Finally he came through the opening and walked home with me, drooling massively the entire time. When we got back he drank 3 big bowls of water, stopping only long enough for me to refill the bowl.

He's OK now - but does anybody know anything about those fences? How bad do they shock? Are they dangerous? I'm thinking I should call the farmer and ask him to turn it off when we go for our walks.

[pitc9]

I don't know about electric fences, but I'm sure they have different settings they can be set to. I'll call and at least as him what it's turned up to!

Sure sounds like Max has a good time!!!
Except for the fence thing....

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by stacwase

... the electric fence.
He got shocked while he was jumping over it...

How bad do they shock? Are they dangerous?

I'm thinking I should call the farmer and ask him
to turn it off when we go for our walks.

They give a pretty sharp JOLT!

Back in the "Ole Daze" when I helped care for the Horses...
I'd *OFTEN* forget the Electric Fence was *ON* and
bump into or lean over it = *OUWCHIE*!
DANG - That HURTZ!

As for the Farmer "turning it off" when you walk...
Kinda *doubt* he'd be willing to do that...

Most every type of Critter that is confined by an Electric Fence -
Horses, Cows, Sheep, Goats, Pigs, etc -
learns to Sense when the Fence is ON/Working or OFF/Broken...
Turn if "OFF" - even for a few minutes - and the Critters KNOW
it's Off and start Leaning Into or Reaching Over it!

The Horses were especially "adept" at "testing" the Fences with
their whiskers... Put em into a different pasture;
and the Boss Hoss of the herd would immediately go
up to the Electric Strand and "test" it!

But the Dogs ALSO quickly learn to respect an Electric Fence!
They all get *ZAPPED* once or twice -
but then learn to "jump" it with caution and that it's *IMPORTANT*
to hold yur TAIL - straight out and to make a "clean jump"!

Max will quickly lean to "test" and jump with caution!
Best to just "Teach him" NOT to cross a farmer's fence -
MOST Farmers do not take kindly to Dogs "running" their Livestock!

/s/ Phred .

[Kfamr]

Or to just keep them on leashes.

[stacwase]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Or to just keep them on leashes.

Oh - I know. But he's just so happy when he's running.

What's it called when we attribute human feelings to animals? Altruism or something like that? Anyway - I know that's probably what I'm doing but I ask myself "Would I rather be safe and imprisoned, or at a higher risk and free?" I know that I'd rather risk injury or even death than to give up my freedom, and I feel extremely guilty when I take that away from Max.

I have this argument over and over with myself, in my mind. I say "Well - we keep our children confined, and dogs don't have any more sense than children sometimes." But then I answer myself "Children do grow up and get their freedom. Max is an adult."

So - I've reached a compromise. I let him off leash when I'm supervising him. He can still get into trouble that way, but at least I'm there to help.

Max was a HUGE part of why we bought the farm. We wanted him to be safer. Even here in town, he has busted out screens getting out to run. He loves running more than anything in the world - even more than food!

I'm not being irresponsible, honestly. I pray that he will be with us for a long time, but if not I want every moment of his life to be as happy as possible.

[dukedogsmom]

I don't think I could have that attitude. I know Duke's happy as long as he's with me and I also know he's safe 100% of the time he's with me. Sure, he'd be a lot happier out and about in the neighborhood, chasing cars or whatever. I also think dogs are like kids because they never grow up. So, it's up to us to look after them. I think I would keep him on leash and just fence in a large part of a yard for him to have.

[Tonya]

The guy behind my dad's house has electric fences. If it doesn't injure the baby goats, my son, and even myself the few times I've forgotten, I think it is fairly safe. Also, Max will learn not to touch it. It won't take long. Dusty went under the electric fence once to chase the sheep, and he never did it again. I know that they turn the juice up for larger livestock, but it is never high enough to be dangerous or fatal. Max's reaction was probably more from surprise then an actual injury.

I guess I have different feelings then some of the people at PT about dogs running off leash. I was born and raised in an agricultural city, so it's only natural to see dogs loose in the country. I think it is a beautiful thing to see a dog happily running free, even if there are a few dangers.

Of course you have to use your judgement. When I'm out at my dad's, I let Dusty run free if I just have him because he has common sense. He avoids roads, he doesn't go near the canal, he doesn't stray further then the neighbor's ranch, he gets along with all the other farmer's dogs. But Roxy, on the other hand, if I have her out there, she doesn't get to run offleash. I know she'd get herself hurt.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by stacwase
Oh - I know. But he's just so happy when he's running.

So is Nala. So is Simba. So is Kiara.

BUT -- Safety is important. You have no clue how that farmer could have reacted. He could have been watching him the whole time ready with a shot gun. Or, what animals Max could have run into.

