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What a sick person. I feel bad for the remaining pups. I can't believe someone can do such a thing, and then say it was best for the dog:mad:
Too bad I can't take the guy out back and put him out of his misery:mad:
RIP Sadie:(
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/817826/in/stroll/
FORGOT TO ADD: The vet costs maybe $20.00 to euthanize, and I believe AC does it free. Anything would have been better that their way!
Sadly, this happens quite a bit. :(
Around here it is usually the people in the country(though not everyone, of course!) who put the dog "out of its misery" this way. There is a girl I go to school with, her family breeds BCs(terrible looking ones, at that), and if one falls ill or gets terribly old, this is the method they use. I was appalled, and offered to pay for the vet to put them to sleep in the future, but she refused.
I didn't click on the link; read enough in the posts to understand the jist of it.
RIP dear one.
Poor Sadie. How the heck did the jerk who shot her know she didn't suffer???
I hate stupid people.:mad::mad:
Besides the obvious trauma Sadie endured....the poor girl and her brother...who knows how old that boy was when his father made him help him do that deed....I know I'm reading details we don't know to be true, but I imagine the dad made the boy help.....sheesh.....
I am assuming the brother was an adult since the writer mentions he lived away from home.
That is a rather archaic way of dealing with things. I wonder if they really did feel a gun shot was painless, unless it was at point blank in the head. Still, why would you do that with children around?
I am assuming the brother was an adult since the writer mentions he lived away from home.
I didn't read the whole thing because it sickened me....but if they had the dog for 15 years, both siblings were raised with her....just a mentality I don't understand......
It was over 40 years ago...on my grandma's farm near Plumas Manitoba, many of the cats came down with distemper. Dad was asked to dispatch them.
The closest vet would have been 3 hours away at that time.
Dad loved cats - but he also knew when a case was hopeless. The only blessing is that he had been a member of the RCMP for many years, so the poor kitties never knew what hit them. :(
Rounding up the sick semi-ferals at the time and trying to take them 3 hours to Winnipeg...with no carriers...it wasn't a feasible option. However, many do-it-yourselfers do a really crappy job of it.
When I first saw this thread, I thought they had drowned or strangled her, which would have been horrific. I just read the linked story and I agree with how they did it - as long as it was true she died instantly.
This is the AC in Sierra Vista: http://www.ci.sierra-vista.az.us/cms...=78&Itemid=206
No mention of the charge for euthanasia, if there is one - or how far away it is from where this family lives.
RIP Sadie. No more pain.
ETA: The children were in the barn.
Sad to say, but sometimes, with farm life, that's just the views that farmers have of the animals. My great grandmother was heartless in my eyes, but she just never formed a bond with the animals on the farm, because some day, she might have to do something like this person did.
I don't advocate it. I couldn't do it. And I was not a fan of my great grandmother either. :o She was abrasive and mean, and spit tobacco through her front teeth!! She was in her 70's and 80's during the time I knew her.
Farm life - you do it with the tools at hand; likely seems a waste of gas money to drive however far you need to in order to get to AC. If they even really know about AC.
It would take a lot of money, but sure would be nice to have a lot of info booths or mobile info vehicles for rural events.
I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but my dad has done this with a couple rabid cats we had when I was little. I didn't ask questions, I was too young. But I did know what was going on.
He could never do anything like that now. One of my sister's GSD's was practically dead out in the kennel and he couldn't even bring himself to go get him to take him to the vet to be PTS. My brother had to do it.
As a side note: I also do not care for my father. I do not agree with his ways, on several different topics. So to me, that's just the way he WAS.
As others stated, we do not really know the entire story. And it is obviously a child who wrote it. Either way it is a very sad thing.
RIP Sadie. You did live a long life.
That is so sad.
RIP Sadie
:(:(:(
In a suburb, city setting you would never see something like this done. We are just not used to see this type of stuff go on. In modern suburb/city settings, it is not an acceptable act. But some things just don't change, and although you may not agree with it, it's just how things are. While I'm sure rural society has improved in many ways, this just is one way. But I have met many modern farmers who make alot of money, we now have mobile vets, etc. Obviously, to some people animals are just that, animals. :( I'm not saying they didn't love the dog but it is very unfourtunate. Although I don't agree with it and I would never be able to do something like that, I guess some people still find it acceptable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenn_librarian
Sounds like she would fit right in at "Thursdays Cyber Bar" :p :D
I don't think you'd want her there either.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizbud
My dad remembers how she treated hunting dogs. He was raised by her, not his mom, and he had a little beagle that he loved and took hunting with him when he was young.
