Teenagers!!!

Is it NORMAL behavior for a teenaged boy (almost 16) to want to run away from home just because he doesn't get his own way all of the time?!?!?:confused:

EXAMPLES: He wants to deplete his savings account and buy speakers and a CD player for a vehicle, but he doesn't even have a vehicle to put them into yet, NOR enough money to buy a vehicle!:eek:

He tried renting a movie called "All for Lust" at a local Movie Gallery, and they let him do it, but he got caught by his parents and they pressed charges against Movie Gallery for not checking his ID. This was AFTER he had tried this in the past, and both he and the store employees had been TOLD that charges would be filed if he tried it again and they let him get by with it.:mad: :eek:

He removed chemicals and equipment from his school's chemistry lab to do his own experiments at home, and his mother caught him and reported it to the school and made him take them back, and he got in-school suspension for it.

He had a copy of his parents' vehicle key made, without their permission, so he would have it when the time came for him to run away. His mother found it and confiscated it.

He refuses to do much of his school work, because he thinks it takes too much of his time, and he doesn't want to waste his time doing it. (He consistently earns ratings in the 97th-99th % on standardized tests, and as a seventh grader took the ACT test through Duke University's Gifted/Talented program and got a high enough score to earn State honors for it. ) :rolleyes:

He thinks he has to act "macho" or "tough" so other kids won't think he's a "wuss" in some situations with peers. He thinks that means he has to get into physical fights in some situations.

He packs two duffle bags with stuff that he is going to take with him when he runs away, but falls asleep before he gets a chance to leave late at night because his Mother stays up until she knows he's asleep, because she doesn't trust him. His Dad finds the duffle bags outside the back door early the next morning, and wakes his Mother up to show them to her.

His mother goes through the bags and discovers that he only packed ONE extra pair of socks, two shirts, NO extra pairs of underwear :eek: , NO toilet paper, NO hair gel, and NO extra pairs of jeans. He had duct tape, new speakers:confused:, bread, hot dog buns, (no hotdogs), a few canned food items (no can opener, no silverware, no plates), his mess kit from when he was in Boy Scouts, matches, video games and CD's (NO video game machine or CD player), fishing flies and some other fishing equipment, as well as the State booklet on 2005 fishing laws and regulations. These are a FEW of the things he had packed (or DIDN'T have packed but SHOULD have!:D)

He tells his parents he was going to run away for awhile because they are TOO STRICT :eek:

TEENAGERS!!!!! :mad:

Good for your friend staying up all night. I've done it myself a few times when my daughter tried to slip out. Then you ask them what they were thinking and the answer is "I don't know" Thats the real answer: they DON'T know! They aren't thinking clearly, they are only thinking of how awful they have it.

When my son was a major attitude case last year, we sent him to Georgia to work on farm with cousins... it was a NIGHTMARE for him - the cousins were highly religious and went to church many times during the week, only watched he History Channel or Discovery. NEVER anything fun like MTV or even the Cartoon Network. And they ate regular good for you meals like broccoli and chicken... when he wanted Burger King and Pizza. Poor boy :rolleyes: He cried to come home every day for weeks, and came home a different kid. It was the best thing we ever did.

I am SOOOOOO glad my daughter turns 29 today!! I'd rather have a root canal through my butt than have to raise another teenager again!

I feel bad for his parents. I say let him go. He'll see how easy it is with a roof over his head, 3 squares a day and clothes on his back vs. living on the street.

Moosemom AMEN!!!!!! My problem is getting my 21 year old son to move OUT. Any one want to trade.

It sounds pretty normal...for a teenaged boy.

My brother did a lot of stupid things that eventually landed him in juvy! My parents were divorced and my mom didn't keep her thumb on him like these parents seem to.

My advice would be to keep tabs on that kid. His results would show that he's gifted and thus bored in normal school. Maybe he should be put up a grade or put in honors classes? If they're bored in school...trouble begins. They seem to need to steer him in more positive areas...keep him so busy he wont have time to screw off?

