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Can we just stop breed-specific bashing altogether? No one would tolerate someone talking about disliking and not going near a dog because it is a pit or a rottie, but no one has a problem with people making statements like that about goldens/labs or other breeds. I'm very saddened and disturbed by some of what I'm reading here.
well said, Jess. So am I. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by K9soul
Wolfsoul you are right.....fighting is not bred. I SHOULD have typed aggression-tendencies. Mea Culpa on the typo. But I don't want to get into envirornment vs. genetics we could go on forever on that one in both humans and animal world.
The bottom line is this (which I don't think anyone responded to, ehe?),
they have a very bad rep; laws have been enacted around the world on them, China and Europe and the U.S.. Once again, I guess it's all unwarranted just "picking" on the poor little Pit??? I really think not.
And again, once again..........anyone can cite that this or that breed bit (of course every breed has bitten) "I was bitten by this breed" or "I was bitten by that breed," yes dogs bite. But the laws came down from on "high" not because this breed bites, it is the damage that it inflicts when it does bite and how and why or why not it does bite..........the breed doesn't just bite, it clamps down and it, in most cases mauls. And if the people who love the breed don't start cleaning it up and quit making excuses for it the end result could be a total ban in the future.
Then all of the enthuiasts would be saying "woulda, shoulda, coulda."
Folks, we are not talking about "nipping" and "snapping" and a nick on your hand and intolerance we are talking about actual bodily harm of which its intentions lead to.
And Dr. Goodnow....you forgot to add that the most UNPROVOKED ATTACKS are Pits or mixes thereof. They have earned this reputation by actions and will continue to do so as long as the enthusiasts at large continue to make excuses and boohoo to the media and Animal Planet.
And K9 I do not dislike Pit Bulls, I hate what has been done to them but I can guarantee you if someone were to let out a few Pit Bulls in a city park anywhere, people would be jumping out of the way, grabbing up and sheltering their children and not getting out of their vehicles. But I doubt that if someone let out a Shitzu, a Maltese and a couple of Cocker Spaniels you would see the same reaction.
And just so I can join in..............Well, I have been bitten (actually torn) by a big ol' English Sheepdog.........am I afraid of them....noooooo.
And there are FAR more than 431 documented cases between 1965 and 2001
that's just the cases they "eenie, meenie, minie, mode" out of there. There were far more than that in the last 3-4 years.
And I'm not "bashing" anything, but call it what you want. A lot of people need to wake up before their beloved breed goes any farther down the tubes and do something for them IF they love the breed so much. The first step to solving problems is to admit that there is a problem and there is, except I see so many who hold themselves out as lovers of the breed do nothing and do not even admit that there IS a problem.
They do not have the reputation for nothing.
Most "pit bull" attacks were not actually pit bulls or even pit bull mixes, Love That Collie! You need to look at the first and foremost and from what i've learned a dog NEVER attacks unprovoked there is always a reason!!
Animal rescue in a nutshell, you are incorrect.
There isn't ALWAYS a reason that a dog bites or attacks.
There ARE unprovoked attacks, I'm sorry but you need to do
some more research. Or if you are citing a "reason" to be that a person simply walked by a house or business is a "reason" then well, that's called an
"excuse". That's ludicrous.
Love that Collie,
Please understand I am not taking sides you were the only one that caught the point of my post. ALL dogs can and will bite. I agree totally that the amount of damage done by Pit is signifigantly greater than that of collie (used for demo purposes only). I do not hate nor love Pitties, they just aren't "my" breed. My daughter has 2 both well adjusted dogs both wonderful. I do believe they are the rule,not the exception, however that being said if either one decided to "turn" , my grandson and granddaughter wouldn't stand a chance in hell. However they are only here because 18 yrs ago a Pit at a dog show saved my daughter from another dog attacking. So for me I think they are in general ,and in the case of well bred dogs ,an amazing breed in the RIGHT hands and home. I also know that the breed is being destroyed and not only do the dogs suffer but the people on the wrong end of their attack.
I don't think they are alone in their destruction as money comes before all to some breeders of many breeds. BTW my only bad bite ever given that required stiches was from a pair of dogs that chased me after school 25 years ago .......................a Shepherd and a Cocker. We own both breeds,along with a Dobe. As I said all dogs can and will bite it is their defense. It is the dogs that are bred badly that become dangerous.