Well, the beagle didn't like her, and one day it was walking by her, stopped and peed on her leg. She shot the beagle. :eek: :( She was a nasty old lady.:mad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenn_librarian
What a mean old B**** . :mad::mad:
Poor pup.:(
I live in a VERY country area. The booneys:p And it is very typical for people, and I use the term "people" very lightly, for them to do this kinda thing. It is unbelieveable. Disgusting. WRONG!
The theory here about stray and feral cats, and dogs as well, is "shoot, shovel, and shut up".:mad:
I just cant understand.. I never will:(
so did I read this right? he shot her?
what's the big deal?
Honestly if he gave her a kill shot she woudln't have suffered at all. I don't understand the outrage.
now obviously I don't know the whole story with how or why this dog was suffering but if my dog was in severe pain I wouldn't subject them to the drive to the vets... I would shoot them and put them out of their misery right then and there. It wouldn't be easy for me but I don't think it's fair to make the dog suffer on the drive to the vets.
Honestly, When Teddy passed away... I wish that I hadn't made him endure that car ride and die on the way. I don't even know if he could feel the pain but I just know he wasn't really in there. His eyes were a blank stare but he was breathing. he was unresponsive and could not or would not even open his mouth to stop himself from biting his lip. if I had known then what I know now I would have shot him and put an end to his misery immediately.
How does he know she didn't suffer? Well if he knew how to use a gun and shot her in the right place you can pretty much see that death is instant. If you don't think he can be sure she didn't suffer from a kill shot how can you be sure that your pets don't suffer from the drugs injected to put them to sleep?
this may make me a "monster" but I just don't see the big deal. Like I said if she was in serious discomfort I think that forcing her to endure a bumpy car ride to the vet is more cruel.
don't get me wrong... I am not at all advocating shooting a healthy animal just to get rid of them but in cases of REAL discomfort I just don't see the problem. is it the gun that bothers you?
I am also not saying that it would not be difficult for me to shoot one of my animals. It would be very hard but it would also be very hard for me to make them endure the car ride to the vet to be put down.
It said she was old and had arthritis... Not in dire and horrible circumstances... And about to die and that was the ONLY way to stop the pain...
I would not shoot my kid.. I would not shoot my pets.. I would not shoot anything, under any circumstances. IMO, it is inhumane.. ESP when vets are available.
It is just so sad.
[QUOTE=kt_luvs_kitties;2040862]It said she was old and had arthritis... Not in dire and horrible circumstances... And about to die and that was the ONLY way to stop the pain...
QUOTE]
I kind of agree with sparks on this one too. Also, I obviously don't agree with killing a healthy animal but I don't think this dog was exactly healthy. Arthritis is a horrible, horrible disease. I had to put my baby to sleep thanks to this disease and it's horrible to watch an animal suffer through the pain of arthritis then getting shot and kill instantly. If you think about it before they had putting a dog to sleep, they always did this. The dog was probably suffering a great deal, although there are options to treat this disease or help simmer it down these people "were broke" and would not have been able to afford it. I doubt they would have tried but just putting my two cents in.
I've always thought this was just a strange thing......we can end an animals suffering by having them PTS. But we cannot do this with humans, because it's considered murder. Even though a human could actually TELL us they don't want to live any longer.
When my grandpa was in the hospital during his last days he was in so much pain. I will NEVER forget the look in his eyes. He had piercing blue eyes and it felt like he was begging me to help him end the misery he was in. He had to suffer until that day he was finally at peace.
Sorry, this is a little off topic, but it's what came to mind.
yeah I just don't see it as anymore inhumane than PTS to sleep with drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alysser
No I wouldn't shoot my child but I also wouldn't have her euthanized either so I'm not sure that's a fair comparison.
this is probably way off topic and a wierd comparison but one time a hummingbird flew into the window and I ran outside to see if it was OK. it was laying on the ground still alive but twitching around. I touched it's tushy and it ended up getting up and flying away... it was only stunned. but if it were unable to fly away I would have broken it's neck and put it out of it's misery. I have done it with one of my hamsters that was dying slowly. it's not a pleasant thing to do and I don't enjoy breaking necks but immediate death is the most humane thing I could have done. IMO
I understand your opinion but, I would never assume the role of killingQuote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
any animal by my own hand. I just could never do it,ever.
As for shooting a old,arthritic dog companion, I could never bear to see
the dog's brains blown out before my eyes. It would haunt me forever.:(
This is just my opinion.