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Originally posted by moosmom
I am SOOOOOO glad my daughter turns 29 today!! I'd rather have a root canal through my butt than have to raise another teenager again!

I feel bad for his parents. I say let him go. He'll see how easy it is with a roof over his head, 3 squares a day and clothes on his back vs. living on the street.

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I agree.. but then you have to wonder, well, its too easy to fall into drugs on the street. If he's not already into that scene, you don't want him to go there.

When my daughter was at her worst, we threatened to send her back to her mother... she KNEW what life would be like there and decided to straighten out instead. Sometimes sending them somewhere else for a while is a good thing. They get homesick and learn a few lessons: mainly just how GOOD they had it at home.

My son turns 25 today so they share the same bday moosmom.

I wouldn't want to go thru those years again for nothing..17 nearly killed me..that Senior year~ didn't know if we would both live thru it..but we survived

Is this really normal?? I don't know anyone like this!

I'm a single mom of a teenage boy - almost 15 and freshman in high school. my Jon is ADHD and Gifted - like this boy, he tests in the top percentile on aptitude tests, and yet, at the moment, he's FAILING 3 classes because of his 'disorganizational disabilty'. However, Jon is nowhere near the crash point that this kid is - because school is the ONLY thing in life that he's failing.

I also am an active Boy Scout Leader, and a substitute teacher. My favorite grades to sub are Jr high (6th- 9th grade). I know alot of teenage boys - and I like them for the challenge they bring and what I can learn from them.

What strikes me most about this story is that I hear a very clear plea for HELP from this kid.

He's spiralling out of control, totallly confused, acting out, trying to get attention by pulling crazy, stupid stunts, and because he is physically old enough and large enough to get away with much of it - he's running amuck.

At his age, it's gonna be hard to get him back on track, and very painful for everyone involved.

Has anyone had him tested for drugs? does he drink? That would make his thought process even more convoluted - and if that problem could be resolved, it would help other issues. I would be willing to bet that drinking and drugs are part of his 'acting out'.

If his behavior isn't stopped NOW - I can almost guarantee that he's going to end up in serious legal trouble, soon.

From the list of things in his bags - I would also suspect that he didn't really mean to run away - he was TRYING to get 'caught', and if he actually did get out of the house, he'd be bunking at a friends. I also suspect that the 'running away' happened either right after a big parental showdown, or right before a weekend (when he'd be more likely to find a friends to stay at.) and was not truly 'planned' but more of an impulse. (Despite the key copy, which drving priveledges are a 'control' issue with kids, I'd bet taking the car was more of a 'fantasy' and probably a brag in front of his friends, than an actual 'plan')

He may think his parents are strict - and you don't give any example of what 'strict' means - to him or to his folks. But it sounds like he needs MORE structure, not less.

I'd be on this kid like his own personal police department.

He would only leave the house to go to school - until he had EARNED the right to go somewhere else. He would NOT be driving - at all. Not even for parental convienience. If he wants to behave like a kid, he gets treated like a kid, and kids don't drive.

CD's, games, etc would have to be EARNED back with homework time.

However - kids often say homework is 'stupid' or 'time wasting' when they really don't know how to do it. Just because a child shows 'intellegence' thru testing, doesn't mean he has the skills to navigate the requirements of his schoolwork. He may feel overwhelmed, need a tutor, or he may need to be tested for minor learning disabilities. ALOT of kids manage to make it thru school with minor disabilities, that aren't caught or diagnosed until the demands, pressure and competition of high school hit them full in the face. and then they fail miserably. Add Raging hormones to that, and you got a really confused kid. If he really IS gifted, that, too - can be a problem. Gifted kids get bored easily, and like bored pets - can turn destructive! 'Smart' does not equal "Mature". I haven't met a Teen yet that can truly follow things thru to a conclusion and consequences BEFORE they act. If the work is truly too easy for him - rote repetition is boring, and he turns his thoughts to something else. sometimes that means he misses important steps in classwork, and then falls behind or that he needs work more to his level. He'll resist that, too- but in the end, it will be better to keep his mind occupied.

