Or those little critters that can mate with themselves. ;) :cool:
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Or those little critters that can mate with themselves. ;) :cool:
The animal kingdom dosent give them special treatment over single or non married couples, reguardless of hetro or homo relationship. Married couples should not get benifits or penalties that single or unmarried couples do not recieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by IRescue452
Wow Blue, for once I agree with you! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
PCB: If you do some checking around at your place of worship, or on the net, you will find many good parents who raised wonderful children, some of whom face telling their parents that they are gay. Many know this from the time they are 3 or 5, much younger than puberty.
The reality is - people are gay, and it may be one of your own children. What will you do then?
This excerpt is from the first link I posted several posts ago.
Will you love your children no matter what?Quote:
"The story that stabbed me in the heart most profoundly was from a woman who described herself as a conservative Christian who believes homosexuality is a sin. She said her daughter had come out to her as a lesbian and that in one terrible moment she had told her daughter, "After you get fixed you can come home again."
After that the daughter refused to have anything to do with the mother. The mother said, "I should have picked up my purse and my keys and drove 550 miles to make her talk to me but I didn't.". A year later her daughter was found dead hanging in her own closet, a suicide.
I think the following is well worth copying here.
On Children
Kahlil Gibran
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let our bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.
You just never cease do you.Quote:
Originally Posted by popcornbird
Conneticut just legalised Gay marriage.
a quote from a very inspirational (bisexual) woman I know called Lofn.
1800 people. Their union before God destroyed because of people like you that are close minded enough, to deny them the rights that they once had. Can you even have the grace to imagine how that feels to them?Quote:
In light of the current tragedy (when more than 1800 couples have the government end their marriages because of popular opinion concerning their genitals, I call it a damned tragedy), I want you to know that I thank you for your support in protecting marriage for all, and I urge you not to lose hope. We're still fighting. There is a petition going out to overturn the amendment, and according to a friend of mine, there are still votes to be counted, so we may still have a chance.
It may be discouraging, but don't let it crush you. Thank you for standing with us. We'll make it someday.
-cough- Conneticut.Quote:
For those of you who wish to leave California because of this...I guess Massachusetts is the only option, because the other states are only stronger against gay marriages than California. :p
Discrimination is wrong- thats what proposition 8 is. and you just voted yes. Way to be a hipocrite.Quote:
For those of you who commented on my kids (or future kids), I can only say that I intend to be a loving, caring, compassionate parent, who will teach her children right from wrong and wrong from right, who will try to instill in them good moral values, respect for others, and most importantly, I will try my best to raise them up as strong Believers in God Almighty.
Not everybody wants to get married. You say it like its something that has to happen otherwise the world will end because someone hasnt made a union. Now people want to get married, and you turn around and tell them oh no you cant do that its unnatural. So are spectacles, alot of modern medicines, plastic... yet we still use those day to day. for the procreation arguement, If everybody in the world was heterosexual and procreated, the population would explode to the point of resources stretching over their limit, no one would have enough and the whole world would be screwed.Quote:
I intend to make it clear to my children that life is not a fantasy or storybook. In life, we do NOT always get everything we want. In life, we do not always get to have what we want, be with whom we want, or live in a situation that we want. It does not only apply to this issue. Life is not a fantasy. Reality is different from what we imagine, and for those of us who are young, we realize it quickly once we get married and start living as responsible adults in the real world, with all burdens of life on our shoulders. Everything in life is not possible, and everything in life is not acceptable.
Sexuality & monogamy are different things Ma'am.Quote:
Imagine if someone falls in love with another person, and loves that person to the point that he/she cannot imagine life without him/her. Now get this. The person who she considers the 'love of her life'...the person she dreams of, the person she wants to commit to is already married. Can she marry him? NO! Can she be with him? No. Can she live the rest of her life with him? No. Why? Because it isn't going to happen. Somethings are wrong, and we need to learn to accept that. Sometimes marrying the person you 'love' isn't the right choice. Sometimes people destroy their lives by marrying the person they fell in love with, and married JUST because they loved that person. Love, while a serious factor in marriage, is NOT the only bases of a union.
you clearly arent though. your discriminating against couples and people based on whats in their pants or whos in their bed.Quote:
I am a person who is strongly against discrimination in any form.