I agree with you in a way. Shooting, when done correctly, can be humane. Old and sick horses are, more often than not, shot instead of put to sleep. Deer fatally wounded in car accidents are often shot to prevent them struggling off somewhere remote and dying in agony. Why, because this is a dog, is it different?Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
When I did my work experience at a veterinary practice, one of the vets there got her gun license. Before then, I'd never really thought I might have to shoot things when I become a vet, and for a while I was a bit uncomfortable with it. Once it was explained more to me about how to use the gun properly, I now know I would have no more of a problem shooting a dying animal than putting it to sleep.
On the other hand, I can see why the dogster page is a cause for concern. We'll never know whether the dog actually was suffering and had a poor quality of life or whether the owner just decided the dog wasn't worth keeping anymore because it was older and slower. We'll never know if the dog was shot in a humane manner. It's very sad, yes, but either way, we can't do much about it now.
RIP pup.
I don't think it's fair to compare a wild deer, or even a horse in the same
way one treats a dog in this same circumstance.
A wild deer is wild & couldn't be transported easily to be put down.
A horse out on the range,or far from a Vets office can be treated or
euthanized by injection, if necessary.
A pet dog can be transported to a Vet or 24hr hospital, and put to sleep
with no pain & no trauma to the animal or the human. There are also pills
to help older,arthritic dogs & the animals owner would have plenty of time
to judge the health & welfare of his/her dog and plan accordingly.
To take an animal "out-back" & shoot it yourself is bizzare. Maybe people
did this 60 years ago, but that was then, & this is 2008.:(
We are a modern society. We can take a mouse and have it humanly PTS.
Also, what makes people think that they are experts, a vet, or the like?
How do you know that animal can't be saved?
My kitty Stash, when I found him, was hit by a car and left on the side of the road.
By most people reasoning it seems, and ABSOLUTELY NO VET TRAINING, would have said to put him out of his misery, or shoot him.
I did not, and now 5 years later I have the best kitty one could want, and the love of my life;)
Point: If you are not a vet, you don't know if a life can be saved or not.
While I agree with this statement somewhat, I also disagree with it. Sometimes, an animals life can be saved, but at what cost. More pain for the animal? Major surgery? I for one, would never put an old dog through major surgery and cause it more pain then it already has, I mean, in the long run the dog is old already and older animals have a greater chance of develeoping more problems because of the surgery and their age alone. I don't think I'd put an older animal through major surgery unless there was a very great chance of him/her surviving.Quote:
Originally Posted by kt_luvs_kitties
Alysser, while I do agree with you in a way, I do believe it is best to talk to a licensed vet before making any major decisions... And not to drag it out back and kill it. That is what I was trying to say;)
Once a vet says there is no chance, then I take them to another vet, just to be sure. And still I have a had time accepting it, because no matter what, I believe God makes the final decision, and I always wonder if PTS is what I should have done...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alysser
Agreed.
I dragged poor Teddy into a man's truck and he suffered the drive to the vet and died just before we got there.
It tears me up inside to think that he suffered during that drive when ultimately my LOVING hand could have put him out of his misery immediately.
he was bleeding from his ears... His back was VISIBLY broken. I don't have to be a VET to see that. To see the blank stare in his eyes. to see that he was even unable to open his mouth to stop him from biting his lip to the point of bleeding.
while the dogs condition as described in the dogster page could have been to the point of extreme pain or not that bad at all... I will never say that it is completely wrong to shoot your dog to immediately end their discomfort.
how do you REALLY know that the injection causes them no pain? Cause the vet tells you? how do they REALLY know?
No visible signs? Teddy didn't show SIGNS of pain other than his bleeding and obviously broken back. I didn't want to give up on him but deep down I knew that even if they said they could do surgery it would be no life for him. he was so active and IF IF they could have SAVED him ... what would the cost be? A life of pain? not able to do the things he loved like jump around and chase the water hose? that's not a life he would have wanted to live. it would have been torture to make him endure that recovery if he hadn't died on the way. It would have been SELFISH... PURELY SELFISH. I woudln't have been keeping him alive for HIM... i would have been keeping him alive for MY selfish want to keep him by my side.
I don't have to be a vet to see how critical his condition was. there is NO WAY that if the vet had told me there was nothing he could do that I would drag his poor broken body to another vet only to prolong his suffering.
