Lufthansa Germanwings airplane crash, scary and sad

I heard on the news this morning that the Lufthansa Germanwings plane that crashed in the Alps was a deliberate action. The co-pilot apparently locked the pilot out of the cockpit and crashed the plane himself. What would be a reason for the pilot to step out of the cockpit during the flight, I wonder? What must have been going through the co-pilot's mind for him to decide to do that?

One of the passengers was an opera singer who performed with the Lyric Opera several years ago. So there is a Chicago connection to this sad story. I also heard there was a group of students from the same school who had been in an exchange program and were on their way home. So tragic for that school and town.

This was such a shame.

The pilot probably needed a bio break. How was he to know the copilot would lock him out?

My sole question as details emerge is simple:

What was someone with a history of depression doing in command of an aircraft to begin with?

I thought there was a rule requiring more than one person in the cockpit at all times.

Not that I'm aware of, otherwise A 320s and the RJs (regional jets) would have been designed with cockpit spaces for three flight crew members. On any flight more than 1/2 hour or so there's a good chance someone's going to have to use the bathroom.

WAAAAAY before we, us regular folks, begin to think about the 'whys' of the accident?

Let's start to think about the people who lost family members on board?

I FN hate the media and their 'jumping' to conclusions about why someone decided to auger an aircraft into the side of a mountain.

Here are a few things to take into consideration....

IF this was an idiot with a death wish, he would have done it as soon as the pilot left the cockpit - the same with a 'terrorist action'.....I'd think that someone would have left some kind of message or made a comment that was able to be picked up on the CP audio. This is something more than a run-of-the-mill suicide. This was probably an action based on some kind of vengeance or retribution - This idiot has some kind of beef with his employers or the world.

Don't listen to the 'latest' news. It's too soon to try to figure out the what and whys.

(On a side note, MSNBC is already talking to the people who are lining up the criminal case against Lufthansa, Airbus and the people who put the peanuts on board the plane.)

As to the people who were lost, prayers have already gone out.


When the German chancellor thinks she has enough evidence to run with, i think the case is fairly well closed. Details will emerge over time, but the 50000 ft view of the event is fairly clear, and as more information comes out it just looks more damning.

This isn't like other airline crashes where they had no physical evidence to work with. They got the black boxes fairly rapidly, and the airbus is fly by wire, so the telemetry and data recordings are direct inputs from the flight computers.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

As to the people who were lost, prayers have already gone out.


When the German chancellor thinks she has enough evidence to run with, i think the case is fairly well closed. Details will emerge over time, but the 50000 ft view of the event is fairly clear, and as more information comes out it just looks more damning.

This isn't like other airline crashes where they had no physical evidence to work with. They got the black boxes fairly rapidly, and the airbus is fly by wire, so the telemetry and data recordings are direct inputs from the flight computers.

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No question as to the general facts of the crash, someone 'allowed' a passenger jet to hit a mountain.

The 'whys' are what - if there is enough evidence left behind - need to be uncovered?
My questions are pretty simple, IF you wanted to crash a passenger airliner for revenge/religion/suicide, why would you fly it for 8 minutes AFTER you locked out the pilot?

The longer you fly a plane, with the idea that you want to destroy it, the longer you have to have your plot foiled or having someone or something intervene in you plans.

If you were going to try to pull off a terrorist attack, you have control of a plane that you can pretty much fly around and target a building or a town. As we saw on 9/11, you pretty much have to be Johnny-on-the-spot to defeat a terrorist attack by air.

People want to know the reason as to why this happened.

Something is off with this story - when you get certain clues or facts/behaviors as the story unfolds, you can say, "Oh, that makes sense...." Something is very off with this crash......But, that is my view about stuff - I tend to over analyze stuff like this.

Very scary. I hope they install a small washroom in the cockpit!

By now we know that Andreas Lubitz had been treated for depression, and had torn up many "sick day" notes from his doctor so he could fly. Did he really think he would be fired if he took those days?

Not sure how much of this can be blamed on the "stigma" that mental illness carries and/or the possibly intense fear that Lubitz felt about being honest about his health. And the ire of many folks might rightly be raised when I state that Lubitz was also a victim of a very different kind.

It is all too, too - beyond words.

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Originally Posted by Catty1

Very scary. I hope they install a small washroom in the cockpit!

By now we know that Andreas Lubitz had been treated for depression, and had torn up many "sick day" notes from his doctor so he could fly. Did he really think he would be fired if he took those days?

Not sure how much of this can be blamed on the "stigma" that mental illness carries and/or the possibly intense fear that Lubitz felt about being honest about his health. And the ire of many folks might rightly be raised when I state that Lubitz was also a victim of a very different kind.

It is all too, too - beyond words.

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There are some medical conditions which should be an immediate bar to performing certain jobs and activities. Someone dealing with depression SHOULD NOT be in charge of the lives of hundreds of others. Just because someone wants to do something doesn't mean that they should be able to do it. There are qualifiers for everything, and those qualifiers should be more strenuous when dealing with the safety of others.