Good grief what on earth are you on! 'No one is stopping them from finding the love of their life in the opposite sex'.Quote:
I cannot tolerate people who discriminate against people who are black because they are black, nor can I stand people who discriminate against whites because they are white. I cannot stand people who differentiate between the rich and poor. I am not an advocate of discrimination...nor is anyone else who voted yes to prop 8. I just don't believe ANYONE is supposed to marry the same sex. People who call themselves gay CAN marry. No one is preventing them from finding the love of their life in the opposite gender. If they have the right body parts (male or female), then they can marry people of the opposite sex, just like everyone else does. Like I have said before, and I know I will make some of you laugh by saying this, but you cannot make a computer work by plugging its plug into a plug. It just won't work. Try as hard as you might...that computer of your's will never turn on, will never function, will never help you in any way. Now get an outlet for the plug, and the computer will be functioning great in no time. ;)
Let me go back to basics for you.
Heterosexual: Romantically, Sexually, emotionally attracted to the opposite gender.
Homosexual: Romantically, Sexually, Emotionally attracted to the same Gender.
Bisexual: Romantically, Sexually, Emotionally attracted to both the same and opposite gender.
What you said is very Insulting. Homosexuals do not love the opposite gender in that way. Heterosexuals do not love the same gender in that way.
Infertile couples can never have a child of their own either. Does that mean that they should not be allowed to marry? and how many children do you think there are in america and the world at whole that dont know who their father is?Quote:
Men and women are like that. They are made to 'fit' into each other. That's the way our bodies are made, and that includes the bodies of people who call themselves gay. The action that men and women do together is impossible for people of the same sex to do together. This is why I say it is unnatural. It is. If it wasn't, then they would fit into each other perfectly, just like a man and a woman, but they don't...and a FACT: they never will. When a man and woman are married and have a child together, that child is a part of both of them. That child is made out of a part of his father, and a part of his mother. The development of a child is very, very beautiful. It is impossible for any 'gay couple' to have a child of their own, together, a child that is a part of both of them. Truly, it is impossible. If they get a sperm donor, the daddy is an unknown, and the other partner has nothing to do with the child. They can never have a child of their OWN.
I was raised the majority without my father. I'm fine. Im not the only one either.Quote:
There is a purpose of two genders. There is a purpose of a mother and a father. Kids need both, and while some children in certain situations don't get to live with both, the ideal situation is that a child has both mom and dad. Moms and dads are not exactly the same. Now don't even try to tell me we're in the 21st century, and there's no difference in a mom and a dad in this day and age. There is. Find me one father who can successfully nurse his newborn, and then tell me you found one that's the same. They are not the same. Without insemenation, there can be no baby. Without a womb, there can be no baby. Love makes babies..and babies are born in families, into marriages. Besides, right now, in the 21st century, gay marriage is illegal in almost every country in the world. This includes our own. That should tell you something. Most human beings that exist in the 21st century, believe and KNOW that marriage is only between a man and a woman. Its that simple.
No, sex makes babies. You seem to be under the impression that without marriage none of this can happen, which either demonstrates that you didnt pay attention in sex education class or are under some kind of ignorance that most people would die for. Did you know america has some of the highest teenage pregnancies in the world?
Im not even going to go into the divorce rate.
homosexual.Quote:
I don't deny that people can have feelings for each other, nor do I judge people for having feelings of affection for other human beings. I don't, and never had a problem with people of the same gender holding hands, or giving each other little kisses (NOTE: I do not mean romantic/french kissing here). In fact, for me, it is completely normal to see guys, friends holding hands and walking. That isn't a 'gay' thing. That is just affection for someone you care about. The problem I have is when people ACT on their feelings in a lustful manner. The problem is when it becomes sexual. Sexual behavior is not always acceptable. Homosexuality comes in that category. So does incest...hence, my reasoning for comparing the two together. Both are immoral types of sexual behavior. Fight with me all you will....the majority of the world agrees with me on this. Your arguments won't make a difference.
I have no problem with people that believe in God but the creationist arguement is flawed. You say things like Incest is wrong, but If every human came from adam and eve, then their children must have procreated, and so on. So if that was true, you're related to everyone. You cant marry because your related to everyone. Gay or Straight.Quote:
Before I finish off typing and go to attend the soup cooking on my stove, I'd like to address Pickle's 'we have a creationist amongst us' comment. Oh wow...like everyone on PT is a non-believer. :rolleyes: I have been a member of PT for many, many years (my estimate is 6 years but I'm not sure), and know many religious people here, as well as people who are not that religious, but most definitely believe in God and the fact that He Created us. As far as I know, most, or a very large number of people on PT believe in God, and rightly so. I cannot imagine that things have changed here to the extent that everyone has changed their ways and beliefs. We did not all fall out of the sky. I'm not even going to get into that debate right now because you will end up getting lectured, and I'm not in the mood for that right now, but seriously...if you have a problem with people who believe in God, something is seriously wrong with you.
