Again, Marigold, in her comments about creationism being taught in the classroom, it's clear that her point was not the it should be taught as part of the lesson, but that discussion should be allowed if it came up.
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Again, Marigold, in her comments about creationism being taught in the classroom, it's clear that her point was not the it should be taught as part of the lesson, but that discussion should be allowed if it came up.
Interesting... Basing people on the actions of their teenagers. If their kids were out murdering people... OK. That's over the top.
But how many of you can HONESTLY say that you never caused your parents any gray hairs? You NEVER did wrong? YOu NEVER made any mistakes a a child/young adult. should your parents pay today for your mistakes when learning to become an adult?
I am adult enough to admit that my mistakes when i was old enough to know better (not talking infant/toddler)were NOT my parents fault. My parents did their BEST to teach me right from wrong. I wasn't allowed to just roam the streets, have boys sleep over, do drugs... etc etc. And I suspect none of you were allowed to either. But I will bet everything I have that you have made mistakes. do you believe your parents should pay for that?
Perhaps you do... makes me sad. I take full responsibility for my mistakes as a teen... and now my mom and I are best friends. I can't WAIT to talk to her on the phone everyday. I weep because she is so far away from me and I can't see her whenever I want to. she did the best she could without chaining me to the house. And while some may have issues with me... she has done a darn good job. I don't have a criminal record, I never got sent to the principals office, my only ride home in a police car was when I was out riding my bike when I was 16 and I hurt myself and couldn't get to a phone or anything and it was just my luck that a cop came by and pulled over to help me. Officer Noel... I will never forget him and the help he offered me. YOu may not like my views but i am a good person and I try to spread that to others in my daily life... SO... should my parents be crucified because I made some mistakes? should yours?
I am willing to bet that your parents did the best they could to raise you and yet you still went out as a teen and did things that you KNEW you shouldn't do... even the "small" things. Sorry but at 17.... your parents can't hold you under lock and key. It's just foolish to believe otherwise. People make mistakes.
Not believe in Evolution? :eek::eek::eek: Why it's all around you. Every new rose bush, tomato, zinnia color, designer dog are all part of evolution. Weather man made or actually coming about on it's own it's all changing and evolving. We are taller now then 100 years ago. So we have evolved as well. Sometimes it's a seed being carried by a bird across the states and a new plant comes into being, having to adapt and adjust to a new climate. Evolution is a science, always changing, always growing as is our planet. Just look at how dogs and cats have changed because a human hand helped with breeding. Evolution you bet. All the millions of plants, birds, insects that evolved without us evening knowing. All the mystery in the ocean we can't understand, all these creatures evolved to their climates and conditions. Just as we have. Look at the pigmey people. Shorter, smaller because they don't have as much food as we do. We are not better then them, just different. They have adapted and evolved to survive that area.
Evolution also as far as I know does not start wars. It's a science. It is also not a moral issue unless you enter something like test tube babies into the mix.
As for teaching religon in school which one should we teach? Jewish, Budda, Hindu, Jevhovah Witness, Baptist, Lutheran? Should we eat meat on Friday?
Should we go by the Jewish calender? Not believe or teach that Jesus is our savior? When was the last time a Jewish person said to you "Hey you are praying to the wrong dude, he was just a carpenter and now I am going to make sure your child learns that in school"
Tell our children that giving blood to a dying child is a sin? Or do we go by the Catholic religon and not use birth control? So many options. Perhaps we should teach the Jewish religon on Friday, Catholic on Thursday, Budda on Monday.
Seperation of church and state is one of the most important and sane things this country stands for. We need to keep our moral views out of our neighbors lives.
School is not a place for any religon, it's a place to learn, grow and accept others regardless of what they believe at home. Otherwise we become another Iraq were we are told what to believe, how to live, how to pray.
This is America and no one has the right to tell any one how to pray. Nor if sex before marriage is correct, or how many kids to have (as long as you can afford them hopefully) or not to give blood.
