There is no way to know if Sarah Palin would be a good or a bad vice-president or pre

There is no way to know if Sarah Palin would be a good or a bad vice-president or president, but I am of the opinion that she cannot do both jobs -- mother of five and vice-president -- and do them both well. If you disagree with this statement then I submit that you are saying that neither motherhood nor the vice-president is a full-time job.

Not having been either a mother or vice-president I would have no direct knowledge of my assertion. My statement is only a suggestion. Am I wrong? Can a woman be a full-time mom and a full-time vice-president? With a less than one-year old child with Down's Syndrome?

Can someone be a full time Dad and a full time (fill in the blank).

Yep.

It's multitasking, people have been doing it for centuries.

Besides, she also has a husband to help out with things, and she wouldn't be without other help as well.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

Can someone be a full time Dad and a full time (fill in the blank).

Yep.

It's multitasking, people have been doing it for centuries.

Besides, she also has a husband to help out with things, and she wouldn't be without other help as well.

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It only takes five minues to be a dad.:rolleyes:

I am not a dad either (not that I know of), but if I had a Down's Syndrome child and her money I wouldn't do anything else with my time. All of my time would be spent with that child. I cannot see a woman who has such a child wanting to do anything else. There is something wrong with a woman who would.

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Originally Posted by Willow Oak

I am of the opinion that she cannot do both jobs --
mother of five and vice-president -- and do them both well.

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Are you of a like opinion with the two DADs who desire the Top Spot?

Both being DADs with kids ... how are they going to 'manage' to cope
with being DADs and being Presidential?

I'm not so sure that being a Mom -OR- a Dad should be a deal-breaker
for holding a high elected position in government.

But I could be wrong ...
;)

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Originally Posted by Willow Oak

It only takes five minues to be a dad.:rolleyes:

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This is one of the saddest statements I have heard in a long time. If my husband had this attitude, I would have never had a child with him. I sure hope you never have any kids :(

I am sorry that you have the attitude that there is something wrong with a mother who works. This whole thread amazes me.....

How do we know ANY of them will be good presidents/VPs? I imagine you are the kind of person who would not vote for a woman :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Willow Oak

Am I wrong? Can a woman be a full-time mom and a full-time vice-president? With a less than one-year old child with Down's Syndrome?

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Yes, you are wrong. Women, even women with special needs children, have been performing all the the tasks of motherhood and working full-time jobs for outside companies for many many years now and done excellent jobs at both. They are not mutually exclusive positions.

My cousin and his wife have two boys; the youngest is about 2 years old, and Colton is about 6. Colton has Down's.

Both parents work outside the home - but Mom has every Friday off just for badly needed free time. They can't afford extra help.

WO, I know that it takes "5 minutes to 'father a child' ", but BEING a father/dad and participating in that child's life are two different things. It would be like you taking a few minutes to get a new pet and fully expecting someone else to take on the full time care and loving of it.

You actually are a good father to your pets.

SADLY, however, in many parts of society the burden (and joy) of raising the children falls to the mother. Economics being what they are, often the woman's wage would be lower than the man's, so they stay at home while dad works. It makes economic sense.

Sarah Palin has been a full time politician for many many years. With her husband there, and older children, they can participate in helping with each other, the house, in addition to the baby with Down's. BUT I bet you anything they also have a nanny, and some form of daycare for the baby. They can afford all the help they need.

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I cannot see a woman who has such a child wanting to do anything else. There is something wrong with a woman who would.

