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You know, it seems that a large chunk of people are against BSL when it's in regards to Pit Bulls, but they are more supportive, or more understanding of it when it comes to Labs, Goldens, and other breeds. This really, really bugs me. First of all, the statistics are never accurate, they're more Labs in the world therefore, naturally statistics would show that there is more dog attacks coming from them. Of course they're overbred and such, but you do need to keep the population stuff in mind.
Exactly Lindsey. Labs are currently the #1 most popular breed in the U.S. (at least last time I checked, with goldens close behind). This means:Quote:
Originally Posted by CagneyDog
* A huge market for puppymills and BYBs.
* LOTS of uneducated people in regards to a dog's needs, much less doing breed-specific research, because labs are so popular and supposed to be "perfect."
Those two things combined are recipes for disaster. So yes of course labs will be high on the bite list, high on the surrender list to shelters, high on the list of dogs with behavioral problems, health problems, and so on.
I strongly believe no breed is predisposed towards behavioral problems simply because of its breed alone. The more popular a breed is, the more that breed is likely to be subjected to abuse and poor conditions.
Breeds like rotties and pits are often more abused breeds because of the types of people that are attracted to them. Labs and goldens on the other hand attract a lot of people getting a dog "for the kids" which can be just as bad in some ways.
Anyway.. enough rambling by me for now!
What about the millions of wonderfully adjusted family pets? The ones who save people? Whatever happened to Innocent until proven guilty?Quote:
Originally Posted by Love That Collie
And also, whatever breeds are on the top 5 breeds list tend to be more "dangerous" because of people buying them on looks, not socializing them, and buying them from puppymills and unhealthy dogs.
Well as on old woman I can name off several other breeds ruined for the same reson Popularity
St Bernards (early 70s and again Beethoven)
Cocker Spaniels
Dobermans (Magnum PI)
Toy Poodles (too cute for their own good)
Chihuaha (see above)
GSD ( hearth home and kid dog )
Jack Russells (Frasier)
Staffies (drug trade)
Greyhounds (yes racing is an issue but the huge outcry produced huge amounts BYB)
Maltese (see poodle)
Shiz-zu (see poodle)
The dogs aren't to blame, We are. I wont even go into the husky phenomenon due to the movie 8 below, People don't think they assume (yes I forgot collies thanks poor Lassie) that all dogs of that breed will be THAT dog. Sad but true.
I'm glad that not many people want Belgians. The people that own Belgians are alo usually fully admittant of the breed's faults too, so that not every Joe Blow is going to go out and buy one. Belgians don't need BYBs, they are messed up coming from reputable breeders lol, and they certainly don't need to be popular. It's what I want to improve, and at the same time, I'm not just going to be giving these dogs to people who I don't trust to know what they are doing, because I don't want them to end up being in the media like pitties. If there were more of them, they would be. I think that of all the breeds with BSLs, the Belgian is the one that "deserves" it most. And it doesn't kill me to say it either, I know my breed is screwed up. Visa's breeder is considering switching from Belgians back to goldens.
I felt the most of it with my rescued unilateral fear biter DalmatiAn who happened to have the worst separation anxiety ever. I think she came from the 102 DamatiAns craze. I had people just come up to me at the park and state in a knowledgable voice, "These dogs get nippy around childern, they're really unstable." and then walk away! Maybe because I was at a park with her but for god's sake don't touch her without asking after you told me about my own dog!
Dals are now not even in the top 50, no one wants them anymore, thank GOD (even though that's just a saying to me you don't know how happy I am about that)
LOL@Suki kind of similar to when people tell me I should retrain Goofy (cocker) as she piddles when frightened? because Lady (another Disney screw up) LOVED people. Goofy does too after she makes the first move but just reaching at her scared her to peeing (usually on my shoe) :rolleyes:
Here is my list of bites, attacks, chased (would have attacked if I didn't run), etc....
BC - 6 stitches.. No attack only a single bite. Dog was not PTS, no reason to.
Shar Pi (sp) - 2 got loose & tried to take on all of us at the youth club.. we all had to run inside & close the door.
Collie - Charged me while snarling & showing teeth! I ran like hell.. it was older so it couldn't catch up.
American Pit Bull Terrier - Bit my arm too hard & left huge bruses. It was a accident & when I yelled ouch, I swore the dog was crying he felt so bad.
