Michael Vick scores again....

I always have a problem expressing what I feel about lives- human or animal. It isn't that I place a higher value on animals than I do humans, but, that I place value on ALL living creatures. I never see it as a "which has more value" but that ALL have value. Like if you had two children...you wouldn't choose to save one over the other, in the case of a fire, would you? You would save both. You wouldn't say, "these are both humans, I must save both" you would say, "these lives are worth dying for, and I will save both". There is a difference.

Pom- you can jump on my bandwagon any ole time you like. :love::love:

Anyone that watched the game knows that MV is lucky to be alive.

He got his arse handed to him by the Vikes D-line.

I was surprised that he was still walking after the hip injury.

@Richard- I don't watch football. So, I didn't see the game. Are you saying that MV was treated more harshly because of the dog fighting stuff, or that it just was a very physical game cause that is the way it went?

It appeared that the game was very physical. I was actually surprised.. it was far more (for lack of a better word) violent than any football game I've seen in a long time. I don't know if that had to do with Vick, or just a change in the game in general, which is a whole 'nother thread.

I was talking to my dad about it while we were watching the game. On the one hand, I would hate to think that we lived in a society where someone who committed a crime, went to jail and served a sentance, and got back out could never get a job again doing their chosen profession. I would say the same thing about someone who was a delivery driver, sales person, etc. So in that respect, I think it's only natural that at some point, Vick was going to play professional football again. On the other hand, I don't like him, I don't believe that he's sorry, and I do believe that if he hadn't been caught he'd still be doing it and not feeling an ounce of remorse. I just don't think that means that he shouldn't be allowed to have a job, his job. It's touchy because it's a questions of morals for me, and that's not "fair" because it involves all kinds of personal judgements.

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Originally Posted by Cataholic

@Richard- I don't watch football. So, I didn't see the game. Are you saying that MV was treated more harshly because of the dog fighting stuff, or that it just was a very physical game cause that is the way it went?

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I don't know if he was treated any more harshly because of the dog fighting history, but.........

At the end of the year with so many playoff scenarios? There are teams wanting to improve on their standings for pride, some wanting to make the playoffs and some trying to play spoiler..The Vikes sucked this year and they were trying to keep Philly from getting any momentum going and to win the game.

MV is a mobile quarterback and he took many hits on Tues. He was really harrassed and some of the D-line players really teed off on him. I am sure that there are dog lovers in the NFL but they would never admit that they were trying to hurt him...to tell you the truth, when you play. you really don't care about stuff like that.

You want to knock the shiat out of MV, but when you aim that high, you do stupid things and open the door for penalties, ejection and maybe a League fine.

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That all said?

I am going to say something that will irritate some of you....

MV is a chump and a moron. I don't like him and think that he should be used to train attack/guard dogs. (I wish I had been the judge on that trial, I would have made him do that for about 6 months, and clean kennels for a year....)

MV is beyond talented as a football player.

Had he kept his nose clean he would be among the most revered and loved QBs in the game.

HE did pay a price for his a-holery, He lost playing time, money and went to jail.

This guy can play the game and is beyond what a coach would want from a player. I shook my head when I saw the games he played in-I never went out of my way to watch, but I would tune in to see him get creamed.

I guess that I am trying to say is that when you see someone THAT talented and gifted do stupid things like fight and kill dogs? the suspicion is that they have some kind of flaw in their character...no, no suspicion, it's a fact.

That is the saddest and most irritating thing about someone with that kind of gift......they have the ability to be tops in their field, but not the brains to execute a 'law abiding' living.

The more I see him play, I am even more angered that someone could be that brilliant at their profession, yet so dim in their life.

I'll never be a fan of his.

He did serve his time for what he did. But unless he saves a mom and her puppies from an ice floe going over Niagra Falls?

And even then, I would not readily forgive him.

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I guess it's up to what history will say about him.

I do believe in penance and forgiveness, but that's further down the line and not up to me to hand them out.

If you watch him play, you will see an exceptional talent. IT is separate from his personal life, but you are the same being when you walk into/onto your job.

IT's his cross to bear and it will follow him forever.:o

@Nom- okay, imagine this: a teacher gets convicted of pedophilia, serves his/her time and is released. Ok to go back to teaching? I think most of us would say that is an "H" to the "N", right? Why? Cause certain crimes ARE different than others. This one was one of them, to me. Sometimes people cannot be rehabilitated. Animal abuse isn't about the animal...it is about the person.