My son HAS a disability, and an IEP (an Individual Education Plan)Our agreement with Jon in his math classes, is that as long as his test grades show he's understanding the concepts and passing tests with a 'B' or better, that he only has to do the first two problems in each section of a worksheet for homework. Just to show that he DOES understand the work. If he gets the wrong answer, then he has to do the WHOLE worksheet, because he obviously needs the 'practice' on that one.

Maybe this kid needs some 'tough love' and some negotiation of rules, expectations and priveledges. I would crack down on his friends, too. If they are not a good influence, I would find ways of making them vanish out of his universe. Peers are a big influence on teens - sometimes parents have to subtly manuver a kids friends.

I had a neighbor kid who used to drive me nuts - he was always thinking of reckless and destructive things for him and Jon to do, broke everything he touched, he wandered the entire town with no supervision at all. So I was polite to him - but every time he showed up, suddenly Jon and I had an 'appointment' to go to, or an errand to run that I absoulutly needed Jon's help on. If Jon was in the basement, I'd tell the kid Jon wasn't home. Sometimes I'd secretly call my mom, and have her call back & ask for Jon to come over to her house and do some chore for her, just to get Jon away from this kid. The kid would go find someone else to 'hang' with, and eventually gave up looking for Jon, as Jon was seemingly never home.

The kids I DID like - mostly Jon's boy scout friends - I encouraged to come over, fed them pop and pizza, had bonfires in the backyard, let them 'tinker' on stuff in my garage and with my tools, and set aside my 'errands' so we could stay home when they showed up. Jon's makeshift game room in our basement has become the local 'hang out' for a dozen or so teen boys. The rules are reasonable - keep the noise to a low roar, make sure the garbage hits the cans (and Jon has to empty them so they don't attract pests) any wrestling goes outside. Don't tease the animals. if you're not sure it's a good idea - ask. Most likely I'll let them do it, as long as they clean it up. The price is lots of pizza and pop. The reward is knowing my kid is safe, healthy and with GOOD friends. what a bargan.

Summer is coming up - I would look into some kind of program to get him into where he can get some 'space' from parents and see that HE has some choices and control over his life, and that the rules his parents have are really not so bad, in retrospect. a summer boot camp type of place- even a scout or church camp - if it has alot of structure to it's program. Maybe an outward bound type of thing (at least he'd learn how to pack for survival!) AWAY from everyone and everything he knows. Do it NOW, while he's still a minor and you still have some control over him.

when he comes back, Mom and Dad should have used their free time to work out reasonable rules & the priveledges they earn. Stick to it - be really hard nosed about it.

If you can -get him back in to Boy Scouts - or now they have 'Venture Scouts' which is not as 'childish' (not so much badges and rank advancements) They do high-adventure stuff - like canoing the boundary waters, mountain climbing and backpack treks. It's for boys AND girls, age 14 - 21. It would help him make better friends and give him some positive adult reinforcements he needs.

teens can be a pain - but its usually when they are IN PAIN. help this kid turn around!

Laura

That makes an incredible amount of sense Laura. When I was a teen I think that the only thing keeping my life under some sense of control was the fact I was so active in scouts and playing football etc. Kids of the current generation do seem to be so involved in video games etc, that I'm sure that they tend to miss out on learning life skills that would come to them by being involved in an activity like scouts. For me the fact that i had to go away and play football for a few days or go hiking in the Blue Mtns for a week, meant a lot less time with my father, and I was all for that. Unfortunately it didn't stop me leaving home at 17 though, but fate interviened and I ended up joining the Air Force, which was the absolute best place to sort out a smart alec 17 year old. I was forced to grow up pretty quick and was learning skills constantly the whole time I was in. A 3 or 6 year stint in the defence force is probably the best advice I can give a teen who doesn't know what to do with their life. It certainly sorted me out.

