Child killer smiles as he hears sentence

I remember this...I am not in favour of capital punishment unless the guilt is beyond a doubt...as in this case. JMO - "rehabilitation" and this man do not exist in the same sentence.

ETA: The 'smile' below is part of a larger photo where someone is saying something to him. Other reports say Duncan had no reaction to the sentencing. It's the media...

RIP, dear family - and prayers for Shasta.
************************************************** *********************
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/20...591681-ap.html
Child killer smiles as he hears sentence
By Rebecca Boone, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


BOISE, Idaho (AP) — In the end, killer pedophile Joseph Edward Duncan III couldn’t — or wouldn’t — offer a reason why he should live.

A jury didn’t find one either, deliberating just three hours Wednesday before recommending a death sentence in the 2005 kidnapping, torture and murder of a 9-year-old boy.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/20...27/5382471.jpg
A federal jury has deemed Joseph Edward Duncan III eligible for the death penalty for the 2005 kidnapping, torture and murder of a 9-year-old Idaho boy. (AP/Kathy Plonka)

The jurors’ recommendation was binding on U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge, who thanked and dismissed them and then sentenced the longtime sex offender, who showed no reaction other than smiling.

Earlier, the former Fargo man acted as his own attorney but offered no response to prosecutors’ closing argument detailing why he should die.

“I have no argument,” Duncan told the court.

Relatives of the victim, Dylan Groene, remained somber as the jury’s decision was announced. Duncan murdered Dylan’s mother, older brother and his mother’s fiance. Duncan then kidnaped the boy and his younger sister, who was sexually abused along with her brother but survived.

“We’re happy with the verdict, but it’s a shame — this should have been limited to one death,” said Steven Groene, the father of the children. “He should have had the courage and the guts to kill himself before killing anyone else.”

Duncan took Dylan and the boy’s then-8-year-old sister, Shasta, to a remote western Montana campsite where he raped, tortured and threatened them before shooting Dylan in the head and burning his body. Jurors viewed horrifying video Duncan made of him sexually abusing, torturing and hanging Dylan until the boy lost consciousness.

“This defendant is dangerous. He is a predator who takes pride in his work,” prosecutor Traci Whelan told the jury. “He earned this day.”

With an eye toward kidnapping the two children, Duncan stalked their family. In 2005 he entered their Coeur d’Alene-area home and used a hammer to fatally bludgeon their 13-year-old brother, Slade Groene, his mother, Brenda Groene, and her fiance, Mark McKenzie.

Duncan was arrested and Shasta rescued weeks after the kidnappings when a waitress at a Coeur d’Alene restaurant called police after recognizing the two as they ate.

Duncan pleaded guilty in December to 10 federal charges involving the kidnappings and the murder of Dylan. He previously pleaded guilty to the other three murders in state court, where he also could be sentenced to death.

The federal jury had a choice of recommending a death sentence or life in prison without parole.

In closing arguments, Whelan reminded the jury of Duncan’s lifelong “pattern of violence,” including a conviction for raping a boy at gunpoint in 1980. Duncan has told investigators he killed two half-sisters from Seattle in 1996, and he is charged with killing a young boy in Riverside County, Calif., in 1997.

Duncan may now be brought to Riverside County to stand trial in the death of 10-year-old Anthony Martinez.

Darlene Torres, Brenda Groene’s mother, said she is glad the federal case is over.

“Justice has been served,” Torres said. “It’s been very painful.”

She said that when she saw Duncan in court, “I seen nothing but an evil, empty, cold-hearted shell.”

************************************************** ***************************

ETA: Earlier in the day, an Idaho State Police detective was asked to read a letter written by Duncan to his mother. The letter, apparently never sent, was found folded in Duncan's coat pocket.

In it, Duncan said he wished he could kill himself but his will to live was too strong.

"I have once again become a medium of violence in the world and once again wish I was not alive," he wrote. "I know there is good, and love in my heart and yet at the same time there is a huge reservoir of hatred (evil) that drives me to hurt people, even those I love."

Duncan went on to write that he had been "praying fervently for God to help me, but his answers are jumbled and confusing I am driven by my hatred for our society ('the system') while at the same time tortured by my own compassion."

Duncan's letter complained that he had been taken over by a demon.

"God has shown me the face of evil," he wrote. "Evil is real only because we make it real. Evil can live in a person and society as well. ... I have been inflicted by an evil 'demon' that is nurtured by our so-called Criminal Justice System. ... But know I'm still fighting my demons and asking God to guide me as he can."



Duncan has a long string of arrests and prison time for crimes ranging from car theft to rape and molestation. He is suspected in the 1996 slayings of two half-sisters from Seattle and is charged with the 1997 killing of a young boy in Riverside County, Calif.

Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Companyhttp://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABP...2004345162.jpg

OMG. that picture will haunt me.

You know... I hope his death penalty will be in a room with the biggest, baddest inmates they can find and let them know what he did to that family and that poor poor child. they may be inmates but they don't stand for hurting children. let them dispose of him however they see fit. Sick b@stard.

:mad::mad:You know what Killing him is just too easy.. Can they tourture him first like he did to the kids && then watch him DIE SLOWLEY..:mad:

Hopefully it doesn't take 30 years to execute someone in Idaho like it does here in California.

Your right sparks, the other inmates will take care of him, they will probably isolate him.

YEAH, that is really something to smile about! :mad: I hope he rots in jail, wtf is wrong with people?! :eek:

I agree with sparks on this one.

One can see he is a few slices short of a loaf.
He has no remorse, doens't feel shame or sadness for what he has done. It is not in his makeup. Call it a birth defect if you will.
When he is dead they need to slice open his brain and study it. Perhaps someday there will be meds to help these people. For now, they need to be removed from society.
Perhaps someday they can find the gene that makes a person this way and destroy it.
Someday people will hopefully be born in test-tubes. You can pick and choose the good traits and weed out the sickness mental and physical before conception. This way there will be no abortion or unwanted children. They will be planned when a person is ready to support them.
Each and every child will be planned and wanted, welcomed and cared for. No more hunger, or childhood illness and all will have a chance at a good and decent life.

I feel as strongly as everyone else about this guy but everybody seems to forget one thing - the fact that all babies are born innocent and dependent.
It is apparent that we, society , fail our chidren when they are still in the cradle. We are given children to love and nurture, but how many of these children are given the opportunity to grow and become decent caring citizens is up to the parents to choose. Looking at the system I have seen my share of abused, neglected and starved for love children. Our foster homes for children are bursting at the seams - some of these foster homes are less than perfect - some people will foster for the sake of $$$$ and not the love of the child. If you think children are blind to this fact, think again. This is why they run away from their foster homes most times.
What this man did is appalling and indescribable, but searching back to his chilhood one might find that the parents are the ones who should be punished alongside him. And I am in no way excusing what he did, the death penalty does seem too good - I always like to take a closer look behing the facts presented. I think his chilhood might be filled with more than unhappiness. Violence begets violence - indifference begets indifference and a lack of nurturing brings a whole host of other mental afflictions.
When teachers start complaining that a child is acting up in class you can start looking at that child's homelife and lack of nurturing or caring, if truth be told, we only see the surface of what this child has been through until his school years begin.

shepgirl - I agree with what you have said, but I believe that there are people born with 'something missing' in the brain chemically, just as some are born with physical infirmities. The brain and its chemicals are physical as well, so it stands to reason that this can and does happen.

In the original post, I pasted a letter he wrote to his mom. It was found in his pocket and never mailed. Everyone, have a look at that.

I have also visited a blog of his, which ends in 2005. He talks many times of 'fighting demons' in his head.

I agree with the death penalty, as this does not seem 'curable' and he will keep on hurting and killing.

Also - he is now 45 years of age, and was 42 when he killed Dylan Groene. It's a bit late to be blaming mommy and daddy.

Check this story about the adult who went to their parent, and ranted about how it was all the parent's fault that they (the adult child) were where they were now.

The parent thinks, and then says, "Well, maybe it is my fault that you are where you are now. But if you stay there - that's your fault."

Totally agree Catty1. some people are born with chemical brain imbalances, but isn't it up to the parents to have their child checked out and get the help he/she needs if that is the case.?This guy speaking if his demons etc, sounds more like a psyzophrenic that went uncontrolled. And the letter written to his mother speaks volumes of hate towards her and also the system for failing him. If the parents flip off a kid as a troublemaker and a loser instead of a human being needing help, this is the end result. Maybe this kid was hit and blamed for everything that ever went wrong in his parents' lives...the parents ingrained this into him until he believed it. same as a husband beating his wife and sayingnow see what you made me do". And as far as "it's your fault if yoy stay there", if the child has learned that no one considers him worthy of help he isn't going to look for that help since he's never learned how to ask for help, he's learned to take his mental anguish out in socially unnacceptable ways.
I totally agree with the death penalty in this case, AND it's ovious the man feels released from his demons with this sentencing.
When I say the parents failed him by not getting the help he neede I mean real help, not getting yourself on the DR. Phil show in front of millions and making a spectacle of the kid.

I'd like to wipe that smug grin off that face with hatchet. UGH!!!!