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WHOA. I suggest you attend the next public event of your local chapter of a Down's organization and ask a few questions. Dan, you are WAY too smart to be this ignorant. ;) Time to re-educate yourself!:p

http://www.cmdss.org/ - you're in time for the Buddy Walk on October 11 2008.

http://www.cmdss.org/Advice/Links.html

Lurk on these boards and see what you find out:
http://dailystrength.org/c/Down-Syndrome/support-group

List of forums here - UpsnDowns is an international one; my cousin and his wife are involved with this. There is also a forum for DADS: D.A.D.S. Dads Appreciating Down Syndrome
http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query...=-1&sg=10&ss=1

http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query...=-1&sg=20&ss=1

http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query...=-1&sg=30&ss=1

There is your open-book test. You can pick any study pages you want. At the bottom of each of these pages is a "previous-next" link, so you can search for more if you wish. Who knows? Likely some of them are discussing the Sarah Palin topic as well.

Have compassion - after all, people are animals too. ;):love:

I think the point to consider here, is that that are millions of women who are mothers and hold down a full time job also. However, the majority of these jobs are Mon-Fri, 9-5. I went that route myself. Unfortunately in the position of v.p. - this ain't gonna happen. Consider just the travel involved when she is called upon to venture to a foreign country for days and more at a time, meetings and summits, burning the midnight oil with top officials at home, etc, etc, etc. I think that is what Willow Oak was referring to....

pomtzu - and then Sarah, if she is VP, will do what other White House couples do - schedule time for them and their kids, and hire staff to do the rest.

Which I think they do already.

I don't see why Sarah is being singled out - former First Ladies don't have much time to be a hausfrau either. White House couples, period, aren't full time parents. They can't be. At least they don't have "latchkey kids".

Too many working couples these days do have the latchkey kids, or are spending tons of money on daycare. (SOME couples have looked at their finances and found it is actually cheaper for one parent to stay home!)

The reason I reponded to Dan the way I did was that he seemed to put the burden of this on the female, ergo:

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I cannot see a woman who has such a child wanting to do anything else. There is something wrong with a woman who would.

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And nothing wrong with a man who would?

That's my point.:)

Sorry, pomtzu, I have to disagree, there are many many mothers who hold down full-time jobs (even 48 hours a week) that are not 9-5 jobs. That actually may make it easier to do both jobs more efficiently, since we all know that being a mother is not a job that only exists from 5-9. Being able to deal with work pressures and family issues is something that millions of women do on a daily basis. And some of them do it without as much support as Palin has. Is Palin one of the women who is able to do that? I have no idea. Does being a mother of five children, one of those children being a special needs child, mean that she is unable to perform the duties of the Vice President? Absolutely not.

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Originally Posted by Catty1

I don't see why Sarah is being singled out - former First Ladies don't have much time to be a hausfrau either. White House couples, period, aren't full time parents. They can't be. At least they don't have "latchkey kids".

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"Sarah" is being singled out because she has a child that is going to need more time, care, and energy than most children need. Her child is going to have many health, learning, growth, and behavioral problems as she grows. We really can't pretend that this child needs the same amount of time and care as any other child. She cannot do things with this child that you can with other children, and you cannot, and should not want to have "staff" do it either. However, as I have stated women have been doing both for decades.

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Originally Posted by Willow Oak

It only takes five minues to be a dad.:rolleyes:

I am not a dad either (not that I know of), but if I had a Down's Syndrome child and her money I wouldn't do anything else with my time. All of my time would be spent with that child. I cannot see a woman who has such a child wanting to do anything else. There is something wrong with a woman who would.

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Now THAT is a load of BULL. It takes a lot more than just 5 minutes to be a dad.

Brian is a VERY devoted father and he spends every moment he can with Hannah. I bet if he had the option of me working and him staying at home he would. he is VERY capable of caring for her. he knows her just as well as I do and she absolutely ADORES him. Most of the time she prefers him over me... MOST of the time. If I had to leave town for a couple of days I am MORE than confident that Hannah's care would be met and EXCEEDED with her father in charge. I even get to sleep until noon on the weekends when he is home because he gets up early with her, changes her, gets her dressed, feeds her, plays with her etc etc etc. And it's a lot more than 5 minutes ;)

There are LOTS of stay at home fathers out there and they are wonderful at it. There are LOTS of working mothers out there and they manage to have a full time job and be a fulltime parent as well. There are LOTS of single parents who don't have the other parent to help out and they work full time and can be full time parents.