When my brothers told my mom they wanted to run away she offered to drive them anywhere they wanted to go....;)

This boy has ADHD and has been on medication for it since Kindergarten. He has been through the 2-week Boy's Town program 2 years ago, and one year ago his parents turned him over to the State on a voluntary basis as an uncontrollable juvenile.

That happened after he had shoplifted, and his parents found the hair care products he had shoplifted in his room, and they made him take them back to the business the next day after school and apologize. During the day that day his mother called the business and told them what they had discovered, and that they were going to make him bring the stuff back, and actually ASKED the business to press charges against him. That's what happened, so he was fined $200 plus $41.50 court costs.

His parents grounded him then, saying he couldn't go out and do anything that costed money until he had payed the fine off, and they weren't going to do it for him. Two nights later, the boy took off on his bike and rode it to the local skating rink after he told them he was going to go to bed. So his mother called the police to report that he had left the house without authorization, and told the police to check for him at the skating rink. The police caught him there within five minutes, and called the parents to come and pick him up. His parents told the police they couldn't control him, because he wouldn't obey their rules and he wouldn't do his school work and that they wanted him taken to the local youth shelter and turned over to the State Department of Social Services.

The boy ended up being in the youth shelter for four weeks, and then in a foster home for another 5 weeks. His parents said it was the most difficult thing they'd ever had to do, but they didn't feel they had a choice at that point, and they needed help with him. They had no idea what would happen, but they knew things would only get worse if they didn't take some drastic measures to stop him. He was a ward of the State for 6 months, even though he was placed back in his own home after that initial nine weeks out of the home.

He was doing very, very well until his mother told him about six weeks ago that he couldn't take money out of his Savings account to buy a set of sub-woofer speakers for a car until she had a chance to discuss it with his Dad, and possibly the Behavioral Services Team that the family has been working with. He actually started CRYING in Walmart, where they were when this conversation took place, to try to get her to change her mind and go to the bank right then to withdraw the money!

When he starts "throwing a fit", as his mother puts it, she puts her foot down and tells him that his behavior won't make her change her mind in his favor, and that because of his behavior she WON'T give in to him. She has done this as a reaction to his throwing fits ever since he was two years old, yet he STILL tries it! Anyway, things got bad rather quickly after that, and he has tried to make his parent's lives a "living hell" ever since, it seems.

They have had him in counseling, with them, off and on ever since sixth grade. He's in 10th grade now. He had a psychiatric evaluation at Mayo Clinic a year ago, just a month before the shoplifting incident, at the recommendation of the Psychologist they had been taking him to. He was diagnosed with ADHD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Conduct Disorder, and possible Bipolar Disorder by that Psychiatrist.

The family is receiving services through Region III Behavioral Services, and they are involved in the school "Wrap Around" progam, which works with at-risk youth in their school, home, and other social environments. His Youth Group leader is a part of the Behavioral Services Team, as is his school counselor, both parents, himself, the Team Coordinator, and the School Psychologist. His family's LMHP counselor is also on the Team. He sees a Psychiatrist who deals with adolescents, and just had another medication added to his routine when his mother took him to see the Psychiatrist yesterday.

He had done some superficial cutting on his left wrist on Sunday, but his mother didn't see it until Tuesday morning. She did what the Behavioral Services Team had recommended as an emergency plan in case anything like this happened, and took him to the hospital ER for an emergency mental health evaluation. He told the counselor who interviewed him there that he had made the cuts on his wrist out of anger and frustration with his parents for pressing charges against Movie Gallery for letting him rent the movie that was rated "R", and that he was also having some problems with peers, and that he didn't have any other outlet for his anger that he wouldn't get into trouble for.

Anyway, it seems this boy just doesn't know when to stop fighting his parents rules and start behaving! They're very concerned about his behavior, and are doing everything possible to raise him right, but nothing seems to help. His mother has drug test strips at their house, and routinely does drug testing on him if/when he is acting out like that. The tests have all been negative, and she knows it is his urine and it hasn't been altered in any way. He hasn't been drinking alcohol, because they keep very close tabs on him and he hasn't ever showed positive on the alcohol tests they use on him occasionally, either. They have also warned him about the risks of mixing alcohol with all of the other medications he is on, and have told him it would be fatal to him.