I think he should never, ever, be allowed within 10 feet of an animal, alone. I think people, as a whole, should stand up and do something more when it comes to crimes like this. Not just welcome him into the football fold as if he ran a red light. Why? Cause maybe just maybe there would be the fear of a public shunning for doing certain things.

Back in the day? Not yours or mine, I realize...but, 'bad' people didn't really get that free pass back into society. My parents weren't friends with kids that had been in the klink. To this day, the ONLY people I know that have served time in prison are clients. I don't associate with people that are convicted felons, outside of my job. Actually, can't really say I associate with people that are convicted misdemeanorers', either. I am excluding the traffic offenders, btw. Does that mean I am judgmental? As if there were a doubt, right?

Certainly, I think Pres O shouldn't have said a thing.

I just pushed away from the comp and thought about the numbers.

In the United States there are, what 300 million people?

Of those there are 1300 that play football.

Of those 1300, 32 start in the QB slot for an NFL team.

MV is one of the 32.

Not trying to plead his case?

That is one of the moind boggling facts.

He is good enough to play, but too stupid to stay out of trouble?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cataholic

@Nom- okay, imagine this: a teacher gets convicted of pedophilia, serves his/her time and is released. Ok to go back to teaching? I think most of us would say that is an "H" to the "N", right? Why? Cause certain crimes ARE different than others. This one was one of them, to me. Sometimes people cannot be rehabilitated. Animal abuse isn't about the animal...it is about the person.

Certainly, I think Pres O shouldn't have said a thing.

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Not to cause a fight.......


But the pedo teacher is a different scenario.

MV wasn't putting NFL players to death....this was something that most likely voided the clause in his contract-some players have to sign an "I'll behave" contract. Goodell, the NFL commish suspended him, the law took their piece and according to him, Vick has discharged his sentence and can play again.

There also is the fact the NFL players do have a union contract and can hire the best lawyers to fight their cases.

It's not a world that I will ever visit.....there have been tons of S-heads that have played.

Look up Ray Lewis, Rae Carruth, the kid from the Broncos that was killed on a NY's eve a few years ago...then check out all the Guys that get busted for violating the League drug policy......

There are people in the game, now and then, who were scumbags of the same magnitude as MV...

First off let me say I haven't read anyone's replies - I will go back and do so later. And secondly I do NOT follow sports I only follow what has been sensationalized locally. But in my own humble opinion - I think EVERY man in ANY sport (and I say Man b/c you don't really hear about women doing some of the things men have done) that has a felony on his record needs their salary revoked and given to the charity closest to the crime they commited. Drug abuse, animal abuse, domestic violence etc. And they need to be out on their a## and let someone that DESERVES the job be in the job!
But anyone who thinks he is rehabilitated
read

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Dogs-Mich.../dp/1592405509

THE LOST DOGS by JIM GORANT

Call yourself an animal lover and that Vick has rehabilitated and is repentant??Read about Michael Vick (HIMSELF) and one of his cronies taking a defenseless dog and b/c she wasn't fighting the way they wanted her to, they picked her up by her hind legs and took turns beating her against the floor and wall until almost every bone in her body is broken and she is dead. Now picture that as your precious dog or cat. Or read about how his cronies beat the dogs to death with a shovel, or hung them, or drowned them in 5 gallon buckets. And remember Vick says "I didn't know what I was doing was wrong!" what part of you in your every loving right mind would possibly thing putting anything to death in the ways you did would NOT be wrong?
and if he was convicted of being a sexual offender instead of animal cruelty - would you REALLY want him living beside you? beside your children? Do you really want him living by your pets?

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Originally Posted by Cataholic

@Nom- okay, imagine this: a teacher gets convicted of pedophilia, serves his/her time and is released. Ok to go back to teaching? I think most of us would say that is an "H" to the "N", right? Why? Cause certain crimes ARE different than others. This one was one of them, to me. Sometimes people cannot be rehabilitated. Animal abuse isn't about the animal...it is about the person.

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Absolutely a pedophile should not be allowed anywhere near children. But Vick abused animals (which I absolutely ABHOR. I think any animal fighting is disgusting and dispicable - including human boxing. I think it is dehumanizing. But animal is worse because they do not have a choice.)

And while I may think most NFL players are animals ;) - they are not the kind of animal Vick abused.

I have this situation with managers frequently - they don't want to hire someone who has had a conviction - and my argument - if they have been punished and no one will hire them - what will they do to make a living? More crimes?

Of course, it depends on the nature of the crime and the job for which they seek employment. That doesn't mean I want to hang out with convicted felons nor condone the crimes committed.

Disgusted as I am by what Vick did - and as much as I think sports figures are overpaid - there is a principle about redemption, debt to society paid, etc. that needs to be considered.

What is making me sick to my stomach is that MV is talking about owning dogs again. Scary.:eek: I don't care if he plays football again, the man has to make a living even if I detest him. The NFL SHOULD make him pay a large percentage of his salary to the ASPCA for the rest of his career. That way, some good could come from his reinstatement and high salary.

Again, not to start a fight?


Look if your loved one or SO was caught molesting kids/killing dogs/pedaling kiddie porn, it would be a different story.

Some of you would pledge solidarity to the death or run for hills.

Either way?

I hope none of you ever have to go thru that, but in reality?

Any scorn, hate or malice we hold toward MV doesn't really mean shiat.

And altho we watch from the periphery? It really doesn't matter.

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THE ABSOLUTE WORST THING ABOUT THE STORY that Staci posted was the fact that MV 'didn't know what he was doing was wrong".

That is a major flaw in the way he was raised and to me, a far more sinister problem-Vick is the one exposed to the public, how many other knuckleheads are there that roam the country unimpeded?

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There are people who have given people who have been in jail a chance.
The only one who gets thanked by the prez is the moron who gave MV the job.

With so many people out of work that DESERVE A JOB?

Barack Obama thanks the guy that hired the most obviously stupid offender.


Vick probably won BO the fantasy league championship with his play over the year.

I would not put it above the POTUS to start MV on his team..What a guy.:rolleyes::o:(

It seems to me that big-time sports superstars (and probably superstars in other big-time public worlds) get a free and easy pass on things like this. Just look at convicted-rapist-who-served-his-time Kobe Bryant. Even if they did these nasty things, they still can bring in huge amounts of money for themselves and those who give them the "second chance."

What this does is give a loud statement to the whole world that what that person did is really not that bad after all, since he is so talented (even if it is that bad if some non-super-talent did it). In other words, the evil of the deed itself is relative depending on who is doing it.

How many other publicly-known convicted rapists, animal killers, and others guilty of similarly heinous offenses would be rehired in their pre-conviction professions? There are many other people out there who did their crimes, served their time, and have no one giving them that "second chance."

I have to say I am EXTREMELY disappointed in President Obama because of this.

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Originally Posted by phesina

It seems to me that big-time sports superstars (and probably superstars in other big-time public worlds) get a free and easy pass on things like this. Just look at convicted-rapist-who-served-his-time Kobe Bryant. Even if they did these nasty things, they still can bring in so much money for themselves and those who give them that "second chance."

What this does is give a loud statement to the whole world that what that person did is really not that bad after all, when he is so talented (even if it is that bad if some non-super-talent did it).

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KB was never convicted, he settled out of court and the charges were dropped when the woman refused to testify in the case.

It does suck when people get to walk on any kind of criminal case.

He also signed a huge contract -about 130 million - to endorse a product. He also got back some of his endorsement contracts after he was 'cleared', I don't like KB either but it can't denied that both of the idiots are talented beyond their 'smartness'

I am not making a case for them, nor am I praising them-it's just a fact that they are good at what they do. They do not deserve any special treatment in the real world, but I do find the people that wear the jerseys and make it an extra effort to hold them in the same esteem they had before they screwed up, to be just as stupid as their 'heroes' are.

I don't care whether he plays ball or collects garbage, but he should
never ever own another dog, or any other animal for the rest of his life.

After reading about his recorded interview where he expressed a desire
to have another dog, I just about got sick to my stomach.:(:( He said
his kids were asking why they couldn't get a dog and he felt bad for them.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Maybe he should tell his children the real reason why they can't have a dog.:mad:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...n-a-dog-again/