2 Goldens - Dogs from hell they were. Nearly ripped both my legs off.. luckly they had both my shoes, but they kept thrashing, pulling & trying to go different ways & crossing eachother.. NOT FUN.. this is why I'm scared of them, yes I'll cross the street, because all I can think about are the 2 that attacked me. I have the right to be scared of them! But the BSL is still BS.
Goldens (too many to count & diff times) - All came charging while snarling & showing teeth.. All got a foot to the head & that scared them off.
Jack Russel (2 times same dog)- first he tried to take me on & became a foot ball (I have a fear of charging & snarling dogs & will hurt if not kill them).. second time he tried to attack the OLD wobbly dog I was walking, once again he became a football & he lucky he didn't come back, I was angry & in defence mode to have kill it.
Labs (too many to count) - just bites, nothing major, just hurt like hell.
2 GSD - Charged from behind a house, snarling.. I nearly wet myself.. I scooped up the 60p dog I was walking, she was frozen solid in fear & I ran!!!!
Newfy - Bit my hand a couple times when I went to pet him. I saw this dog all the time & always patted him. Turns out the owners son moved back in & had beated poor boots, so he was scared I was going to hurt him so he bit me. Don't blame him really.
With all this I still don't hate any breed of dog.. Sure I "personally" fear Goldens & wont pet them (unless I have to), but there shouldn't be a BLS on them. The owners of the above just need a kick in the pants & banned from owning dogs.
Heres something about Pit Bulls.. A few weeks ago my landlady was attacked by her boyfriend here in the house. Cyrus (AST) was here & guess what he did?? just guess?? He put his tail between his legs & ran away. He hid by my apt doors in the basement all day (I wasn't home)...
Cyrus also goes to the dog park all the time. Hes wonderfull there & people just love him. Last time I went (it was my first really lol) we brought him into the agility section as no one was in there.. Once we went in there many people followed us. We didn't know them, but they wanted to know more about Cyrus, cause he was a pit bull & was having a blast. They were also very upset that Cyrus had to try to play fetch with a Muzzle on.. stupid BSL laws! More people came in just to watch Cyrus go over the HUGE wall (A shaped).. I would toss the ball over it & He would FLY over it!! It was awesome to watch & even funnier when he ran to the top & was looking down at everyone lol silly boy...
Dear young Wolfsoul you are wrong fighting IS something that can be bred IF the particular pair have that tendency. And yes, Pits are terriers with the strength that unlike a Jack Russell does not possess so with the tendency to hang on for dear life just like you said, "if they let go of that bull they are dead". That's what THEY were bred for and they are, the majority, in the wrong hands now and this is being perpetuated by all the wrong people.
And I did not say that "mixing" 5 generations of good can make an aggressive litter. And yes, you most certainly CAN breed aggressiveness, that's why ethical breeders in any breed will not breed a certain dog to another.
The fear and outlawing of this breed did not just come out of thin air for no apparent reason and one does not have to solely depend on "statistics". The culmination of police reports, hospital records, court filings and insurance claims bear this out and those are not stats they are in black and white and sometimes with color pictures. Why on earth does anyone think this breed is on the vicious dog list? It's sure as heck not because society just picked them out of thin air for no reason. And until society helps clean up this breed and bring up to standard it will not change, the laws will only get harsher for all who love this breed and want the best for it. Nobody at the time said, "Gee, I think we should just start picking on the Pit Bull breed now we don't have anything better to do." It's not because they haven't earned the reputation through bad breeding and falling into the hands of the wrong people. It is a problem and the sooner people stop feeling sorry for them and saying "there, there, poor little misunderstood thing," and start doing something about it the better it will be.
And I never said that ALL were vicious........the majority of them were badly bred and do have that tendency. And the people on these forums who own or even knows someone who owns one are but a tiny, tiny, tiny, percentage of owners in this country. No body singled out this breed arbitrarily.
Its not "most" pit Bulls that are aggressive it is only a FEW that are aggressive! Its because of the amount of damage 1 pit bull can do is what makes it into the media & spun out of control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Love That Collie
Does anyone remember the pomeranian (sp) that attacked & killed a baby?
THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *
The study covers 431 documented human fatalities from a dog attack.