Do I believe in God, oh yes, do I pray everyday oh yes. I also pray that others have that freedom and that it is not in vain to all those that died giving it to us.
Loving God, praying should never be something that is forced on anyone, we should not be told who to pray to, when, where or how. No how to live our lives, as long as we don't hurt others, what we do in our homes, our bedrooms, is no ones business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
but then not everyone. The other day I heard a cute little joke about God & why he/she decided to make humans he was bored watching the apes & monkeys. He/she decided to create more entertaining speices.:D
In my schooling system, evolution is taught in biology.
All the six main religions are learned about in religious studies.
In BOTH subjects, the beliefs of theists and atheists are discussed. No shoving down throats, no abhorring one or the other.
Should this not be the way forward in ALL schools?
Palin being named McCain's running mate has made my decision who I'm voting for easy.
Palin has put a bounty of $150/head in the hunting of wolves in Alaska. She has also okayed the drilling of oil in her neck of the woods. She is a diehard NRA member (nothing wrong with that).
Our country is in total disarray because of global warming. The icebergs are melting fast and furiously causing a domino affect with the animals whose lives depend on those icebergs. The forests that the animals live are being ripped apart.
What will a woman with 5 children do if, God forbid, something happens to McCain who is 72 is, which I doubt, elected into office? Will she be able to run this country in his absence??? Don't think so. She doesn't have the experience.
VOTE OBAMA!!!!
For starters, my apologies to all for my off the hook posts earlier in this thread. I let my passion get the best of me.
I gotta admit this one makes me scratch my head a little. But I want to know more than just the side of the story we have been told.Quote:
Originally Posted by moosmom
So drilling on about 1000 acres of the extreme north slope, a barren wasteland, is a bad thing?Quote:
She has also okayed the drilling of oil in her neck of the woods.
I first refer you to this article.Quote:
Our country is in total disarray because of global warming. The icebergs are melting fast and furiously causing a domino affect with the animals whose lives depend on those icebergs. The forests that the animals live are being ripped apart.
http://www.dailytech.com/Sun+Makes+H...ticle12823.htm
I sadly do not have it handy, but I saw an article that had some pretty strong evidence that linked global temperature to the suns activity. I mean, that just makes sense. This is not to say that we should not be good stewards of our planet. I support, both with my money and my time, the activities of several organizations that probably do more to protect our environment than you would want to believe. The two biggest ones are the NRA and the National Wild Turkey Federation.
But I digress...
Surely our environment needs some TLC, but I do not subscribe to the sensational ideas you put forth. "Total Disarray?"
Ice Melting?
http://www.randomjottings.net/archives/003023.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0110/p14s01-sten.html
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=851
It seems the topic is still a matter of scientific debate.
FWIW, I pay a great deal of attention to the global warming debate. It matters to me because in the next year or so, my family is going to roll the dice and buy a sizeable farm in South Dakota. I am getting back to my roots and I am going to spend the rest of my days working the land. So this issue matters to me. Alot.
Here is what I do not understand... This woman is everything the womens liberation types want all women to be. Yet, now she is being derided for it. Can one of you ladies explain how it is all of a sudden a BAD thing to be a working mother?Quote:
What will a woman with 5 children do if, God forbid, something happens to McCain who is 72 is, which I doubt, elected into office? Will she be able to run this country in his absence??? Don't think so. She doesn't have the experience.
Because he is better than YOU! ;) LOLQuote:
VOTE OBAMA!!!!
Perhaps I am not "with it" but isn't there some embarrassment involved in being a 17 year old unmarried and pregnant?
I am surprised that a mother would subject her daughter to the incredible scrutiny - late night tv show jokes and everything else that goes with it by being selected as a candidate for vice president. In this circumstance I would think you would want to protect your daughter from that.
