People say they know their limits where animal companions are concerned, but how do you know when you have crossed the line & become one?
Do you know anyone who fits the description?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=11545614
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People say they know their limits where animal companions are concerned, but how do you know when you have crossed the line & become one?
Do you know anyone who fits the description?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=11545614
That's just cruel! They weren't taking care of them, they were killing them! :mad:
With some people, one or two animals is too much. I don't know how we can stop people from taking in animals that they don't know how to care for or get tired of caring for or who think that their animals living in a hoarding situation are healthy but I do know that we can report people who are abusing and/or hoarding animals. WE MUST!!
Most of my birds were taken in as rescues and god only knows what they went through because they had been surrendered to the wild bird sanctuary where I volunteer. The others were bought from pet shops and one from a breeder, but still, 15 quaker parrots in one cage. 20 budgies in one cage with dirty water. What does this say about the care that these birds receive from the stores and breeders who are supposed to know what to do!?!
I am at bird saturation point now and although I have been approached to take birds that others could not care for I have to say no. I can't tell you how it breaks my heart, but I can't afford to add anymore birds and it will also cut into the time I have for my current birds who are established as my flock and who need my attention. People who are giving up their pets must research who they are giving them to and not just be so relieved that they found someone, anyone(!), who will take them. That is part of our responsibility toward them.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here because you all love and care for your pets the way they need to be cared for. Just please keep your eyes open. . .
Cathy and the FLock
I love animals but I know my own personal limit. I've been watching "Animal Hoarders" on Animal Planet and I'm just amazed at how these people don't even think that they have a problem or if they do they don't know how to reach out for help.:(
I think that's the key, but done in a kind and caring way, with the animals' best interests in mind, rather than being punitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherinedana
There was a sad story on the news here a few months ago about horses that were removed from a setting where they were being neglected. They were taken to a rescue organization where they received veterinary check-ups, clean water and started on a nutritionally correct diet for horses. The spokesperson for the organization said they were all expected to do well with proper care.
I take a tougher stance than most, I guess, about animal hoarders. If they need counseling, and it's apparent that many do, then they should get it AFTER they serve jail sentences longer than 90 days and AFTER they pay stiff fines. Perhaps if others see that animal hoarding will no longer be tolerated, they might think twice before taking in any more animals.
Some do begin w/good intentions but I'm not buying that they just didn't realize how bad conditions became. Just a couple of days ago I watched a program about one hoarder whose house was in such deplorable, filthy, unsanitary conditions that I had to keep changing the channel. His furniture was shredded, urinated and defecated on, he didn't have sheets on his bed b/c they'd all been ruined, feces was a couple of inches high in one room and down the hall, feces was on his stove ! and elsewhere. His ailing wife had to move out b/c it was affecting her health so badly, especially after having surgery. We're supposed to believe that he didn't notice those things? And we're supposed to believe that he "loves" those cats but yet allows them to live in squalor and filth, w/o vet care and many of them w/URI's? Nope, not buying it. Charges weren't pressed against him b/c he cooperated w/authorities and surrendered the cats, even though he had previously ignored letters from them. He said that he was afraid, which tells me that he knew what he was doing was wrong and he made no effort whatsoever to clean his house up and care for those cats. That's where a mistake was made. He should've been fined and jailed as an example to other hoarders to clean up their act or pay the price. I doubt that he learned anything from the experience other than you can live like a pig w/animals and there will be no penalty for it if you cooperate w/authorities and surrender the animals. It made me furious!
There was a person in my rescue who turned out to be a hoarder. She got very sick, and some volunteers went into the house. She had claimed 18 cats; there were actually over 50 and about 8 had to be euthanized. They are being resocialized and are doing well.
And if that guy wasn't charged for this but just let go back home, I bet anything he's accumulating more cats again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa
I think there is a big mental health issue here & harsh punishment
should be reserved for the most egregious cases where deliberate animal
cruelty is documented. They should be required to undergro mental health
counceling & classes on animal health & behavior.
I have to agree with Medussa on this hoarding issue. These people know exactly what they're doing. Can someone tell me how anyone who claims to love animals so much wouldn't care that they lived the way they did? To tell the truth I think those cats would have been better off on their own in the bush somewhere, they always seem to find sanctuaries that have food and shelter and at least they're cleaner than those homes. They have less chance of getting sick in the fresh air and open spaces. Same as those hoarding dogs. We just had one home raided and 36 toy breeds were found, most of them requiring vet care while some had to be euthanized. I agree with strict jail terms and rehab after the sentence is finished and the debt to those animals paid in full. Putting them to work as volunteers in shelters for a few years might teach them something about hoarding.
Yes, definitely it is a mental health issue, but somehow the behavior pattern has to be stopped. If there are no unpleasant consequences for the hoarders, they're just going to go back to doing more of it.. for whatever motivations, conscious or unconscious, that had them doing it before.
I have dealt with quite a few hoarders personally over the past couple of decades, working with shelters and humane societies. Without fail every single one of them went on to hoard again, and again, at every opportunity. Some have done jail time, some have been court-ordered into mental health evalutations and counseling. And yet, given the slightest opportunity, the first thing they do is start grabbing up animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa
It sickens and infuriates me as much as the next person, but I've also talked to and dealt with these people personally. Not saying every person with too many animals is a true hoarder, but a true hoarder is mentally ill. They do not see reality. It's just as real a mental issue as bi-polar disorder or schitzophrenia ... one does not simply stop being mentally ill because they served jail time or paid a fine. It's not a choice they can make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisterdog
I agree. No amount of fines or punishment will cure these folks.Anyone
who sees what their living conditions are and thinks that things are normal,
clearly has a skewed view of reality.
I knew someone, who I guess you could call an animal hoarder. She at one time had 6 cats, 3 dogs, 4 ferrets, 3 guinea pigs, fish, and hermit crabs. Normally, I guess this wouldn't have been a problem but her parents could not afford the pets. Her ferret lived the last half of it's like with a giant tumor on his tail. Her guinea pigs cages were gross. Her house smelled of cat pee and there was hair LITERALLY everywhere, even in the food. It's not the most a hoarder can have but she couldn't handle it, and some of her animals suffered from it. They never could afford a "vet". they had AC called on them twice in the 8 years I knew her. I would consider them a hoarder just because they were over their limits and they knew it.
Unfortunatly hoarders really DON'T understand what they are doing. They feel that if the animal has lived that way forever, that the animal knows nothing different; Therefore, it has nothing to be sad about. That the way they live, whether it's sick, dying, in pain, whatever, is better off than being dead -- While a normal person would be able to end the animal's suffering, an animal hoarder feels that death is the worst outcome.
I know because my grandmother is a hoarder. She has had literally hundreds of cats, and dozens of dogs at a time. Chickens, geese, guinea pigs, rabbits, etc.
When she moved away (out into the bush) the forest fires had driven alot of animals into her area, so the coyotes etc did away with most of the cats, which was actually lucky for us because we were able to spay all of the females but two, and neuter all of the males but a three or four. That was years ago so she has probably built up yet another army of them by now, not sure.
She heard me bashing puppy mills once and flipped out, told me that the dogs didn't know that life could be better so that is just fine for them -- how else can you get a cheap dog (even though pet stores charge outrageous prices)?? Said the same thing about over 50 husky/mal/shep mixes that were chained up in her area, suffering from giardia, most of them being PTS -- she completely flipped out. The dogs had always been there and were happy, so she didn't think it was right to take them away from there. They didn't know better.
The last time I went to her house, she had cat feces on her counter, in her bath tub, and on her bed. She knew we were coming over.
She smells so badly like a litter box when she comes here. Anything she gives us needs to be washed several times to get the smell out.
She always had too many animals -- but it didn't get really bad until my grandpa left her. Then she went out of control. My mom and aunts are very resentful. My mom remembers her friend waiting on the steps to her house for over an hour so my mom could come play -- but she wasn't allowed to go play until she was finished cleaning the cages. She had to scrub them all. Over an hour later, her friend had to go home for dinner, and my mom wasn't done yet. The kids were responsible for the animals.
One time she and my aunts walked a long ways to take a litter of kittens to the vet. The vet said the kittens were suffering and would likely die anyways -- they needed to be put down. So they left the kittens there. When they got home, my grandma was so furious, she flipped out and made them go back and pick the sick kittens back up again.
Years later, my dad recalls her having too many vehicles -- a long driveway, with several vehicles, and a dog tied to each one. He specifically remembers a dalmatian tied up on a short chain to a van, seemingly going out of it's mind.
I remember when one of her dogs got loose and cut itself -- a huge gash in it's neck, you could see all her insides. She let it stay on the chain because she couldn't take it to the vet until the next day. I could just remember the collar touching the gash and it grossed me out so bad. She didn't really seem to think it was that bad.
That is the problem with hoarders, it's never THAT BAD. To them, it's just the only way the animals have lived, and life is better than death... So to them it's perfectly rational.They don't realise that they are thinking of their own feelings, and how difficult it is for them to lose those animals; They don't consider that maybe it's in the animal's best interest to BE lost...They just refuse to think that way.
I do believe there is a mental health issue when it comes to hoarders. They take in all these animals because they probably love them and it soon gets out of control. Often, these people don't have the money to care for them properly, so I agree that they should get counseling and not be allowed to have more than a few animals, if any!
Concerning punishment for what they do... sadly, I don't think it will have an effect. However, the people who are not mentally retarded should pay the price!