His parents are Christians, and his mother especially is very involved at their church. She is the Nursery Coordinator at the church, and is involved in Stephen Ministries, Christ Care groups, and the Hand Bell Choir. She also drives the church bus on a volunteer basis for various church group activities. These parents have a lot of faith, and are asking for LOTS and LOTS of prayers for their son and for their situation. I told them I would ask for prayers from people here on this forum for them, also, as it can't hurt and it might just help. It seems to be about the ONLY thing that will help them at this point.

In my opinion, to answer your question No it isn't normal.

wow maybe a good dose of boot camp will teach him. that tantrum in walmart sounds like he still thinks he's a li'l kid that can get away with it. maybe a good reality check, like one day in jail (just about serious here) with criminals (not in his cell, but near it) will give him a dose of what could happen.

does he have a job or just an allowance?

that or, let him run off. realize what actually needs to be done for him to get on in life.

or one heck of an ass whooping... (jk, well kinda).

good luck to them... unless he wakes up to reality I think we'll see him in the police log somewhere...

Ha! Let 'em run, he'll come back. What's going on is not normal, something is wrong if he is doing all this planning and the problems doesn't start with him. Sounds like me when I was that ge except I systematically desensitized myself to falling off high places. Definate plea for help.

I can SO sympathise.

My son is thirteen, and has a major attitude as well as being one big raging ball of hormones.

I wish you could neuter children, like you can neuter dogs. ;)

And I'm sure the worst is yet to come. *sigh*

I should have gotten my tubes tied when I was fifteen!

Sounds like a boot camp program or outward bound . They have to learn to take care of themselves and the "team". These are usually in the wilderness where there is no where to run to. (kinda of the farm thing) I have a girl freind who has worked at one for years in the summer(winters shes a college prof) she has told me tons of terrfic stories of kids and how they change. They should look in to one of these programs, the cost is worth it as it could save this kid.


Twister keep him intrested in hunting and fishing (away from girls ) it helps . I kept my son fishing a lot, I froze my fanny off many days just to keep him busy. He still at 21 doesn't have a girl friend as he is unempolyed right now and knows I won't bank roll dates. My kids didn't get allowances they had a chart of chores that they got marked off and each job had an amount attached to it. They earned there money the more chores on the chart the more money on pay days.

I had a suspicion about the ADHD. I know SO MANY kids with it and have ADD myself. And if he has additional 'co-morbid' disorders with it, like 'Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Conduct Disorder, and possible Bipolar Disorder' as you said, (Which is VERY common) that makes it even tougher to control.

Two of the biggest problems with these disorders is that they involve an imbalance of brain chemicals, of which there is no reliable way to test, measure or monitor. Dosing of medication is something you just have to try and often have to adjust, almost constantly. With multiple disorders, the different medicines required can cause their own problems. The other thing is that you're dealing with TEENAGERs - who are unpredictable at best and totally out of control at worst, even WITHOUT any kind of disorder or disability.

Now there are loads of people who 'don't believe' in these disorders - they think that 'discipline' or a 'good kick in the pants' is all the 'cure' a kid like this needs. There are others who think that tossing medication at the kid is going to 'solve' the problem.

Neither will work, and both are necessary. you need medication, consistant behavior plans, coping skills and LOADS of patience.

The really frustrating thing is that just as soon as you think you've worked something out and come to some kind of plateu, where parents and teachers can take a breather - those nasty hormones kick in or something else happens, and the entire precarious balance is toppled and you have to start all over again.

What works today is useless tomorrow. It's EXTREMEMLY frustrating for the kid and everyone around him.

I have always been EXTREMELY lucky in that my son's ADHD never took an agressive, defiant or violent form, as many do. I was always able to channel his impulsive, loud, rambunctious tendancies into more constructive outlets - and was able to see when he was 'overloading' and remove him from situations before they got out of control for him. Because I've been a single parent, since he was 2 - I've been able to give him the attention he needed and spent alot of time feeding his need for stimulation - camping trips, museums, parks, exploring, building stuff. And when Jon truly is trying and people get frustrated with him - I fight for him tooth and nail. When he slacks off, and DOESN'T try, I sympathise, but I STILL hold him accountable.


since I know how it feels to have my own head out of control with ADD - I understand what these kids go thru. it isn't something THEY can control - the impulsivity of ADD is just THERE. sometimes it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion - you see it happening, know it's happening to YOU, and you're helpless to do anything about it. Things that are simple for 'normal' people, like showing up on time, remembering to turn in assignments, knowing where you left your keys - these things take ENOURMOUS effort for people with ADD - some days are better than others, and it gets extrememly tiring just to get thru life.

My son is currently tanking three courses in High school, mostly because those teachers would not make the effort to communicate with me early, and directly when he first missed assignments, and did not take me seriously when I warned them and his counselor that Tristan's Cancer and immenent death was going to destroy any fragile balance Jon had for awhile. Our dog, Tristan, was truly like my child and Jon's brother, and for the months before and after his death, Jon did almost NO homework, failed tests, and missed alot of school, simply from depression of losing Tristan.

I was dealing with some depression issues myself, and since no one was complaining, I assumed Jon was OK. Wrong.

I don't know why people, especially adult teachers, can be so stupid - just because Jon wasn't bleeding all over the floor or throwing fits every day, didn't mean his heart wasn't torn apart at losing his best friend! how is he supposed to concentrate on conjugating Spanish verbs when he is in such pain?

this kid is 'throwing fits' BECAUSE he's lost control. I don't know the whole situation - but I'm willing to bet that there were signs before the fit in WalMart that he was on edge.

You don't take a toddler into a fancy restaurant when it's supposed to be naptime and he's tired and hungy; you KNOW the kid is going to end up screaming and no one is going to have a good time.

Similarly, with ADD kids, you watch for signs that they are 'on the edge' and REMOVE them from the situation. Eventually, you can teach THEM to watch for the signs themselves and teach them to avoid potential problems themselves. Until then, they don't have the coping skills and the maturity to control themselves.

it sounds like this family is doing everything they can. I'll certainly add them to my prayers, as I can truly feel for what they are going thru.

Laura

Laura I hope you didn't think I ment to tos meds or disciplne . I know these things excist and are serius matters. The programs I mentioned work with the kids meds but it gets them away from the Busyness that causes the over stemulaton . Then they can find the place in themselves to go when overwhelmed. It also reinforces their selfconfidence that these disorders rob them of. I know i had a hyperactive(add) son and I have dislexia so I know you have to rebuild the self esteem.



Soaplet
This poor boy being gifted too must be so frustrated finding the outlet for his frustraton is so needed. Is there something he does well and enjoys that could be used to focus his attention on? And be used to encourage him in.

That sounds like alot of the behavior that I had when I was a teen. I went from being a cute athlete and student body president with straight A's to a total loser who only dressed in grunge. I got new loser friends and dropped my old preppy ones. I wound up attempting suicide and getting into drugs. Looking back, I cannot believe that my mother and the school didn't see the warning signs. I strongly suggest counseling right away. They really need to get to the bottom of what is upsetting him.

BTW, I've done alot of reading and classes on ADHD and a few other disorders because my son has ADHD and OCD. IMO, 'Oppositional Defiant Disorder' sounds like bs. I read a book about it, it seems like one of those things that they're just trying to slap another label out there. I can see someone being so hyper or so depressed that it affects their behavior, therefor causing them to be defiant. But I do not believe that there is a specific disorder in the brain that causes defiance. EVERYONE knows right from wrong.

I read a few of your posts, I'm to tired to read them all, but I will be sure to come back tomorrow. It sounds like you are really on top of things with this kid. I totally agree that he needs to be tested. My mother had me seeing doctors because I was tired all the time. Well, one of the doctors did a series of tests and called my mom and told her that I tested positive for drugs. She told him no way, not her sweet little girl. She never even brought it up to me until I was an adult.

I sure wish you were in California to help me with my son! You sound very knowledgeable.

"I wish you could neuter children, like you can neuter dogs."

LOL! --:rolleyes:

i know you don't REALLY mean that - if that were true, you'd loose the sweet revenge of GRANDCHILDREN that torment your KIDS, just as your kids tormented YOU!

LOL!


Corrina - no offense taken. I agree, meds AND discipline are a core part of reaching these kids - but too many people think that that is ALL they have to do - like the meds are a 'cure' or discipline (some people use the word 'discipline when they mean 'punishment) will 'teach them a lesson'. ADHD, ODD or whatever is not something you can 'fix' and be done with. it's something that exists in that person FOREVER, and is ongoing thru their whole life.

(people used to think that ADHD only happened in boys, and only in kids, but what happens is that those who 'survived' to be apparently 'normal' adults learned coping skills to deal with the 'normal' world. Out of school, the things that make ADDer's such annoying kids, can be channeled into creative carreers. IF they're lucky)

Camps, outward bound, etc are great. So many of these kids don't see in THEMSELVES that they are worth saving - esp when they are surrounded by so-called 'friends' and environments (school) that support that failing self image. Teens are very cruel pack animals. That's why I'm all for getting a kid totally out of his familiar territory and with NEW people that don't judge him on his past and support him into sliding back into familiar (and bad) habits.


Tonya -

"EVERYONE knows right from wrong." - you said you were tired and couldn't read the entire thread - so I'm hoping this was just a short statement that you really didn't mean the way it sounded.

'EVERYONE' does NOT "know" right from wrong - I spend ALOT of time with teens, and it's amazing how many don't have a clue what's 'right' and what's 'wrong'. What is even sadder, is that, unlike this boy's parents, there are so very many kids whose parents just don't care enough to teach right from wrong, if they even know themselves.

As for 'believing' in a disorder, just because YOU don't understand something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. (I don't understand quantum mechanics,either - but they still exist!)

It's true that alot of understanding how the mind works is baised on observation, and things that can't be extracted, examined, and measured - psychology will never be an 'exact' science. But I KNOW kids with severe ODD - you ask them if they want an ice cream cone and they shout "NO" while reaching for the cone with eager eyes!

What a childs disability is, I'm not qualified to tell - but believe me - when you live or work with one of these kids every day, and if you truly care about the child - you come to 'believe' - real quick. There is no other logical explaination. No one would 'choose' to have ANY of these disabilities!

That being said, you can't use a diagnosis as an excuse for a kid to run wild over others - only as a basis for taking steps in treating and correcting behavior.

and in the end, there are no guarantees that whatever we do, it will turn out OK for them as adults.

laura

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Originally posted by LauraT7
It's true that alot of understanding how the mind works is baised on observation, and things that can't be extracted, examined, and measured - psychology will never be an 'exact' science. But I KNOW kids with severe ODD - you ask them if they want an ice cream cone and they shout "NO" while reaching for the cone with eager eyes!

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I am sorry. I think I was so tired that I didn't really word myself well. The book that I read didn't even mention scenarios like what you said above. That puts it into another perspective for me. The book that I read made it sound more like a cop out for bad behavior. Basically as if all criminals have ODD.

I guess I was being hypocritical because I get offended when people say that ADHD is an excuse, that my son just needs more training. I basically did the same thing.

Anyways, I'm dead tired once again. (Thanks to my newborn!) So I'll stop rambling, hope I make a little more sense today. Thanks for the correction, Laura, I appologize.

Do any of you know of any specific "working farms" or "wilderness ranches" that this boy could possibly be sent to that would help him out? His parents aren't wealthy and can't afford a lot, which is the biggest problem with attempting to find something like this............ :confused:

I don't know about specific opportunities, but I do know that every camp i've ever worked with will offer 'camperships' or 'scholarships' to help fund attendance. all you have to do is ask.

If you find a camp, don't turn it down without asking about camperships, first!

laura