Re: that smile...I thought it was at hearing his sentence until I saw the ENTIRE photo - and he is smiling at something someone two feet away from him is saying. So - that particular news story flies in the face of the others which say he had no reaction to the sentence.

shepgirl - BTW, it's "schizophrenia", which a CPS worker should know how to spell, and leave the diagnosis to those more qualified. ;) There is no way to know at this point what kind of upbringing the murderer had - so it's also as likely that the mom and dad, like MANY parents, did everything they possibly could, and despaired because nothing DID work (mental health care was not all wonderful 35 or 40 years ago, and even now sometimes treatments Do Not Work).

Your eagerness to blame the parents tells me a lot more about you than it does the murderer, I'm afraid. I know you are a parent; perhaps that is why you are hard on them. I hope you are not too hard on yourself. JMO.

He did receive an official diagnosis in 1980, which can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_E._Duncan_III

This is just about the only biography I have found so far.

First, one excerpt from his blog:

Friday May 13, 2005

Quote:

---

Does anything matter? My mother is crying right now, because her son is in trouble again. She tried to raise a good son, and she knows her son has a good heart, so why does he do these things? She is probably more hurt and confused than me. Does it matter? It hurts me to know these things, but DOES IT MATTER???

---

http://jaimesite.homestead.com/josepheduncaniii.html

Quote:

---

BIOGRAPHY:

A repeat and violent Level III Sex Offender with a long rap sheet, Joseph E. Duncan III committed his first sexual assault when he preyed upon a five year old boy. At the time, Duncan himself was only age twelve.

One of five children born into a military family in Fort Bragg, N.C., Duncan relocated frequently as he was growing up. He dropped out of high school prior to his graduation and was characterized as lonely and displaced, particularly after his parents’ divorce in 1979.

Joe Duncan served most of his adult life incarcerated just outside Tacoma, Washington. His biological mother is a resident of the same State. Once released, he relocated to North Dakota and was attending North Dakota State University in the city of Fargo. He worked to complete a degree in computer science and would have graduated with a BA in May of 2005. Duncan was as a Teacher's Assistant at Edmonds Community College were he taught students introductory programming courses. He also was involved in several software development projects for both North Dakota State University and a firm known as, "iCat Corporation." Duncan used his computer skills on his personal time to create and maintain his own website and blog.

---

Quote:

---

A repeat and violent Level III Sex Offender with a long rap sheet, Joseph E. Duncan III committed his first sexual assault when he preyed upon a five year old boy. At the time, Duncan himself was only age twelve.

One of five children born into a military family in Fort Bragg, N.C., Duncan relocated frequently as he was growing up. He dropped out of high school prior to his graduation and was characterized as lonely and displaced, particularly after his parents’ divorce in 1979.

Joe Duncan served most of his adult life incarcerated just outside Tacoma, Washington. His biological mother is a resident of the same State. Once released, he relocated to North Dakota and was attending North Dakota State University in the city of Fargo. He worked to complete a degree in computer science and would have graduated with a BA in May of 2005. Duncan was as a Teacher's Assistant at Edmonds Community College were he taught students introductory programming courses. He also was involved in several software development projects for both North Dakota State University and a firm known as, "iCat Corporation." Duncan used his computer skills on his personal time to create and maintain his own website and blog.

---

= SCUMBAG

Catty1 I am not disagreeing with the sentence or trying to whitewash this guy, all I'm saying is that he became this way because of some unknown reason. As for schiz. yes, I mispelled it becuase half my post was missing. If you don't type fast enough you lose everything. As you read it started with violence towards animals and this is what I have observed so many times with kids who turn out this way. I also read that his parents were divorced which doesn't help children. Who is he referring to when he talks about his mom...his biological one or the stepmother?
Not that I am eager to blame parents but if you dig deep enough, the trouble usually starts there. Fortunately, yes, I do have children and was lucky enough to never run into problems with them.
As for being hard on myself I had goals to meet and I met then, no ifs or buts. I was raised with rules and learned it was easier to follow the rules than to attract attention the wrong way BUT I was also shown love and empathy...was he this lucky?
As for CPS worker, thanks for the compliment but no thanks, my stomach couldn't handle the stress of it all.

shepgirl, I didn't think for a moment you were trying to defend this guy at all...nobody does. But I gotta wonder - there are kids who go through divorces and having step-family and turn out FINE.

I am just postulating that sometimes people are born with a piece missing - like an arm, or part of a brain chemical or something - and nothing nohow seems to be able to change that. Good parenting may put off the inevitable - bad parenting might accelerate it.

Sometimes nothing external seems to help.

I think that someone should wipe that evil smile off his face with a hammer, just as he wiped 4 innocent people off the earth with one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catty1

shepgirl, I didn't think for a moment you were trying to defend this guy at all...nobody does. But I gotta wonder - there are kids who go through divorces and having step-family and turn out FINE.