(And before anyone gets all uppity about making jokes about the children a.) I agree but b.) there is reality. Was it Rush Limbaugh who make the joke that the Clintons had a dog in the White House and then put up a photo of Chelsea??)
Perhaps, and just perhaps as I am not a mind reader... But perhaps she did not want her daughter to live with the burden of knowing that her mother passed on the opportunity of a lifetime because of her. Perhaps her daughter having this child is a blessing to them and to her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
Thats the thing, we don't know. A crying shame that both sides of the aisle are playing it up in the press.
Aww c'mon Sara, even you know that isn't true. Back when I graduated high school (in 1964 :o ) we had two KNOWN pregnancies and who knows how many others went off somewhere to have their babies or to kill them. Even Obama took the high road on this, as I expected him too, by saying that his own mother was 18 when she had him. I am sure it was not convenient for her as a teen to have a bi-racial baby either back then. Think of the whole abortion situation that we have now. What if Obama's mother had chosen that route. Who would the Democrats have for a candidate now? :) Don't get me wrong - I think McCain really blew it with his selection but I applaud Palen's daughter for her decision to keep this baby!Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
To be honest... teen pregnancies are becoming more and more common (or at least aren't hidden from the world) and carry less stigma as time goes on. Not saying I agree with teen pregnancy. But it's definitely not like it used to be. many of these girls attend school right up until the birth and in a lot of places this is a common sight to see. For some odd reason... some teens actually strive to acheive this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
It's not an ideal situation... but nothing to be embarassed about IMO. this is not a time to be embarassed.. this is a time to step up and handle your responsibility no matter what anyone says.
We must have gone to different schools Pam! I remember one girl who got pregnant in high school and she "went away". It was very hush-hush.
I still would want to spare my daughter the embarrassment.
So, I'm sorry, I didn't know there is no embarrassment to being an unwed mother at 17! A different world indeed!
What's odd is when I read the articles about that school on the East Coast where there was allegedly an outbreak of young girls wanting to get pregnant -- it made such a fuss???
Obviously this is a bit of a scandal otherwise it wouldn't be all over the news even in this day and age. Especially when you have taken the moral high road. Do I think its anybodies business, heck no leave the kid alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
it certainly is... we were just talking about this on another pet forum. How they wouldn't even show desi and Lucy sitting in bed as a married couple. My mom told me about how "Wake up little Susie" was banned from radio play because it implied that the girl and the guy spent the night together.
Now we have movies about teen pregnancy... bordering on comedies. songs talk about sex all the time, we have movies with full frontal nudity that are not considered pornography and it's not unusual to see teens caught in bed together on TV shows.
Very different world.
Yes, one of the girls that got pregnant in my high school was one of my very best friends! It totally blew me away. She carried the baby almost to the end of the school year and I remember many mornings seeing her head off to the ladies room with morning sickness. It was a hard time back then, but not now at all. As far as sparing embarrassment within one's family - when you decide to run for office your life becomes an open book. You either take the heat or get out of the kitchen. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
It's sad that it is even an issue. I couldn't help but think as I watched some of the coverage that this was just childish pure and simple to even mention it. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by caseysmom
The story from Gloucester about the girls getting pregnant made news because it was a pact between several high school aged girls to purposefully get pregnant. The school administration supposedly knew about it, and the reason it made national media was because the school admins did nothing about it.
Teen pregnancy has and will always be around, what differs is in how it is handled.
There is an article in Time about how the residents of Wasalia, AK view the "problem", and in their view it's a) not a big deal, and b) none of anyone else's damned business.
Yes it is definetely below the belt I think children are off limits. I don't think this will hurt her at all, good for her supporting her daughter through thick and thin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam
I agree. this has so little to do with the election itself and the candidates policies etc etc why is it even mentioned?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam
it could be worse. She could be out running around doing drugs and get involved in criminal activities. So she had sex and got pregnant... it happens. and she is stepping up and taking responsibility and it sounds like the father of this child is doing the same.
I'm a lady and I don't think there is anything BAD about being a working mother - IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB!!! Sorry, but Obama will get my vote based on the selection of Palin by Mcain. I don't think there's anyone out there that hasn't given the thought to the idea that McCain stands a very good chance of not even being around long enough to complete a whole term. Then what???? I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't want to take a chance on Palin - I'm just not a gambler. She may have many good qualities and abilities, but being the leader of this great country isn't one of them. Ten or fifteen years from now might be a different story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstop31
Fair enough. Still, the same could be said for Obama. I mean, he does not want to be a heartbeat away from being POTUS, he wants to BE the POTUS.Quote:
Originally Posted by pomtzu
I am sure its been hashed out before, but at least Palin has some executive experience.
Than main reason I like Palin is because of her LESS government stance on things. More government = less freedom. You can be free or you can be "safe". I choose free. But that is just me I suppose.
That is not enough for most of us. Last night I watched Larry King and he had on James Carville (who I have never cared for) and some others on his panel. I almost felt sorry for the McCain people trying to defend his selection. Carville hit them and hit them hard with some of his questions which they tried to not answer. What qualifications does she have to lead this nation with three wars ongoing at this time? I guess we are to assume that McCain will handle the wars and she will handle the economy. :rolleyes: Neither thought gives me great comfort. I think McCain has shot himself in the foot big time, but not because there is anything wrong with Ms. Palen. She is just the wrong gal for the job IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstop31
Sparks19,
Don't forget all the illegitimate "baby bumps" seen in the tabloids. Does Brad and Angelina ring a bell?? What kind of message does that send? It's pathetic. Here in CT, the more kids you have, the more welfare you get. Nice, huh?? Back in the late 60's we also had a girl that "went away". I ran into her a couple of years ago and she wound up marrying the guy who got her pregnant way years later.
I do applaud Palin for standing by her daughter. I'd do the same if it were my daughter. It has absolutely nothing to do with the campaign for President.
Scandals aside, I agree with you on this. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam
Any person considering a run for public office has to know their whole
life story is going to be public knowledge. Palin can't be surprised at the
hoopla over personal stories in the news.
Not many people outside Alaska even heard of Palin before this, so yeah,
expect to hear a lot more as more is known.
The way I see it - we have both. Do you really think Palin has the ability and experience to keep it that way if she were put in the position where she had to? :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstop31
It cyclic!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam
It was an issue that needed to be 'taken care of''.
Then it became a non-issue for a while-Now it's back in the news again.
It's glamorized when it's a teen star and it's condemned when it's happens in a political family. SP's daughter isn't a political figure or media figure.
Anyway, you have to blame it on the schools for letting the boys swim in the same pool as the girls.:p
----------------------
Scientist just noted that the month of August was sunspot free.
For the first time since 1913 scientist noted that there was zero sunspot activity. Sunspots, which have an effect on weather patterns across the globe, increase the average global temp. No sunspots mean that the average temps will drop and may put the earth into 'mini ice ages'.
These lower temps shorten the seasons and make it hard to grow food crops.
Check it out.
I also heard this morning (I think it was on Good Morning America) that Palen's husband had a DUI about 20 years ago. Now that is "up to date Breaking Headline News!" :p:p:rolleyes::rolleyes: Honestly, they are turning over every rock they can find to the point of being absolutely ridiculous!
I don't know about y'all, but I am looking forward to the VP Debates (more than I normally am). It will be a great debate.
I saw that too. Pathetic nit-picking!!! Who cares??? And what does it have to do with anything related to the v.p. position anyway!!!! About as much as her daugter's pregnancy I figure!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam
I too am sick of all the airing of the dirty laundry. It does give you some insight in to what these folks have been doing over the past 20 years. I can honestly say that I have not gotten a DUI or had my daughter get pregnant at age 17.
My concern is........ that one would hope that our elected officials are a cut above the average citizen. I don't feel that Palin is a cut above at all. I don't think there are too many government officials in the cut above category, to tell you the truth. I have a feeling that "the cut above folks" don't run for office! We are stuck with the people who dare run. Then we get to hear about the short comings. And they seem to be endless.
I don't feel Palin represents my beliefs and/or standards. Just plain and simple. I don't want Palin or McCain, representing me or my country. I am not in love with Obama and/or Biden, just not embarrassed by them. I trust they will put the best people possible on the staff and in the cabinet and keep their noses clean. I like Michelle Obama and family. I don't know much about Biden's wife and/or his family.
It's a crap shoot for sure.
:eek:
Ya mean she can take dictation???:p Just kidding. I couldn't resist.Quote:
but at least Palin has some executive experience.
It seems every election has it's share of "skeletons" that seem to appear from nowhere. Politicians should expect to be under the microscope when running for office.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw naked parties!
Pam, this is for you too. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pomtzu
OK, I guess I can best answer this question by giving you a little blurb about me and what I really believe in. Like a 50,000 ft level look.
I am a Libertarian at my core. But not as extreme as many people who are also Libertarians. I really believe in the American people. Deep down, I do not really think the majority of us are the kind of people who sit around and wait for others to do things for us. When push comes to shove, WE make it happen. Thus, for We The People to truly excel, we need the government to get OUT of our way, not in it more. Now, yes it is true that in many ways, this kind of thinking is harsh. Because in "my" world, when you buy a house that is out of your means and get evicted... Tough. Did not plan properly for your retirement and are broke? Tough! Hope your family or community can help you. Do not take this to mean I do not have compassion, because I do. I just KNOW at my core, that we are better than any of the nonsense FORCED on us by a government that is corrupt to its core and power MAD.
Thus, the primary reason I really like Sarah Palin. She is SO far outside the beltway. Also, I know that there is a grand difference between knowledge and wisdom. I feel that Palin is wise. Sure, she is not perfect, but who is? Also, I believe she is humble enough to realize that the most important part of being POTUS is surrounding yourself with good people. Good people who really will tell her she is wrong. Frankly, this is my number one issue with Obama. (Numbers two and three come in a sec....LOL) He just comes off as a know it all. "I can do this.... I will do that...." That is change? More promises that he cannot even come close to delivering, save from taxing us into submission?
Next, grouped in with my 3 main issues is the issue of the 2nd Amendment. The Amendment that protects all our other rights. It does not grant a right, it affirms a God given right. The right for ME to protect myself and my family from tyranny... Be that it comes from Washington DC or a home intruder. Clearly, Barack Obama is in no way a friend of the 2nd Amendment. Of course, he pays lip service to it, but his voting record is crystal clear. Sure, he is not so stupid as to go for an outright ban, he will just try to make it next to impossible, to buy firearms or ammunition. Wanna see the next revolution in the USA? Do that. Seriously. There are tens of millions of people who will NOT let that happen. Serious people who are not the "gun nuts" you think of. Sarah Palin is a lifetime NRA member. Nuff said.
And finally, the economy. Barack Obama is an out right marxist. What else to you call a proposal to TAKE money from oil companies and give it to people? If windfall profits were truly his issue, why not Google? Why not Microsoft? Why not AL GORE? All the things he proposes are going to cost a truckload of money. Where does it come from? His plan calls for increasing taxes on companies and cutting "middle class" taxes. That is not a tax cut, that is just swapping numbers around. Do you think that those tax increases will not find their way into the price of products? The Nanny State, telling you serfs how to live. Talk about fascism....
So yes, I really believe Sarah Palin has what it takes to be a great leader. She is not perfect, but she is a REAL change in the direction I want to see the country go.
I'll add, just for the record, I oppose her on the issues of abortion and on her stance on same sex issues. We can get into that if you like. LOL I'm here all week, try the fish. :)
LOL, true enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by moosmom
As for your first sentence... Being Govenor of a state is not executive experience?
But you say the rest like she is whining about the coverage. I have not seen anything that has her complaining. Pundits, sure, but her directly? No. She seems like a tough woman, so I wish they would let her respond. I'd love to see what she has to say. Me thinks it would be the verbal version of flipping the bird. LOL
If you have something that has her complaing about the coverage directly, please share. I'd truly like to see it.
Well, Puckstop, if I didn’t know better, I would think you are the man I married.
He is also a Libertarian. The best Presidential candidate he ever voted for was Harry Browne.
He says the current occupants of the White House should be tried for war crimes. One reason he does not tolerate McCain is McCain-Feingold. He agrees with your assessment of Obama. Unlike you though, he doesn’t think much of Palin because she is too socially conservative, and according to articles he’s read, her management style is to bully and demand political loyalty – sort of what we’ve had for far too many years. And she is running with McCain.
Douglas is a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter, another lifetime NRA member.
I agree that Palin's children (or any other candidates' children) should not be a factor in the election.
And, if it is true that parents cannot be held accountable for the actions of their teenage children, I assume we will not hear anything about Palin's son joining the military.
Well, well... LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Grace
I stop short of war crimes. Because as far as I know, it is not YET a crime to be stupid. You will get no arguement from me that the conflict was, especially in the inital aftermath, HORRIBLY mismanaged. Criminially so? Not so sure. Understand that I have real life, face to face exposure to the Islamic Extremeist. They are a threat. But this threat could have been dealt with in MUCH better ways.
Like I said, I am not 100% TOTAL hard core Libertarian. Mainly because I am a man of the Christian faith and I believe we need a differnt foreign policy than from what the Libertarians believe in.
A bully? I bet MEN wrote that. LOL ;) But like I said, she is not perfect, but INHO, much better than any other options.
Then, yes, she is running with McBush. Thats a tough one to swallow, but a little easier than the socialism of Obama.
Simply put, IMHO, she is the least of the evils and has the outside the beltway upside. Will it stop the nearly inevitable (again, IMHO) revolution? Doubtful. But ya never know.
I applaude him for his lifetime NRA membership. I am one also, I truly believe in the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and the right for ALL humans to have the right to defend themselves from tyranny, no matter what form it takes.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
With the caveat that she will easily be able to deflect the concept of, "you would not do this if YOUR son was in the military." Assuming she would be inthe position to take some sort of action.
A article I found about the Palin "wolf cub" issue.
http://www.adn.com/wildlife/story/491012.html
Thoughts?
Nope... I don't think she should get credit for her son joining the military. He should receive the credit for that. My point about her being held responsible for her daughter getting pregnant was that I doubt she was egging her on and pushing for this to happen. I doubt she said "Come on honey... go and have sex and get pregnant. it's the right thing to do" I doubt it.
it was only ten years ago that I was that age and as much as some people would like to believe parents have total control.... at that age they don't. there is nothing a parent can do to stop their son or daughter from having sex if that is something the teen wants to do. short of chaining her to the house. We don't know that she didn't teach her daughter how to protect herself. People who use protection get pregnant all the time. it happens. Is it ideal? Nope.
the daughter and the boyfriend are stepping up to the responsibility. and their family is supporting them. What more could anyone want? the daughter made a mistake and she is prepared to take responsibility for it. I think that speaks volumes.
If palin had have thrown her daughter out and disowned her for getting pregnant... now THAT I would have a problem with. they are your children for better or for worse.
Like my Aunt Nancy says "Kids... sometimes all you can do is stand beside them and support them"
One more...
http://wcbstv.com/campaign08/joe.lie....2.808783.html
"Punish" him for speaking his mind? Party is more important than policy? Party is more important that what you believe?
*Yeah, yeah... The R's do the same thing. That is not my point. My point is this is an example of why we need NEW blood. People who are not yet corrupted by the Washington DC mindset. Yeah. McCain is one of those guys... But Palin is not.