Reality isn't the warm fuzzy we wish it was.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

There are some medical conditions which should be an immediate bar to performing certain jobs and activities. Someone dealing with depression SHOULD NOT be in charge of the lives of hundreds of others. Just because someone wants to do something doesn't mean that they should be able to do it. There are qualifiers for everything, and those qualifiers should be more strenuous when dealing with the safety of others.

Reality isn't the warm fuzzy we wish it was.

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And that could very well explain his hesitation, he likely just spiraled down during the flight as people with Depression sometimes do, only this time, he was tragically in a position where hitting bottom cost not just his own life, but many, many others, if this what happened. Tragic, tragic tragic whatever the circumstances.

I know some wonderfully people with depression and bipolar disorder, and nearly all of them I have spoken to have had that thought at some point, and I am glad they survived to face another day.

He did have a dr note so he wouldn't have to fly the day of the crash - and had such notes for other times - but destroyed them and continued to fly.

I wish his doctor and other medical professionals were required by law to report any such concerns to the employer, right away!

Too late for this horror.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

There are some medical conditions which should be an immediate bar to performing certain jobs and activities. Someone dealing with depression SHOULD NOT be in charge of the lives of hundreds of others. Just because someone wants to do something doesn't mean that they should be able to do it. There are qualifiers for everything, and those qualifiers should be more strenuous when dealing with the safety of others.

Reality isn't the warm fuzzy we wish it was.

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Well, here is where warm fuzzy meets the reality of health/mental health care?

Here comes the rub....

There should be a system in place to monitor people who are in charge of transportation....Air/rail/road.

Now, how and what will that system look like, who will be in charge and what will the people affected think about it?

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Health records are pretty personal and I have mixed feelings about them being used as a measuring stick.....I agree that some plan should be in place, but how much info should be made available to employers and how will it be used?

One thing that I learned about working in health care is that when people are motivated to look into a clinical/hospital record, they have access to it all - Remember the Octo-Mom?

She delivered her kids at a facility that was part of the HMO that I worked for. After the births, people began to access her inpatient records and a whole slew of people were let go because of their 'curiosity'. Not a good deal.

The other hitch is the electric medical record movement here in the US..... That means that your medical records are now available, on-line.


This is going to be a tough sell here in America.

RICHARD, one measuring stick might be, in this case, that the doc would be required to report to the employer that a certain employee had a note from her/him that exempted them from working that day - or whatever period of time the doc determined.

I suggest this should be mandatory when the safety and well-being of the patient and anyone else may be affected.

I have read that this person very badly feared that he would never get to be a long-haul pilot with an airline - I guess one has to have a certain number of hours? So he wouldn't even call in sick and destroyed his medical exemption notes.

Dishonest and very sick - not a good combo in any situation and particularly not in this one. :(

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

Well, here is where warm fuzzy meets the reality of health/mental health care?

Here comes the rub....

There should be a system in place to monitor people who are in charge of transportation....Air/rail/road.

Now, how and what will that system look like, who will be in charge and what will the people affected think about it?

--------------

Health records are pretty personal and I have mixed feelings about them being used as a measuring stick.....I agree that some plan should be in place, but how much info should be made available to employers and how will it be used?

One thing that I learned about working in health care is that when people are motivated to look into a clinical/hospital record, they have access to it all - Remember the Octo-Mom?

She delivered her kids at a facility that was part of the HMO that I worked for. After the births, people began to access her inpatient records and a whole slew of people were let go because of their 'curiosity'. Not a good deal.

The other hitch is the electric medical record movement here in the US..... That means that your medical records are now available, on-line.


This is going to be a tough sell here in America.

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HIPPA makes any employer reporting impossible, and needs to change.

HIPPA was well intentioned, but makes things a nightmare. I can't check on an insurance bill for my wife or children. Mental health records in particular are sacrosanct, while they should be part of a screening for many jobs, not just transportation.

Using celebrity health record snooping as an example is something of a red herring, that's going to happen regardless. It's human nature. Celebrity comes with a price. As to online med records access? They can be made incredibly secure, actually more secure than paper, because you can't just walk over to the file stack to look.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

HIPPA makes any employer reporting impossible, and needs to change.

HIPPA was well intentioned, but makes things a nightmare. I can't check on an insurance bill for my wife or children. Mental health records in particular are sacrosanct, while they should be part of a screening for many jobs, not just transportation.

Using celebrity health record snooping as an example is something of a red herring, that's going to happen regardless. It's human nature. Celebrity comes with a price. As to online med records access? They can be made incredibly secure, actually more secure than paper, because you can't just walk over to the file stack to look.

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Understood.

Sharing PWs is still a problem, so are people who walk away from a hot terminal. Lost PDA's and docs who give a PW to a nurse were something that our work groups looked at - more common that you'd expect.

One interesting thing that I read about 'secure' EMRs was the line that went something, 'Now, from the comfort of my couch, I can access information that I used to have to rummage thru a records room to get....'

The 'latest' online EMR scam are hackers that are taking info and using it to bill medicare for meds and equipment.......