Agreed. It just saddens me to hear these people saying that Pitbulls are great dogs etc (which I agree with), and how they get upset when some people don't go near pits because of the bad rep. BSL has given them, but then they say that they are afraid of Goldens/Labs and won't go near one unless they absolutely have to. It's the same thing basically but instead they don't want to go near goldens/labs, most of the time great tempered dogs. I have been bitten by dogs before, even chased when I was little. My aunt's chihuahua mix bit me on my lip and probably could've done more damage had my cousins not been there to stop him. My mom and I were chased by two dobes when i was little. Only been bitten/chased one time, I have no fear of that particular breed. I can see however that after being bitten multiple times you might be a bit skiddish around that particular breed, but avoiding them altogether seems a little harsh. Just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by K9soul
In reference to Animal rescue: YES VIRGINIA THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS! meaning that yes there are unprovoked attacks. Most recent in a personal matter is a friend of mine that rescues Dobes and Fosters them she is 57 years old, has been doing this for over 30 years, so I think she has enough experience to speak. A rescue Dobe(4 yr old F) we were interested in that had been being fostered by her for almost 6 months, got along with dogs cats etc. had been around her family kids grands etc. walked over while 2 other dogs were playing fetch with her grandchild grabbed him by the head and began mauling him he required 122 stitches. There was NO provocation, she got up went out the dog door and attacked him. Period end of story and for Sparkle end of the line she was humanely PTS. Who knows what happened in her life? or what her thoughts were when it happened? the point is it did.
I think there can be a difference between "provoked" and "triggered." I think it's more accurate to say there is always a trigger, but whether that is something that is within the dog and not identifiable, i.e. neurologic disorder perhaps, or just prey drive suddenly kicking in, is not always apparent to us. Provoked I think more along the lines of a person is doing something directly to the dog that causes it to react by attacking.
Based on that definition I will agree. It not only makes sense but rings true if you understand my meaning?
Dr. Goodnow.......re your posts #67 and 69.......well stated.
And how could I even forget, last year I was chased by an unrestrained lab and a GSD at the same time and I also owned a Doberman years ago too.
And I do agree with you in that the breed is being destroyed on the fast track.
And the only point I'm trying to make is that a lot of people have their "eyes wide shut" and instead of that breed enthusiast whining about how it's not right, those enthusiasts need to stop whining about it and expend some kinetic energy doing something about their supposed beloved breed.
I agree. there's there is almost always something that triggers a dog to attack you.. they don't do it on purpose! there's always a reason why a dog would attack. being abused, neurogical problems, in pain..bad past life, etc. Some give a warning as a growl at first and then you need to leave them alone. I just don't know, a lot of what was said on this thread upsets me..just the bad things being said about dogs. I am a hard core dog lover and I hate to see them discriminated against. :( they don't judge us, why should we judge them?Quote:
Originally Posted by K9soul
Totally agreed LMC. I raised and showed Rotties for nearly 23 years total, had some of the top Am Can Japanese champions. Fact is my beloved breed is being ruined by a deadly few people, compared to the many breeders and showers that care. The Pittie is on the fast track to total destruction and our only hope is to fuly support those that are breeding for all the right things these dogs have to offer. I say this not just for the pitties but for all the breeds. Not everyone should be a breeder no matter how adorable Fluffy may be. Our Cocker has more Champions in her line than you shake a stick at, she is stunning! She is Amazing! She is spayed. Yes I paid a small fortune in breach of contract fees but the fact is she has issues she can and will pass on to pups. Period. I will not spend my days wondering if a pup of mine harmed a person.
OK I'll jump in real quick, but just real quick. I think K9Soul just hit it. We look at the breeding not just the breed. Look at us humans. What Neurological break down is causing the human race to be so aggressive and murderous? Is it bad DNA from these peoples generations past that the Neurological part of thier brain snaps in a blink of the eye? Why should a dog be different? Unfortunately in purebred breeding we are in control of what line breeds to what line.Quote:
I think there can be a difference between "provoked" and "triggered." I think it's more accurate to say there is always a trigger, but whether that is something that is within the dog and not identifiable, i.e. neurologic disorder perhaps, or just prey drive suddenly kicking in, is not always apparent to us.
Now why the concern of the Pit bull? Look at the power of the breed. Thats what makes it so much more dangerous then some of the others. I think I would rather be snapped and bitten by a Dachsund then crushed by the powerful jaws of a pit bull.I would rather be bitten by a GSD/Husky mix (which I have) then to encounter the bite of a pit bull. This is where all the bashing on these pits are coming from. They are just to powerful of biters. Someone said earlier in the threat that they were used to hunt and kill rats. Well when they found the rat I bet they didnt play with it till it died but crushed it till there was no movement in thier mouth before they let go.
It all boils down to what the neurological problem a certain dog may have if he wants to attack for no reason. No matter the breed. I have never been charged by a pit bull. I have been charged by 2 GSDs while walking my collie. I was able to quickly settle them down as they were 30 ft from me by talking nicely and acting like I was thier best friend. It usually works on most dogs. Luckily they weren't on a mission to attack.
Thats my two cents today on this subject. Oh and I want to thank all the groomers out there for taking one for the team for those who don't want to learn to groom thier own dogs. ;)
I have met a lot of pit bulls every one of them have been sweet and I am NOT just saying that either! I volunteer at my local no-kill shelter and have met quite a few and they all are sweet! :) they are bred for fighting which I hate and they are good with people..some are not good with other dogs. they cannot be shown ANY human aggression at all. when they fall into the right hands of RESPONSIBLE owners like Jadapit, I wish there were more responsible pit bull owners in this world like her. when they fall into the wrong hands, it screws up the reputation of the breed and ya know why they are banned in some places and have the reputation that they do? because of irresponsible ; careless owners!!