Sodomy was a sin in the 1500s. incase you hadnt noticed, its 2008. The bible preaches that god made and loves everyone. Besides the fact that there is no proof that God even exists, the bible is full of incorrect information. Do you eat pork or shellfish? Leviticus says that is an abomination to you.Quote:
For those of you who say we are not God...who are we to judge? Absolutely. The whole reason we judge is because God has already judged. It is GOD who told us of the sin of sodomy, and it is GOD who told us about the nation of Prophet Lot and their sin of homosexuality. God's Word. God's judgement. Not mine. Not anyone else's. God's. If God created them that way, then God would not have spoken against them, but He did, which means, their actions are actions that anger God. Once again, I know we're not God. This is God's judgement, and I will stand by the side that God stands by. (And no, this is not only in the Bible, but in pretty much every religious book, in pretty much every main religion).
The whole reason we judge is because we agree or disagree. I read the bible in my christian primary school, and pondered it until last year. I've come to the conclusion, that the holy books contradict themselves and are not to be listened to in my life. My opinion is, that instead of looking to the ceiling for answers I'll go find them myself.
If there is a God (and to be honest, I doubt it) I, and the thousands of other LGBT people will answer for ourselves regarding who we love. I dont need a book to explain my actions- I just need a book to write them in for future reference.
Oh and for your and like minded peoples information-
Obama disagrees with proposition 8, calling it discriminatory.
Very good post, Candace.
I know many gay people. I can assure anybody that these people were born the way they are. I'm not speaking of those that wish to "experiment" just to see what it's like.
PCB, in all due respect for you and your beliefs. Which, I might add, I'm not trying to change. I really think you might be deceiving yourself to think you can have such complete control over your future children. I really don't believe this to be true. Unless you plan to try brainwashing techniques, you should maybe prepare yourself for what could happen.
I am really confused about some of your comments. You aren't judgemental but here in this thread, you are being judgemental. Some of your remarks are contradicting as well.
It's none of my business what people do behind closed doors or otherwise. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I get really concerned when people that love each other, no matter what their color, creed, or sexual preference, are excluded from living like the so called "normal" people live. They may be gross and disgusting to you, but, it's not your business to critique them, and they are human beings just like you are.
This perfect world that you have in your sights may turn out to dissapoint you.
I also voted "no" on our Florida amendment. I'm very sad that it was voted in. We need to band together in this country for the good of all of us. Not segregate people even more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisy and Delilah
Wonderfully said, my thoughts exactly.
PCB, From your post I am understanding that you obviously didn't get to choose your husband. I am sorry about that and the fact that you think you can't be with the one you really love. Personally, I think that's a lie. I just hope you don't choose your kids' husband or wife as your parents did for you. Also, you say you don't descriminate.... Can you spell Hypocrite?"
I'm really busy today, and do not have time to respond to the other posts right now, but I had to respond to this post...because this post is the joke of the century!!! GOOD LORD!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by beeniesmom
I chose my husband, love my husband with all my heart, would give my life for my husband, and much, much more. Everyone who knows me knows that, and everyone who knows my husband knows that he adores me the same. I truly can't get over how ridiculous AND infuriating this post of your's was, and can't for the life of me understand what you derived it from. Sheesh.
I am furious that you dare speak about my husband and parents in the way that you did. God has blessed me with the best husband, the best parents, and tremendous love in my life, and neither my parents, nor my husband has ever forced me into anything I didn't want, and I am confident that they never will.
The bottom line is the majority of California, the majority of America, and the majority of the world agree with me. Gay marriages are illegal in most of the country, and in most of the world, and ALL of the propositions regarding this issue this elections have passed by the vote of the people. Even IF you believe in the gay lifestyle, there IS NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT. They have 'rights' in the state. No one is seperating them or commanding them to live away from each other. Why do they want marriage? Is this all about money? Inheritance and insurance benefits? I cannot see any other reason why they want to call it marriage so badly because there is no other special benefit that calling it marriage will give them.