I am a SAHM and I am very lucky to be able to be one... but not every mother can or wants to be a SAHM. If I had to go back to work do I think Hannah would suffer or that I would be less of a mother? not a CHANCE. I certainly don't think mothers who work are failing their children.

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It only takes five minues to be a dad.

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What?


What the hell? When did we step back to the 18th century?

I'm going to respect the Mayor's rules and leave colorful language out of this. Anyone who thinks this should never be a parent. Both my wife and I shoulder the responsibility of raising the kids, and without a joint effort it would be tough at best.

Parenting is a joint effort. Can Barack Obama be a full time dad to his kids and be POTUS? A man with children should devote all his time to the kids, I can't imagine a man who has chidren wanting to do anything else.

It's the 21st century, bub. Care to join it?

Whoa!!! I didn't say I AGREED with Willow Oak - just that I thought that was the point he was trying to make - thus the examples I cited. And of course not every job is 9-5, Mon-Fri. I should have said MOST are 40 hr per week jobs. Sorry I didn't make my post more clear than I did. :(

Hmmmm,


I guess the First Dude of Alaska don't count as a parent?

As I stated in another thread. If people are so hot to watch her fail, vote her in. They should put their money where their mouths are. Simple as that.

Instead of conjecture, MAKE IT SO, like Captain Picard would say.

I think that more people are scared that she will succeed.

I've got no kids, man vegetables and she I know she's got bigger bits that I could ever dream of for THINKING about taking a job that serious.

pomtzu - I was agreeing that there would be extra time away from home. Didn't mean to sound like you agreed with this. But just that that kind of schedule would affect ANY White House couple - and no one raises the same concerns about the man in the situation.

For example - if it was Sarah's husband who was running mate, I don't think this thread would even have come up, because 'the wife' would be there to take up the domestic slack. Her husband would have the same potentially crazy schedule - but a lot of these questions would not have come up.

I just wanted to point out the double standard, that's all. :) I didn't mean to make you feel bad. I'm sorry.

Ginger's Mom - sorry to disagree, but I think Sarah Palin is being singled out because she is FEMALE.

As I posted a minute ago, if the situation was the same and her HUSBAND was running mate, this thread would never have happened.

JMO

I stand by my OP, and follow-up. Most of these responses have been made without giving any thought to what I said: "If I had a Down's Syndrome child and her money ... "

All right. We live in a society where both parents work. I don't agree with it, but that's where we are. And I don't care if every person on the face of this earth disagrees with me. Any woman who has a Down's Syndrome child -- especially if the child is less that one year old -- that could stay at home full-time but would prefer to work full time is not being a good mother.

A bunch of cats with claws! If you have children -- stay home with them, love them and rear them properly! What's wrong with you?

As for the person who suggested that I would never vote for a woman: you've revealed that you have a problem with men. You presume that because I am a man that I wouldn't vote for a woman. You don't have any idea what I would do or for whom I would vote. I could vote for Sarah Palin, but any woman with five children -- one a less than one-year-old Down Sundrome child -- has no business being vice-president or anything else. Go home and take care of that child! Leave it to a nanny? That's what's wrong with this world -- leave the responsibility to someone else.

You talk all concerned, and I may be ignorant, as you say, but you would never do what I do. Phooey on you!

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

What?


What the hell? When did we step back to the 18th century?

I'm going to respect the Mayor's rules and leave colorful language out of this. Anyone who thinks this should never be a parent. Both my wife and I shoulder the responsibility of raising the kids, and without a joint effort it would be tough at best.

Parenting is a joint effort. Can Barack Obama be a full time dad to his kids and be POTUS? A man with children should devote all his time to the kids, I can't imagine a man who has chidren wanting to do anything else.

It's the 21st century, bub. Care to join it?