My dogs would LOOOVEEE to run free 24/7, but it's just NOT safe, not even for the most well trained dogs... It's not safe for you either! I'm not sure if you read that one story about the guy who was walking the dogs, and the dogs ran up ahead of him. Some guy was ahead of them with a gun. He didn't shoot the dogs, but he shot the guy that the dogs were with.



I'm not trying to say this against you, but personally I believe anyone who walks their dogs unleashed is irresponsible. I know you want what's best for Max, but what's best is his safety. I'm sure he'd be just as happy to go on a walk while leashed. Maybe you can buy a long lead, that way he'd have his freedom, but he'd still be under your control and safe from going on someone else's property. IMO, that's the best compromise.

[stacwase]

I think that the difference in attitudes comes from the facts that life in more urban areas is sooooo terribly dangerous for dogs. If I lived in an area where there were cars driving by all the time, and garbage for the dogs to get into and get sick from, etc. etc. I would never even consider a walk offleash. In fact, we still have our house in town and I won't even open the windows more than about 6 inches because I'm afraid he'll bust a screen and get out.

I can most definitely understand the care that people living in more urban areas must take to keep their dogs safe. There's not a risk that a dog will be hurt offleash in those areas - there's a guarantee!

And there are definitely dogs who should never be off leash, even in the country. My stepdaughter's dog, Kamble, is a good example. When Kamble's around I won't let Max off leash because Kamble would run in the road or something and Max would run right after him.

I think each dog and each situation is different.

[chocolatepuppy]

----qoute by stacwase------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have this argument over and over with myself, in my mind. I say "Well - we keep our children confined, and dogs don't have any more sense than children sometimes." But then I answer myself "Children do grow up and get their freedom. Max is an adult.
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To me my furkids will always be children, they don't really grow up like people, and I feel they need my protection.I'll never believe my pups are unhappy because they don't run loose. There are a lot of bad things that happen to dogs in the country as well as in town. A girl I talked to on another board (who lived in the country)let her two dogs run loose, and one got poisioned. It died by the time it got to the vet. I would hate to see anything happen to Max!

[Tonya]

Yes, stacwase, that is exactly what I am trying to say. The attitude here in Modesto, is quite different then say San Fransisco or some other big city. You see dogs running along side tractors all the time, or riding in the back of trucks unrestrained. And most of these dogs live long happy lives. It's another ball park, with city dangers or the dangers of places that have dangerous wild animals.

[Kfamr]

Sorry to respond yet again but, even if I was living in the country i'd never let my dogs off leash.

There are many dangers in the country, if not more then there are in the urban areas. Such as, electric fencing, farmers, other animals. And, what if he had caught that baby deer and injured it? It's just really not safe for you, Max, or any other animals. I'm not saying this to pester you i'm saying it just because it's honestly what I believe.


I'd totally trust my dogs off leash, but I would not trust their natural instincts to explore and hunt, and definitely would not trust the people around me .. no matter WHERE we are.

[Tonya]

*But I have to add that the dogs cannot be total city slickers and then be expected to survive out in the country. I really think that dogs that are born and raised out on farms are much more aware of their surroundings...For instance, my dad's neighbor's dogs wouldn't dart into the street to chase a rabbit. They see rabbits (and chase them) everyday, so they're more aware of where they're running. Roxy on the other hand, she'd only be thinking about the rabbit, not where she is running. Also, I cannot say this for your area, but I know that a dog getting shot wouldn't happen in my area. Everyone knows everyone and who's dog is who's.

[Uabassoon]

I agree that if you are out in the country it's a lot different than letting your dog of leash in a city. If you have a dog that will come when called then the dangers are greatly lowered as long as they are supervised. There are pretty much no cars due to the fact that everyone owns several acres of land. I won't mention names but I know a certain person here that always posts pictures of her dogs running loose and no one ever says anything. But if you notice in her pictures you never see any cars or anything that could pose a possible danger to her dogs. But it also depends on the dog, if the dog is going to run far out of the owners view then I wouldn't do it. But if it's a dog that will stay close by then I don't see the problem.

[molucass]

One of my friends has the same mind set as a few of you guys.. "Ohh we live out in the country, nothing is going to happen."

Well, lots did happen...
Her brothers pit/boxer mix got poisoned, her pit bull got poisoned, another pit bull was trying to come out to her car to greet her when she was turning in the driveway and some idiot went around her (they went in to the oncoming traffic lane to get away from her because she was slowing down to turn that direction), and the person hit and killed her dog. I'm sure there are others, I just can't remember right now.

Her step dad usually would let her dogs out while she was at work, them all thinking nothing bad would happen, but as you can see, that was definately not the right assumption.

I just don't think its right for anyone to just let their dogs run around off leash because there is too many what if's, no matter where you live..

Just my .02.