As for me, I do not believe anyone is born gay and I never will. I do believe some people are born as intersexuals with both sexual organs or neither. Anyone who is born with a condition has no control over the way they are. No one has control over whether they have white skin or black, whether they will be tall or short, whether they will have blue eyes or brown. Anyone who is 'born' in a certain way carries no blame for how they are born. I do not believe anyone is born gay, and most people don't. There is no scientific evidence that there is a gay gene. Even if there were, the population of gays would die out, because gays cannot reproduce, and thus cannot pass the genes on to the next generation. We're all born the same, pure, innocent, beautiful, male or female. When you go to visit a new mom at the hospital, there are two balloon options. "IT'S A BOY!!!" or "IT'S A GIRL!!!" There isn't any, "IT'S A GAY!!!"
Kids don't 'turn out' to be gay. I've known several girls in high school who claimed that they just realized they're gay. Fast forward a few years, they are all now with MALE partners. So much for being gay. They're just confused. If they were truly born gay and had to be with a gay partner, then none of that would've changed. We all have control over where we put our hands, where we put our feet, where we turn our gaze to, where we give a listening ear, and where we put our sexual organs. The sexual actions we do are a choice we make. No one MAKES us do it. It IS a choice, nothing more.
I do not believe I will have ultimate control over my kids. No one does. I will have the duty to nurture and guide them. When kids grow up, they do what they want, and parents hope that they will stick to the guidance they gave them. I hope for the same.
Funny how you guys turn to personal offenses instead of addressing the issue at hand. I thought Americans respect majority vote. Isn't that what democracy is all about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by popcornbird
Now you know how I feel when reading some of the things you come up with. EESH. :eek:
How do you know the rest of the world agree with you!
Or the majority of california!
How many young gay and lesbian people do you think cant vote because of the age restriction- you appear to have forgotten them all.
Yes, what we do is a choice. who we're attracted to isnt.
you can be presented with blue and pink, and like the pink better. You can say you like the blue better, but truly, you still like the blue better.
Why is it any of your business who does what behind their bedroom door anyway PCB?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3735668.stm
Pull your head out of your bible and research before you preach.
Ignorance is bliss hm.
Well for one thing....
I will use my SIL as an example. If she were to end up in the hospital in a coma or in surgery or whatever... her partner would not be allowed to be with her unless a "real" family member was there to allow it. but since my SIL's parents live 9 hours away that isn't always possible for them to be right there right away. But becasue my SIL and her partner aren't married her partner could not be with her until another family member were able to get there. And while they have a child... her partner gets no say in anything that happens to my SIL just because they can't get married. To me that is horrible.
At the very least grant them civil unions.
I don't have time right now for a detailed post but I have to say this......it sounds like you live a sheltered life, at least thinking you have no gay people around you.
I can tell, without a doubt, that you don't really know any gay people too well do you? Because you seem to assume alot and choose not to become familiar with gays and become educated, I can put little or no faith in what you say at all.
Your arrogance and lack of knowledge is astounding.
As far as Americans respecting majority vote. Doesn't that imply that I have to go along with someone just because it's their opinion and not mine? Why bother to have a choice on the ballot?
Please open your mind and heart to what people here are telling you. You speak of gays like some sort of monsters that decide to be weird. That's not even close to the truth. I can only beg you to become educated before you write any more hateful comments.
You still haven't answered the question directly. What will you do if one of your children is gay and comes out to you? What will you do? Will you stop loving he/she when this happens?
How would you feel if you or one of your relatives were in the position of the SIL sparks speaks about?
I really can't believe the audacity of some of your remarks. Incorrect assumptions and general statements without backup. All the gays I know would give you every chance in the world if you needed one. Please do the same for them.
So much for a short post..........your original post listed many uncalled for remarks. You basically invited rebuttal so please don't wonder where it's coming from.
I agree that my post was the joke of the century. I just wanted to ruffle your feathers and make you feel what a lot of people here are feeling by reading your ridiculous posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by popcornbird
We probably should just agree to disagree here because it's getting uglier.
That is exactly what you did when you mentioned wierd and gross things done behind closed doors.Quote:
Originally Posted by popcornbird
I just want to make it known that PCB is not Christian, she is Muslim, so she doesn't read the Bible. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pickle-
I am a Christian and I support the gay/lesbian community. Jesus taught us to love our neighbors. I understand that you don't believe in God, and I respect that. But I do believe in Him, and I believe that He made you to be exactly who you are - and He loves you for it. :love: