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Doesn't matter what political party you belong to, everyone should be
concerned with protecting our children from preditors. Please take a minute
to read about the Protect Our Children Act & contact your representative.
The agency fighting this needs to be fully funded. It needs to be a priority
for both parties. Thanks on behalf of all children.
http://www.oprah.com/article/oprahsh...tows_predators
So, warrantless surveillance by the federal government is bad if it's for national security reasons, but good if it's to protect the children?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
If it's to protect children,and it is, it's a good thing.
"People who are willing to sacrifice a little bit of freedom for a little bit of security, shall have nor DESERVE either."
Benjamin Franklin
I WAS a victim of sexual abuse as a child, and I can't get behind something so invasive. No way.
(OMG, do Puckstop and I agree on something?!)
:eek: LOL
My child's safety and security is MY responsibility. A responsibility that I take VERY seriously. Surely it is impossible to gurantee 100% safety, but with a little research and legwork you can do a lot of things to keep your children safe from predators. It all starts with responsible parenting. Something the bloody government needs to keep its hands out of.
"Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6
If the Federal Government continues with it's power grab in the realm of law enforcement, we may as well just disband State and local agencies, and have them all fall under the Federal law enforcement banner. After all, with packet switching networks, almost every communication made during the commission of a crime renders it as an interstate matter, and thus should be in the hands of Federal law enforcement anyway.
Then we could really accuse the police of being the Stazi.
Our children's protection is first and foremost OUR responsibility. Not government's. Frankly, I don't want either their help or interference in those matters.
Well, it's pretty clear that nobody who posted so far has even read the bill
that's being talked about. I hope that those who do look & read up on this
legislation decide to support efforts to stop the creation & distribution of
child porn in this country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizbud
My current career has me a Network Systems Engineer. This job has exposed me to situations where I am working on computers where the user has viewed/stored/created/distributed child pornography. Each and every time I have reported it to the police. Each and EVERY time, there never was the evidence or the will to procede with charges.
NOTHING the government or law enforcement can or WILL do can protect my daughter from this stuff more than I can.
Again I stress... Child safety from <insert horrible thing here> comes from PARENTS taking PERSONAL responsibility for THEIR child. Do not pass the buck to ANYone other than yourself.
No way in HELL will I allow MY childs wellbeing to be the responsibility of anyone other than myself or her mother. The idea of "it takes a village" is utter bullcrap. It takes parents who are willing to be their childs PARENTS and not their friend.
I love my daughter with every fiber of my soul. Right now (almost 1 year old) it is a lot of fun. But sooner or later she is going to be a challenge. not because of anything we do or do not do, but because of man's inherit nature.
I need to do just as the Bible tells me too. "Raise her up in the way that she should go." Ignore the religion in that... Look at the wisdom there in.
Liz, I went to Thomas and read the bill in toto.
There are no restrictions requiring a warrant before the "suspects" are monitored.
There are no restrictions on the definition of "images of child abuse".
It's far too open ended, and leaves too much open for interpretation.
Puck'ster, and LH, to a tiny degree:
The safety and security of OUR children is OUR responsibility. I strongly disagree that the safety and security of YOUR child is YOUR responsibility, alone. Children, one day, leave the clutches of their parents..be it preschool, day care, field trips, sporting events, etc. No way can a single parent- no matter how viligant- be the single source eye/ear for their child. If only.
I want ANY one looking after my child, in the event I am not present. Right now, Jonah is in preschool. I would want the teacher/aide/administrator/ volunteer in the classroom to immediately call 241-kids (our hotline here, locally) if they suspected something afoul.
I realize that the two of you weren't really not saying otherwise (nice double negative), but, I do want to point out that it is more than "responsible parenting" or "being careful" that needs to be done. I do think children need special protection- without any comment being made on the particular bill up for discussion. I didn't read it.
I understand what you are trying to say. Still, I would rather trust myself of my wife to investigate the people our child will be with when we are not there. There are a lot of tools at our disposal to look into coaches /teachers /etc criminal/ whatever history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataholic
Also, please do not misunderstand me. I am not going to smother our child and be fearful at every step. We are just not going to "trust" the 'system' to be responsible, all on it's own. If/when Hannah wants to get into sports (etc), you better belive I am going to check into the coaches and staff's background, as much as is legal. Also, Hannah is going to be homeschooled until at least age 12. We are blessed to have access to a wonderful, faith based, homeschool group near us. The group is really neat. They have field trips, group sessions and such. The high school age kids even have a PROM. LOL And yes, I plan on digging into the background of the other homeschool parents who teach the certain subjects they are proficient in.