Location of Attack
25% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by chained dogs
25% resulted from dogs loose in their yard
23% occurred inside the home
17% resulted from attacks by dogs roaming off their property
10% involved leashed dogs or miscellaneous circumstances
Number of Dogs
68% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by a single dog
32% was the result of a multiple dog attack
Victim Profile
79% of all fatal attacks were on children under the age of 12
12% of the victims were the elderly, aged 65 - 94
9% of the victims were 13 - 64 years old
The age group with the highest number of fatalities were children under the age of 1 year old; accounting for 19% of the deaths due to dog attack. Over 95% of these fatalities occurred when an infant was left unsupervised with a dog(s).
The age group with the second-highest number of fatalities were 2-year-olds; accounting for 11% of the fatalities due to dog attack. Over 87% of these fatalities occurred when the 2-year-old child was left unsupervised with a dog(s) or the child wandered off to the location of the dog(s).
Boys aged 1 - 12 years old were 2.5 times more likely to be the victim of a fatal dog attack than girls of the same age.
Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).
Reproductive Status of Dogs
Overwhelmingly, the dogs involved in fatal dog attacks were unaltered males.
From 2000-2001 there were 41 fatal dog attacks. Of these, 28 were attacks by a single dog and 13 fatalities were caused by multiple dogs.
Of the 28 single dogs responsible for a fatal attack between 2000-2001;
26 were males and 2 were females. Of the 26 males, 21 were found to be intact (the reproductive status of the remaining 5 males dogs could not be determined).
States with the Most Fatalities - 1965-2001
California, 47; Texas, 32; Alaska, 26; Florida, 22; New York, 19; Michigan, 18; Illinois, 18; North Carolina, 17; Georgia, 16.
While at times informative, statistics on fatal dog attacks can also be misleading. For example, a number of cases were a Pit Bull, Rottweiler or GSD were counted as causing a human fatality were in reality the direct result of gross human negligence or criminal intent (i.e. discarding a newborn in the yard where the dogs were kept, or cases of extremely emaciated animals, or cases were the dog was ordered or encouraged to attack the victim).
This study was conducted not to determine which breeds of dogs caused fatalities, but rather to examine the circumstances and events that precipitated an attack. Knowing how many Pit Bulls or Rottweilers caused a human fatality has little applicable value, only when examining each case individually can we hope to gain insight into the HUMAN and CANINE behaviors that contributed to these tragic events.
The preceding information and statistics are excerpts from the book:
* "FATAL DOG ATTACKS: The Stories Behind the Statistics", by Karen Delise
The last paragraph is rather important.
You will not breed fighters, you will breed dogs with a tendency towards aggression, and that can be helped with training. Aggression comes in many forms and you can not breed one specific kind --- there is dog aggression, people aggression, food aggression, etc. The only one you can really pass down is fear aggression because that is a whole other issue (shyness) altogether. But just because two dogs fight does not mean that they will breed fighters. You can breed a tendency towards aggression, yes, but fighting pit bulls fight because of the way they are brought up in an environment. At a young age they will push the puppies together, bashing their bodies together until they learn that other dogs mean pain. They will feed them one small portion of food so that the entire litter learns that other puppies are rivals. Then they are taken away from other dogs altogether at a very young age so that they lack socialisation. Most of them are starved, beaten, lack health care, and do not live past a certain age. Those who try to buy random dogs for fighting are not experienced enough in the "sport" to know that fighting is not just something that any dog can do. Genetics are not enough -- it is instilled in the dog since birth. Yes, a tendency towards aggression can be bred, but fighting is environmental.Quote:
Originally Posted by Love That Collie
*claps hands*Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
10 Most Common Biters:
This list has some surprises. Allred says that in nature, dogs one through seven can be friendly, but they are intolerant and snap when handled roughly, startled, or pushed around. German Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Pit Bulls are actually much less inclined to bite, but their powerful bites lead to great injuries and are reported more often.
Chow Chow
Shih Tzu
Lhaso Apso
Toy Terrier
Dachshund
Maltese
Cocker Spaniel
German Shepherd
Rottweiler
Pit Bull
10 Most Intelligent Breeds:
Border Collie
Poodle
German Shepherd
Doberman Pinscher
Golden Retriever
Shetland Sheepdog
Labrador Retriever
Papillion
Rottweiller
Australian Cattle Dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
I completely agree! i have the same problem at my groomin shop. I get attacked/bitten by more goldens and labs then any other dog. And people wonder why i dislike and wont even go near one unless i HAVE to!!!