I think it's amazing that neighbors don't notice these conditions and do something about it.
I'll tell a quick story...A member of another board who I consider a friend recently crossed the line from collector to hoarder when they went through some large life upheavals and became too depressed to take care of themselves well, to say nothing of their animals.
Some local friends made the information public among other friends in the reptile community, and some wonderful people converged to HELP the person out. With CARE and SUPPORT as well as a firm stance about what was expected of them, all but a few of the animals are being re-homed VOLUNTARILY and other changes have been made to assure that this doesn't happen again. Someone stopped by the house today to assist with cage cleaning and taking pictures of the snakes to go with the online postings about finding them homes.
I also once worked with a rat rescue who worked with a hoarder, and that was...gut-tearing, heart-wrenching work. It had gone much farther than the first situation I talked about, and it was a BIG JOB.
In both cases, I really felt like we were tearing the heart out of the person we were trying to help. They both DID have the best of intentions, and they both DO love their animals dearly. In the case of the rat hoarder, we had to convince him that we were there with the animals' best interests in mind before we were allowed to even BEGIN helping. Baffling to me, because the alternative was animal control coming in and seizing all of his animals. With our help, he was allowed to keep a SMALL colony, while we worked on vetting/re-homing 900+ more. Our group worked HARD to help ensure that he didn't serve time in jail, then later to make sure he didn't keep getting more animals.
These experiences have shaped my opinion that what hoarders need is HELP. A firm but caring band of supporters who can get help for the hoarder and the animals, as well as follow up frequently to make certain that 1) The hoarder is still getting help and 2) Conditions in the home have not gone downhill again.
I'm of the firm opinion that "throwing the book" at hoarders does NOTHING to help in the long run. Both of these people were loving, caring, genuinely GOOD people who I feel privileged to have met. Mental illness carries enough stigma in our society, it's time to extend an offer of help rather than condemn people for acts that were not entirely under their control.
Unfortunately, most hoarders DON'T get the treatment/support/follow up needed. It takes a HUGE amount of compassion, as well as a lot of resources, to do such a thing. I don't know what the solution is, since so many hoarders are popping up everywhere now. :( It breaks my heart, for the people and the pets involved.
Just a short note...my mother is a hoarder. Not of animals thank goodness but of everything else. Fining, throwing them in jail or any other form of what normal people consider "punishment" won't do anything. They are in a different world. You can correct the problem physically but it will only happen again regardless.
I do not understand it and it's frustrating as hell to deal with. I have seen tendencies in my siblings and myself to do the same and we are check points with each other to say "Enough"
Many hoarders are replacing emotions or people with things or animals. Unfortunately animals are living, feeling creatures. My mom's mom died when she was three. I'm sure there's a connection.
I'm just saying you can't judge before walking in those shoes...worse yet, in the shoes of those closest that have to deal with the consequences.
Claudia
I think it's so sad to see people do this to animals when they think they are 'helping' them. :(
They live in absolutely disgusting homes because of all the animals, and because there are so many of them, they are not properly taken care of. And how can that many animals all be given equal attention? It's just not possible!
I think I know an animal hoarder. She has 2 dogs, I think 2 cats, several birds, 2 large rabbits in cages that are waaayy to small, fish, hamsters, rats, etc. The house smells like animals, which I think is kinda gross. Her father used to own a small pet store down the street. That place was absolutely disgusting! It smelled horrible, was extremely dirty and dusty, had expired products on the shelves, and the part I hated, they sold puppies. :mad::mad:
I agree with what a lot of others above have said. These people have obvious mental health issues, and don't realize what they are doing and why it is cruel, wrong, and un-ethical.:(
(Quoting that part of the post you wrote... top and bottom included.)Quote:
Originally Posted by *LabLoverKEB*
Heartbreaking, is to put it mildly. I just cannot watch any of the t.v. shows on animal hoarding as it upsets me too much. The article that lizbud posted was painful to read, and wolfsoul's account of her grandmother was truly upsetting.
I just don't understand how once reasonable and intelligent people, can fall into such a state. All those poor animals. Sad - sad - sad..........:(
:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomtzu
I agree, I even skip past the commercials for it, so heartbreaking. Thankfully I do not personally know any hoarders, but it is simply tragic for human and animals when it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by pomtzu
You took the words out of my mouth, Karen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen
What made the difference for your friend is that she had people who knew her or of her and became PERSONALLY INVOLVED in both HER situation and that of the animals she had taken on. And they have carried on dealing both with her as a person and with her urges to take on more animals and will continue to do so as needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by snakemama
These kinds of personal saviors are not readily available to very many people in general out there, let alone to those in so much distress causing so much pain to innocent creatures. So how DO we solve this problem.. help these people and at the same time keep them from causing any more animals to suffer?