The Libertarian in me just fully distrusts anything the government does. LOL
Indeed they do. We just disagree, sorta, on what that special protection should be. To us, it is simple. God commands parents to raise their children up in the way that they should go. Parents, not the community. Community is important, but at the end of the day, the parents are responsible.Quote:
I realize that the two of you weren't really not saying otherwise (nice double negative), but, I do want to point out that it is more than "responsible parenting" or "being careful" that needs to be done. I do think children need special protection- without any comment being made on the particular bill up for discussion. I didn't read it.
Of course this does not guarantee Hannah will be perfect or even grow to be a confident, self reliant, honorable person. But it sure increases the odds.
Anyone who wants additional information or find answers to questions
concerning S.B. 1738 , can check this //www.protect.org/childPornography/
It has links to the bill language itself & a Q & A section for law inforcement
personnel. Children need to be a priority.They are our future. Please help
by asking your Senators to support the bill.
It's good to know these creeps don't always slip through the cracks.
This man worked for our local FOX network as a film & camera tech.
Police: Indy Man Had Thousands Of Child Porn Images, Movies
Man Also Accused Of Distributing Child Porn
POSTED: 11:34 am EDT October 4, 2008
UPDATED: 12:03 pm EDT October 4, 2008
INDIANAPOLIS -- An Indianapolis man went before a federal judge on Friday to answer to charges of possessing and distributing child pornography.
Michael Wildridge, 40, had thousands of images and movies of child pornography on his home computer, according to the affidavit, including depictions of children as young as infants and numerous children engaged in explicit sexual conduct.
He was also accused of distributing child pornography to a former resident of Miami Beach, Fla., who was sentenced to federal prison for the crime, according to the affidavit.
Wildridge’s arrest was the result of a joint investigation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, along with authorities in Hamilton County, Brownsburg and Indianapolis.
Wildridge was arrested at his home on Friday morning and appeared before U.S. Magistrate Judge Kennard P. Foster in Indianapolis on Friday afternoon. He was ordered held in custody pending a detention hearing on Wednesday at 2 p.m.
OMG. :eek::eek: You can't tell who it might be by just looking.
My prayers for those children and their parents! I hope they heal.
What an unspeakable and brutal betrayal of trust and abuse of position. :mad::mad::mad:
As a public school teacher, I so do not understand the homeschool idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstop31
Why limit the child to homebound education? What about the socialization that she or he would receive going to a public or private school?
I know that here, in PA, a homeschooled child can petition the schoolboard and be a part of the sports teams. Personally, I don't think they should be allowed to. You want to join the school's football, baseball, or whatever team, come to school. Your mom and dad want you to be educated at home, then tough luck.
I also don't think that the state should foot the bill for your child's education if you decide to school at home. Sorry. You want to school your child at home, foot the bill yourself. Not saying that you and your wife will do that, but most homeschooler rely on the state for funding (computers for the child and such).
Public and private schools give kids foundations for being well rounded kids. You can't get that from a homebound education. The opportunities for classes, and diversity in curriculum and not to mention diversity of the student population as well, you just don't get that with a home based education.
Granted we have problems with teachers in public and private schools, but you have that in any job/career you look at. You can have it in homebound education as well. We need to have better screenings for the people who are teaching our kids. The fact that we have so many that are being arrested as drug users, or sexual abusers, is just horrible. There needs to be a better way to track these things, and make sure those types of predators aren't working with children (it would be nice if they didn't exist at all). I just don't see that limiting a child's education to the home as an answer.
If the public schools are really that bad in your area, I'd look into the private schools, where at least Hannah would have the ability to meet other kids, be involved in school sports and get those socialization skills.
Ahhh Jenn... Where do I start? I could pen PAGES and PAGES about this, but I will keep it brief. All I ask is that you please read all of this before you make up your mind.
1.) First and foremost... Because we CAN, and because we CHOOSE to. (You are pro-choice, no?)
2.) Because of teachers unions, our public schools are the center of political debate. Teachers unions, more than any other factor, ruin it. The excellent tachers can't get raises, the loser can't be fired... You go on strike, in the middle of the year beacause you won't get a 7% (really, who gets a 7% raise???) raise... Or have to actualyl pay a portion of your health benefits. You say you care about the children, I say BULLCRAP. If you cared about the kids, there would never be a strike during the school year.
3.) Public schools refuse to discipline.
4.) Public schools teach things the "PC" way, rather than the correct way.
5.) Homeschooling allows us to teach Hannah in the way that she can learn best, not to the lowest common denominator in the class.
6.) We can tell Hannah when she has failed, and then bring her back up from it.
7.) I trust the local co-op of 400+ students, whose parents have CHOSEN to take on the burden of their child's education more than some bureaucrat who is just looking to advance a career.
8.) In PA, property taxes are used to fund schools. We never OWN our homes, we rent them. Recently, a 83 year old man in Camp Hill was EVICTED from his 5 GENERATION farm, worht about half a million dollars... For failure to pay 20K in back taxes. They sold the farm at auction... AND KEPT THE EXTRA.
9.) Trust me... Hannah will be properly socialized with children who are raised with discipline and taught to have respect. "Show me your friends and I will show you your future."
10.) Don't worry... NOT ONE DIME of public money will be used to educate Hannah. I would not take it if they gave it to me.
11.) There are PLENTY of socialization options for her, short of school. Church, Gymboree, the co-op group parents, township (non-school) sports, the YMCA....
Jenn, it's about choice. We are blessed by the fact that Tanya can stay home with Hannah. Lord willing, we will be able to continue that with our future children.
It all comes back to Proverbs 22:6. "Train a child in the way he should go, so that when he is old, he will not depart from it."
We believe that public schools fail, miserably, at this. I could go into many more pages about just what that verse means... But I will spare you. I will send you a CD set of 6 sermons my moms pastor gave on it if you like. VERY little religion in it... Just WISDOM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenn_librarian
See you and I have completely opposite views on this. I feel "why limit children to the confines of public education" It tells them what they can learn, when, how, and if they are excelling or having trouble they are stuck sitting in a class that either bores them or that they just don't understand and the opportunity for personalized lessons are very slim. which then leaves parents to hire a tutor or take on the responsibility of helping the child learn it on their terms anyway. So I am just taking out the middleman.
I think your view on homeschooling is based on very limited experience with it. It is not just Hannah holed up in the basement and never allowed to see the light of day.
We have a local homeschool group here (parent funded not government funded) that consists of 400 students. Last year they organized a prom for the graduating students. I have the ability to teach Hannah at home... some other children may come for certain classes or I may send hannah to some of the other parents classes. Specialized classes like second languages and such are usually taught by one or two parents a few days a week... In these classes Hannah will be with other children. Weekly field trips and gatherings also ensure she will be with many other children. Not the mention the MANY various groups, clubs, sports, play groups etc that exsist in this area. homeschooled children SURELY aren't hurting for socialization... public school is NOT the be all end all of socialization. will it be a lot of work on my part? It sure will ... but I will bust my hump to do it right.
As for homeschool getting government funding... We will NOT be using government funding. HOWEVER, why shoudln't we? We have to pay taxes to public education whether we use it or not. we don't get a choice. our money goes to public schools. So ... why SHOULDN'T I see some of that back without being forced to use public school? why should the government foot the bill for homeschoolers? why should homeschoolers foot the bill for public schools that we don't use? As for putting kids in school sports... I'm not for or against that. I don't see the big deal either way. but there are SO many sports organizations around that we won't have to rely on the public school sports programs.
I think you might be looking at the world through rose colored glasses here. I DON'T think public schools give kids foundations for being well rounded. There are A LOT of children who don't fit the nice little package the public school system tries to put them in. No matter how much they try... a square peg just ISN"T going to fit into a round hole. I will give Hannah the foundation to be a well rounded childQuote:
Public and private schools give kids foundations for being well rounded kids. You can't get that from a homebound education. The opportunities for classes, and diversity in curriculum and not to mention diversity of the student population as well, you just don't get that with a home based education.
Homeschooling allows me to tailor Hannah's lessons to suit her the best... to help her learn in the best way possible for HER... not the best way for Johnny or Sally... the best way for HANNAH. If she is struggling on a subject I can take as much time as needed to help her GET IT... she won't just drown in a 30 student classroom before I am notified that she is struggling. If she is excelling in another subject I don't need to spend 6 weeks going over something she already gets to make sure everyone ELSE gets it. We can do the work and move on.
And last but not least... We will be homeschooling because WE believe it is in her best interest... NOT to make anyone else happy or to change anyone else's mind about homeschooling. but I will NOT pay the price for homeschoolers who are dishonest or just don't put the work into it and I will NOT have hannah pay the price for TEACHERS who are dishonest or don't care to put the work into it. You can compare all homeschoolers to the poor examples out there but that will make no difference to me in how I teach my daughter and help her become a well rounded RESPECTFUL person.
Puck and Sparks, you two totally answered the "comments" posted WAY more compassionately and without defensiveness than I could ever have done. And, to boot, I am not a fan of homeschooling MY child. I just like to be a little less judgmental about what other people do with their own.
But, Puck- I still don't want you to own guns. :)
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataholic
As for the guns thing... I put my self on probation, so I will leave that alone. This time. LOL
:)
Thank you :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataholic
I think we are just used to having our choice questioned because a lot of people don't really understand how far homeschooling has come and how different and diverse it can be if you are willing to put the work into it. this isn't a decision that we just one day said "HEY let's homeschool" we have done a lot of research, talked to A LOT of people who homeschool and A LOT of people who don't, read everything we find about it...
I'm not out to get anyone else's approval or to try to change their mind but I am more than happy to give a little more background on what homeschooling really can be beause a lot of people just don't really have a clear understanding. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstop31
Ah....probation. It can be a good thing at times. :) Just give yourself time off for good behaviour!
Well I have to totally agree with you guys on your decision to homeschool Hannah. I homeschool two of my children and one goes to public school. The oldest didn't want to home school so she was given the choice. All three of my children have been given the choice, and they are HAPPY in home school.
As far as the socialization they get in public school....yes that was great for my son's self esteem to be called a girl by his teacher because the red dye we used in his hair for halloween turned pink and took a few days to wash out. It was great for his self esteem to be beaten up in school and have his backback straps cut in half, his assignments stolen by the "bullies" and torn up so he failed many of his classes. It was GREAT for him to have that kind of interaction to beat him down when he defended another child who was being picked on. The school did NOTHING to help me with the problems, even though they were given the names of the children and we had NUMEROUS meetings with teachers and school personally. My son, in home school is now getting As and Bs and is HAPPY not to be subjected to the torment.
He is in a /gasp! state funded homeschool online charter school and yes, we got a computer for it, but guess what?? I pay my taxes for education, I am as entitled to use those taxes to fund my child's at home education as those who send their children to public school use our taxes there.
My youngest child is happy in home school, she has also been in public school. They have learned SO much more than they learned when they were in public school. My son told me he learned more in two months worth of home school than he ever did in public. He has teachers for each class, has online discussions with other students in his classes, he belong to the Boy Scouts in our area, so yes, he gets his socialization, he just doesn't have to have the torment and BS than can sometimes go along with public school.
Everyone has their own ideas about what is best for their child, but I think it is wrong to dictate to someone else they are wrong in their decisions, and do not have the right to school funding assistance from the government for programs available if they choose to home school. I honeslty feel my children are better served by home schooling than they were ever served by public schooling.
As sparks mentioned, they were lost in a seas of large class sizes, didn't get the help they needed when tey didn't understand, and their eudcation suffered. We can spend as long as we need to on difficult things and explain things in ways they can understand now.
Sparks and Puckstop, you made some great points about why homeschooling can be such a great thing for those who choose to go that route. I think it's great that we are able to have such a choice, whether it be for home schooling or public schooling.
This is all way off topic, but I believe parents do have a right to practice
it if they are up to it. It's a BIG responsibility. A child is only young & curious
to learn in their younger years & the chance to enhance that spirit of learning does fade as they grow older. IMO.
I really believe we were blessed to have great schools (not like some are
today). Both my kids did well with the teachers & developed friendships
that have lasted through their adult years. :)
Vela,
My heart breaks for your poor son. I see it all too often in the public schools here, and this bullying seems to start younger and younger.
Just recieved this email fron Indiana Senator Lugar this morning. Great news.
Dear Ms. XXXXXXXX
Thank you for sharing with me your support for S. 1738, the
Combating Child Exploitation Act of 2008. I share your support for
this important legislation, and I signed on as a co-sponsor of this bill.
I am pleased that President Bush recently signed this bill into law.
Any crime is disturbing, but those that victimize children are
particularly reprehensible. I believe that children are our most
precious resource, deserving of the protections we, as caring adults,
are committed to afford them. Over the years, with my strong
support, legislation has been enacted to provide our communities
with greater protections from child predators by giving law
enforcement the tools needed to fight this scourge. However, we
must continually review ways to combat this problem.
S. 1738 seeks to protect children from exploitation by
directing the Attorney General to create and implement a National
Strategy for Child Exploitation Prevention and Interdiction to
coordinate the prevention strategies of the Department of Justice,
U.S. Attorneys, and the FBI. The bill also authorizes $320 million in
additional federal funding to assist local law enforcement officials in
investigating and prosecuting these heinous crimes.
Thank you, again, for contacting me on this important
issue.
Sincerely,
Richard G. Lugar
United States Senator
And another bit of freedom goes into the trashcan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
But you are "safer" now. It's better to be 'safe', than free, right? :(
Better to be safe than free?