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Bravo LH.:) On this subject, we are in total agreement.:)

Well I assume that this was all talked out between Sarah and her hubby before she accepted the slot on the ticket. It might involve a move to Washington or lots of travel on her part back and forth. I have no doubt that she can raise this child while being VP if she has a good support system in place which it seems that she does.

The only time I questioned whether someone should run for high office or not was when Sen. Edwards was running since his wife is dealing with terminal cancer. I thought he might want to spend all of the time that she has left with her. Well of course it seems that he had some other ideas about where he should spend some of his time anyway. :rolleyes:

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A bunch of cats with claws! If you have children -- stay home with them, love them and rear them properly! What's wrong with you?

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You really have no damned idea who you're talking to.

Here's a buck, go buy a clue.

Hey, hey - this is till Pet Talk, remember.

I am of the opinion that every family is different. And you know what? Every Down's baby is different as well. Each has a different range of abilities and challenges. And she is not a single parent.

I do not know her youngest child's specifics. I do know, however, that he has four older siblings and a father as well as a mother.

As to your statement that "it only takes 5 minutes to be a father?" We refer to that as being a "sperm donor." Fatherhood takes a lot more time and effort.

Many mothers work two jobs to be able to raise their children, clothe and feed them. So do many fathers. Is this ideal? No. But does it mean their kids will turn out to be less than good citizens? Certainly not.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

You really have no damned idea who you're talking to.

Here's a buck, go buy a clue.

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In your case I think I do have a clue.

Now I know that we all make typos here. No big deal, but grammatical errors or inexcuseable. It should be: "You have no idea to whom you are talking." Never end a sentence with a preposition.

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Originally Posted by Karen

Hey, hey - this is till Pet Talk, remember.

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Are you suggesting that I have violated some rules or code of ethics? If so, please so state and I shall leave Pet Talk to you and yours forever.

This is just a very sexist way of thinking, this is 2008 a father can do just as good a job as a mother. The one that can earn the money should go out and do that and the other can parent, doesn't matter the sex of that said person.

I'm not going to bite my tongue while this fool speaks.

It offends me as a father who takes just a tad more than 5 minutes a day to be a father.

It offends me as the son of someone who took just a few more than 5 minutes to be a father.

Parenting is a joint effort. While I'm typing this, my wife is working, and I'm taking care of our children. I also worked last night, and put in 50-60 hours/week. Does that disqualify me from being a father? No.

Regardless of whether my wife was working or not, I'd be active in parenting. It's a sad commentary on society that this pervasive crap that a woman's place is in the kitchen still exists.

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Originally Posted by Catty1

I just wanted to point out the double standard, that's all. :) I didn't mean to make you feel bad. I'm sorry.

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You didn't - I feel bad for not making myself clear. :(

Double standard is right - along with caveman mentality - man work, woman raise kids! :eek:

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Originally Posted by Willow Oak

Are you suggesting that I have violated some rules or code of ethics? If so, please so state and I shall leave Pet Talk to you and yours forever.

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No, you have not violated any rules, not yet. But I wanted to point that out in the thread before it had a chance to get any nastier.

Basically, no name-calling, no disparaging of others', just remember we can talk about different opinions and still remain respectful of each other as human beings.

That's all that meant. Political discussions tend to get nasty fast - in the real world, and sometimes even faster in "cyberspace" - so I wanted to remind everyone, as the rest know I do from time to time, that this is Pet Talk. If you want to engage in nastiness and flames wars and mud-flinging, there are plenty of sites devoted to politics that permit and even welcome that.

This is Pet Talk, where we do sometimes discuss politics, but mainly it is a board about pets!

And I don't even know what or if the Palin household has any pets! ;)

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Originally Posted by pomtzu

You didn't - I feel bad for not making myself clear. :(

Double standard is right - along with caveman mentality - man work, woman raise kids! :eek:

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Personally, I like the caveman mentality: knock woman over head with club. Drag woman back to cave. :rolleyes:

On behalf of every father whom is truly a father and not an egg donor I wholeheartedly disagree with your statements. There are lots of idiot mothers whom are egg donors also.