Sometimes I think we do these things for OUR selfish reasons rather than what we know in our HEARTS would be best for the suffering being begging at our feet :(
I took him to the vet for the selfish hope that PERHAPS he could be saved even though I knew deep down it would be SO hard on him. My heart weeps for him everyday. the vision of him in that truck suffering haunts me. the moment he took his last breath I even tried to give him CPR to revive him. I was selfish and desperate. I was unable to save him and looking back I don't know if I could look at myself if I made him go through surgery and recovery just so I could have a little more time with him :(
Not to mention... Not all people are minutes away from a vets office. If they lived out in the country they could have been over a half hour away from a vets office. Looking back I wish that I could have ended his misery immediately rather than try to prolong his suffering for my own selfish reasons.
I am not a vet but I think there is a point where you just KNOW that the animal you love just doesn't have it in him anymore to go on. that there comes a point when we must end their suffering because it is just to much for their poor bodies to handle.
So... why is it more cruel to shoot your dog than to drag them to the vet and have them PTS if you don't REALLY know how much pain they are really in? Even vets don't know 100%. Life is fragile and vets do their best to restore life but even they make mistakes and operate or treat a dog that later dies from their suffering. Sorry... being a vet doesn't give you 100% accuracy on LIFE.
I think I would rather PTS and wonder for the rest of my life rather than avoid it all together and let my BEST FRIEND suffer until they just can't take it anymore and die and then regret that I allowed them to suffer when they trusted me with their life.
I guess that is where we differ... I would rather take that drive...
And even if I was in severe pain, I would NOT want to be shot. Please let me die naturally, rather than put a bullet through my brain. Sorry to be so frank, but it is what it is...
AND- there is no guarantee that the shot is not painful, but if the animal is sedated first, which they are, then I can not see HOW it could hurt. And if it did, they would not know it....I mean, who is to say we can't feel pain AFTER death? I know that signals stop going to our brain, But prove it? We can't. Only God knows that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kt_luvs_kitties
And again... whose to say that a bullet is more painful than an injection of chemicals that shuts our body down? Perhaps they feel that pain after death if they can feel pain from a kill shot after death.
Why is it wrong to kill a dog in other painless methods (not assuming we can feel pain after death) but not to have them put to sleep? If that is the case and they should die naturally you shouldn't be putting them to sleep either. that is just as unnatural.
but again... I will not make my best friend suffer needlessly for my own selfish reasons... so that I can feel better that they died from being injected with chemicals even though they had to endure an extra half an hour of extreme pain so you could get them to a vet rather than end their pain immediately.
that being said... I have had a guinea Pig PTS because it had gastric torsion (I think that's what it was called) I was heart broken. I honestly had hoped she could be saved but it just wasn't possible at that point. And I CRIED my eyes out.
but in a case like teddy's... I KNEW there was no way he could possibly survive and if some "Miracle" (I use that term loosely since it would be a miracle for ME to spend more time with thim but not a miracle for him to have to endure MORE pain) said that he could be treated but would have to endure lots of surgery and MORE pain and never be restored to the playful, healthy pup we loved I just could NOT have done that to him. He would be miserable.
I don't know that I could ever do it myself, but I don't necessarily 100% disagree with the method, either. Case by case basis, for me.
As for it being less humane than being put to sleep by injection...I have mixed feelings about that, too. Simply because it seemed like my dog, Bruno, was in pain when I had him put down. :( He wasn't writhing or screaming, but he didn't seem comfortable, either.
Whilst I can understand why this is your opinion, I'm still not convinced about why a dog is different to any other animal. To me, a life is a life, whether it's that of a dog, cat, horse, human, parrot, bumble-bee, whatever. I don't think that some methods of death are more acceptable for one species than the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizbud
I think if it really was necessary a wild animal could be transported to a vet's clinic to be euthanised. But it causes far less stress to the animal to shoot it there and then than prolong its suffering for the same outcome.
I have seen a horse euthanised. It's not really as simple as doing so with a cat or dog. A horse is a large, powerful animal and needs a big shot. The poor animal was cast and scared out of its mind - a horse's instinct is to get up and run when it's afraid. It took a while for the drugs to take effect, time in which the poor creature was screaming and paddling the air. It was a harrowing experience. I wish they'd have shot him instead.
And whilst I agree that treatment is the option we pet lovers most like to choose, part of me does understand the reason why perhaps the animal should be humanely killed before it has to face a life of steadily progressive pain and nasty treatment. As pet owners will know, we all have a point with our ailing pets when we say, right, enough is enough. Rest assured had that pet been in the care of someone else, there'd be people who would have given up on it months back, and those that would still want to carry on pumping the animal with treatments. It's just a question of how much pain you can take in. Some people can't hack it.