I am just postulating that sometimes people are born with a piece missing - like an arm, or part of a brain chemical or something - and nothing nohow seems to be able to change that. Good parenting may put off the inevitable - bad parenting might accelerate it.

Sometimes nothing external seems to help.

---

Some people need to be intelligent enough to see this in their mind and put a stop to it mentally, before it turns into the end effect.

I am not going to defend this man at all. I just want to point out that that photo of him smiling was in use in the media days before he was sentenced.

He may have had the same expression on his face, but just wanted to point that out.

He is just another example of animal abusers becoming human predators, and why animal abuse should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law every single time.

Karen, thanks. I pointed out a couple of times that that "smile" was from a picture that had Joe responding to another person. NOTHING to do with the sentencing.

Reggie - a person's intelligence has nothing to do with whether they can fix themselves or not.

It's like intelligent people being able to cure their own cancer. It doesn't happen that way. Brain chemistry is physical, physiological.

I have a B.A., made the Dean's list one year, have travelled several countries as a musician, recorded a CD with my own songs on it - and am on two medications for life because my brain chemistry needs help to keep me centred.

Brains ain't got nothing to do with it.

Catty1 - you've just more or less made the point I was trying to make...you said you are onb meds for life because of a brain chemistry problem. That's exactly what I was trying to explain. There are meds out there to help any brain chemistry abnormality. What I'm trying to explain is that parents who just shove off their kids with a scuff to the head or face when something is amiss is not going to help those kids. We had neighbors where the mother sat in front of the boob tube all day and watched soaps...guess who'd kids were always getting into trouble at school for lack of parental attention? If the parents don't care enough to put the kids first and foremost then don't have kids...simple.

True, shepgirl - there ARE meds...I guess we were agreeing all the way along LOL.

But there are some illnesses for which meds aren't yet available.

"clinically diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder in 1980" This is from Wikipedia - and I don't know that there are successful treatments for that. I wonder if they TRIED to treat him?

On his blog in 2005, he says that 'some high priced shrink' diagnosed him as transsexual. So he did have contact with the psychiatric community.

There are some diseases of all kinds that can't be cured yet. Even me, being on lifelong meds - that isn't a cure, any more than insulin is for a person with diabetes.

Some day soon...I hope full treatment and health care will be available to all who need it.

Yes sir...we've been agreeing all along Catty. Just not that good at expressing myself I guess. Hope someday you'll be able to look back and toss your meds away....

sg - I appreciate the thought - really, I do.

BUT - LOL - a bit ot - shepgirl, I tossed my anti-depressant meds many times over the decades, figuring the right vitamins/faith/etc (lots of etc!) would do it.

I hit the bloody wall every single time...I would be ok for a little bit, and then BANG! Like slamming into a cinder block wall gut first.

I am 52...and three years ago, I finally decided to stop arguing. Raised the white flag...and can live better in my own head again, and people around me don't have to wonder when I am going to snap, or why I am so 'flat' and leaden in personality.

Just to repeat what I posted to Reggie a few posts back:

Quote:

---

Reggie - a person's intelligence has nothing to do with whether they can fix themselves or not.

It's like intelligent people being able to cure their own cancer. It doesn't happen that way. Brain chemistry is physical, physiological.

I have a B.A., made the Dean's list one year, have travelled several countries as a musician, recorded a CD with my own songs on it - and am on two medications for life because my brain chemistry needs help to keep me centred.

Brains ain't got nothing to do with it.

---

It's like diabetes of the brain...it doesn't show physical symptoms like Parkinson's. But that horrid disease is due to brain chemistry as well. A patient with Parkinson's would not dream of looking back and tossing their meds. ;) It's the same thing. Really.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...nslayings.html

Next sentencing hearing delayed for killer Duncan

Convicted child killer Joseph Edward Duncan III was sentenced to death last month for the 2005 kidnapping, sexual abuse and murder of 9-year-old Dylan Groene.
BOISE, Idaho —

Convicted child killer Joseph Edward Duncan III was sentenced to death last month for the 2005 kidnapping, sexual abuse and murder of 9-year-old Dylan Groene.

But he has yet to be sentenced on seven other federal charges related to aspects of his crimes against Dylan and Dylan's sister, Shasta Groene.

He faces up to life in prison kidnapping, and two counts of aggravated sexual abuse of a minor. He faces a sentence of up to 10 years in prison for being a felon in possession of a firearm, transporting a stolen firearm, possessing an unregistered firearm and transporting a stolen vehicle.

U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge originally scheduled the sentencing date for Oct. 15, but postponed it until Nov. 3 to accommodate the schedules of the attorneys involved in the case.

Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company