ROFLMAO!
Surely you know I was saying that in jest. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
We are only promised life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
Yeah, just like laws reguiring stop lights on corners of busy roads, and
laws requiring us to pay to have our streets cleaned & the trash picked up.
This sharing of information between agencies can help stop the creeps
from abusing the world's children, I say go for it.I am so happy that a very
well respected, Sen Richard Lugar, co-sponsered the bill.
:rolleyes:There's a big difference between basic public safety and opening the door to more surveillance by big brother.
Funny, I remember someone complaining about a similar bill, except it was a bill which required warrants (which this doesn't) and requiring specific court oversight of the monitoring agencies (which this doesn't).
IIRC it was called the patriot act?
Oh, right, I forget, that was a bill supported by the current President, so it must have been bad. My mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
Strange, but I don't remember you condemming the patriot act.:rolleyes:
Here's another "undercover investigation" that paid off. Are you going to complain about the tactics of these agencies too?
LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Dozens of burly, tattoo-covered members of the Mongol motorcycle gang were arrested Tuesday by federal agents in six states after a three-year investigation in which undercover agents infiltrated the group.
Agents raid the home of former Mongols motorcycle gang leader Ruben Cavazos.
1 of 2 At least 38 members of the Southern California-based Mongol Motorcycle Club were arrested under a federal racketeering indictment that included charges of murder, said Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives spokesman Mike Hoffman.
During some arrests, sharpshooters stood guard on surrounding rooftops as motorcycles were lined up and confiscated.
"It's going to be a large hit to their organization. We are arresting many of their top members," Hoffman said.
Among those arrested was the gang's former national president, Ruben Cavazos.
Federal and local agents had 110 federal arrest warrants and 160 search warrants that were being served across Southern California and in Nevada, Oregon, Colorado, Washington and Ohio. The sweep, dubbed Operation Black Rain, was to continue throughout the day Tuesday, agents said.
Hoffman said the Mongols had been recruiting members of Los Angeles street gangs to assist in their operations.
The Mongols are primarily Latino and formed because the Hells Angels refused to allow Hispanic members.
Four ATF agents infiltrated the gang and were accepted as full members, a difficult process that requires winning the trust of the gang's top leaders over a period of months, Hoffman said.
The agents were required to live away from their families in homes set up to make it look like they lived a Mongols lifestyle, Hoffman said. Four undercover female agents also were involved in the operation, pretending to be biker girlfriends and attending parties with the agents; women are not allowed to become full members of the gang.
"If you go to a party all the time and you don't ever bring a girl around, it's kind of weird," Hoffman said. "Someone might get suspicious."
To be accepted in the gang, the agents had to run errands and were subject to a background check by private detectives.
At Cavazos' home in West Covina, about 18 miles east of Los Angeles, a red custom-modified Harley-Davidson motorbike sat outside. No occupants were home, but several police and ATF agents were seen going through items in the house.
Cavazos wrote a memoir titled "Honor Few, Fear None: The Life and Times of a Mongol," published by HarperCollins in June.
HarperCollins publicist Sarah Burningham in New York said she handles only book-related issues for Cavazos but would forward an e-mail from The Associated Press requesting comment.
At least 22 motorcycles were on display outside the Los Angeles Police Department's main building Tuesday morning. All were modified, chrome-covered Harleys with custom artwork. One had a fiberglass skull on the clutch; another's kick stand had been modified to make it look like bird talons. Several bore Mongols insignia.
Las Vegas police reported serving several warrants at homes in southern Nevada, where five men were in federal custody pending an appearance before a federal magistrate, said Natalie Collins, spokeswoman for the U.S. attorney's office in Las Vegas.
In 2002, a Mongols member got two to five years in Nevada state prison for his part in a casino brawl with Hells Angels during a biker rally. Three people died in the fight.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or
Note the word in there...."warrant".....it's conspicious in it's absence in the bill you championed.
I'm not a huge fan of the Patriot Act, but at least A) There's a sunset clause in it, and B) There are specific requirements in the law requiring warrants and court oversight.
The mongol story is a bit different that surfing the 'net for child porn.
Put it this way, there is zero tolerance for child predators amongst any biker or group of bikers. This case is different-these are "grownups" doing each other injustice.
Gosh, I sure hope that law enforcement had all the proper warrants before snagging these creeps.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6121646
So do I. Your point?
Personally, I could care less. I haven't done anything wrong and have nothing to hide. So, surveillance used to help any suspicious activity, ESPECIALLLY predators of children AND animals I'm all for.