Oh my goodness!!! What is happening here? This discussion is getting very nasty.

Willow Oak: I'm personally glad you've joined this board and glad to see what you do. What you're saying is going to cause flames to erupt. Please calm down.

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Originally Posted by Willow Oak

Personally, I like the caveman mentality: knock woman over head with club. Drag woman back to cave. :rolleyes:

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Rule of thumb?
If you do drag anyone back to a cave, do it by the hair. If you drag them by the ankles they get dirt stuck in all kinds of strange places.:confused:

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Personally, I like the caveman mentality: knock woman over head with club. Drag woman back to cave.

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I have a feeling this was ever so slightly tongue-in-cheek?;)

Unconscious women are really not very responsive. You need to set your standards a little higher! :p

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Originally Posted by Daisy and Delilah

Oh my goodness!!! What is happening here? This discussion is getting very nasty.

Willow Oak: I'm personally glad you've joined this board and glad to see what you do. What you're saying is going to cause flames to erupt. Please calm down.

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If flames erupt it won't be my fault. I think a mother with a Down's Syndrome child should stay home with it -- especially if she has the financial means to do so.

I do not apologize for my stance, and I will not back down from it. Just like I don't back down from rescuing animals ... in the face of the criticism I get from people like Larry and others (albeit Larry has changed his tune).

Phooey on!

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Originally Posted by Catty1

Unconscious women are really not very responsive. You need to set your standards a little higher! :p

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Touche'!
Does it apply to men who immediately roll over and go to sleep?:D

I have a very good friend with a down's syndrome child who works and she is a wonderful mother. Her daughter goes to school all day, are you implying down's children should not go to school?

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Originally Posted by Willow Oak

In your case I think I do have a clue.

Now I know that we all make typos here. No big deal, but grammatical errors or inexcuseable. It should be: "You have no idea to whom you are talking." Never end a sentence with a preposition.

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Originally Posted by Willow Oak

Down Sundrome

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:p:p:p

I figure I would stay at the level of your, ummmm, "point".

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

:p:p:p

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LMAO!

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Originally Posted by Willow Oak

As for the person who suggested that I would never vote for a woman: you've revealed that you have a problem with men. You presume that because I am a man that I wouldn't vote for a woman. You don't have any idea what I would do or for whom I would vote. I could vote for Sarah Palin, but any woman with five children -- one a less than one-year-old Down Sundrome child -- has no business being vice-president or anything else. Go home and take care of that child! Leave it to a nanny? That's what's wrong with this world -- leave the responsibility to someone else.

You talk all concerned, and I may be ignorant, as you say, but you would never do what I do. Phooey on you!

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No, I presume that you would never vote for a woman because of your statements. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are a man. I am absolutely appalled and disgusted by some of your statements.

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I stand by my OP, and follow-up. Most of these responses have been made without giving any thought to what I said: "If I had a Down's Syndrome child and her money ...

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No, we all read what you said. Why you would think that would make any difference is beyond me.

There are a lot of working mothers who are fantastic mothers, and for you to imply that a woman can't be both is barbaric. I can think of one wonderful, respected member of this board that is a single mother and is also an attorney. She loves her child more than anything in the world, and she is a wonderful mother. She, and others like her, are not 'passing the responsibility' on to someone else. They work harder, both in their jobs and at home, than you will ever know.

LH, I am glad to see you weighing in on this....if my DH were to read this he would be just as upset. It takes SO MUCH MORE than 5 minutes to be a father, and I am just shocked that anyone would make such a statement.

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Originally Posted by caseysmom

LMAO!

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LMAO!

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

:p:p:p

I figure I would stay at the level of your, ummmm, "point".

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Yes, talk about the pot calling the kettle black......:rolleyes: