The children be darned! Tobacco taxes.

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Originally Posted by Karen

Your post that I quoted just above could be seen as doing just that.

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Precisely! Thank you!

And my post about agreeing with blue and his retort in post #68, is my view and opinion regarding Veterans Benefits. Nothing more - nothing less.

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Originally Posted by Karen

Sara - I knew someone who grew up, since the age of four, in Massachusetts. Attended publics schools in a town known for its good school system. Just didn't much care about any of it. As a 16-year-old, she could not accurately identify the six New England states (Psst, hint - we live in one. Hint 2 - New York isn't one of them.) Yet now that she has matured, she is a paralegal and attending law school - like many things, education only works if you try, which after high school, she decided to do.

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All excellent points you make Karen. However, I bet even your New Englander friend knew that California is not spelled Mexifornia. Or anything CLOSE to that.

So for the record...I do not consider unemployment to be a handout...I do not consider workers' comp to be a handout...I do not consider veteran benefits to be a handout. All systems set up to protect the citizens of this country.

So do you think worker comp and unemployment are handouts?

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

All excellent points you make Karen. However, I bet even your New Englander friend knew that California is not spelled Mexifornia. Or anything CLOSE to that.

So for the record...I do not consider unemployment to be a handout...I do not consider workers' comp to be a handout...I do not consider veteran benefits to be a handout. All systems set up to protect the citizens of this country.

So do you think worker comp and unemployment are handouts?

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No, I don't.

I doubt the friend I mention would have known that California is a state. She probably thought at the time at Hollywood or Los Angeles was a state, and California was something else.

Are you not familiar with the book "Mexifornia?" It was quite a sensation a couple years ago ... with a big silhouette of California on the cover.

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Originally Posted by Karen

It is easy, in quickly reading posts, to jump to contusions.

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Whew, let's hope we never all get trapped in a small room while
discussing opinions.:D

Sorry Karen, just kidding.:)

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Originally Posted by Cataholic

How so? I am not talking about people that take advantage of either program. I am talking about the hard working individual, maybe they have worked 30 years at a low paying job, paying into the benenfit program, and all of a sudden, find them selves out of a job, unable to make ends meet. And, they apply for welfare. They are "entitled" to it, have paid for it, and "deserve" it. Does that make them less of a person, simply because they didn't serve their country?

Benefits are benefits are benefits. No one is better or worse, as a person, because of what they do for a living. And, none of this should be taken as a slight against the enlisted men and women (or former enlisted...).

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I hear ya. I do. The example you provide is what the programs should be for. Limited and for extreme cases... A last resort if you will.

My work takes me to some public housing communities. The things I see there would make anybodies blood just boil. Lots of cars with "bling". Most of the residents are there, all day... hanging out and smoking. Did ALL of these people earn the right to live on our dime?

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

But the point being made... was...if you are going to say that you will not take money from the government because that makes you "a slave" that should be any money...not just money you feel justified in taking.

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Good point. I do understand what you are saying. It got me to thinking... LOL (Yikes)


If in the process of recieving my VA benefits, the VA decided that they could tell me how to live or what I could do to my home, I would not take it. With some programs, most noteably the recent bailouts, taking that taxpayer money makes you subject to the whims of government. So accept public benefits at your own peril I reckon.

Further, while the Libertarian in me has issues with any kind of welfare, the human being (and Christian) in me understands the need for it. But it should be in the most extreme cases and temporary. Ben Franklin said, (paraphrasing) "poverty should be uncomfortable as to motivate people to get out of it." We are good hearted people, for the most part, in this country. It is in our nature to help out those in need. That is a wonderful thing. But we should never allow people to become DEPENDANT on public programs to survive. Sadly, way too many politicians use that very dependance to their advantage to keep the dependant voting for them.

Anybody ever wonder how after having spent literally TRILLIONS of dollars on the "war on poverty", nothing has changed or even gotten worse?

This is a good discussion, for the most part. I hope we can keep looking each other in the eye, rather than down on each other.

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Originally Posted by Karen

.

Are you not familiar with the book "Mexifornia?" It was quite a sensation a couple years ago ... with a big silhouette of California on the cover.

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No, I don't. As you know, I am an accidental California resident.

But I consider the intent of the poster who used that mispelling of the state to have been to make a racist statement. And not his first. And apropo of nothing. Except an intent to insult.

So Karen, what the the sensation this book created? You've got me curious. Everything I found when I googled Mexifornia is quite distasteful.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

No, I don't. As you know, I am an accidental California resident.

But I consider the intent of the poster who used that mispelling of the state to have been to make a racist statement. And not his first. And apropo of nothing. Except an intent to insult.

So Karen, what the the sensation this book created? You've got me curious. Everything I found when I googled Mexifornia is quite distasteful.

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Hmm, I think I may either have the book around in a box somewhere, or have sent it forward to Richard. It was a fairly politically inflammatory book about Hispanic immigrants - legal and otherwise - taking over California. If I remember correctly it was a "Ahhh, panic! Close the borders and make everyone speak English all the time" kind of book ... but it has been a while since I had it in my hands.

Now the term is used to kind of make fun of that attitude ...

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Originally Posted by Karen

Now the term is used to kind of make fun of that attitude ...

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Really? How odd I have lived in California for 4.5 years and never heard it used -- truthfully in any way until thread.

Karen, is that what you think the poster, who alternatively spelled California as Kafornia or some such, was doing? Making fun of the hysteria over immigrants from Mexico and not a derogatory statement about Mexican immigrants?

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Really? How odd I have lived in California for 4.5 years and never heard it used -- truthfully in any way until thread.

Karen, is that what you think the poster, who alternatively spelled California as Kafornia or some such, was doing? Making fun of the hysteria over immigrants from Mexico and not a derogatory statement about Mexican immigrants?

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Well... he DID make mention of the book so that leads me to believe he was referring to it and the hysteria.

For the record I have never heard of the book until now so I googled it... ah where would we be without google lol

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Originally Posted by sparks19

Well... he DID make mention of the book so that leads me to believe he was referring to it and the hysteria.

For the record I have never heard of the book until now so I googled it... ah where would we be without google lol

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Yes, I feel so much better now that I understand blue was not supporting the premise of that book but was using it this way...

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Now the term is used to kind of make fun of that attitude

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So...he was making fun of people who complain about too many Latin American immigrants in California.

That is what you are saying...right?

And can you help with this reference...

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Kalifornians

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? Perhaps it is another well-known event I missed?

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Yes, I feel so much better now that I understand blue was not supporting the premise of that book but was using it this way...



So...he was making fun of people who complain about too many Latin American immigrants in California.

That is what you are saying...right?

And can you help with this reference...? Perhaps it is another well-known event I missed?

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I don't know... perhaps he was copying richard. I don't know. I'm not into analyzing hidden meanings in posts :) I just noticed he made mention of the book so I figured that's what he was referring to.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ....................

Never Ending Story. I liked the movie much better! :eek:

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Originally Posted by pomtzu

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ....................

Never Ending Story. I liked the movie much better! :eek:

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Haven't seen that movie in AGES. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

DO IT IN PM'S

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How ridiculous, How could I possibly PMS?:D


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Let me educate (as if I could teach anyone anything!) the masses.

It Cah Lee Fuh Nee Ah, Californication or the Land of the Easily Amused.

I have a prob with all my compadres y familia que estan aqui contra las leyes.....But until I run for office, I don't hold much hope from anything getting done.


One thing that constantly amazes me is the the the desire for 'equal rights' for illegal aliens.

For some people it's a PITA and the laws need to be enforced, until you need to have your lawn pulled or some construction work done and you are too effing cheap to get a contractor.

So you drive over to Home Depot and pick up a few guys, pay them 10 bucks and hour and then panic when it comes to getting them lunch -proper etiquette deems that you serve drinks and toss out a few sandwiches- Don't do the "I'll get them some Taco Bell!" That is more insulting to us becuase we use real carne in our food....not some soy based BS that has never seen the inside of an abbatoir.


As far as the spelling of Our Great State, who really cares? We are the butt of many jokes, we have learned to roll with it. We are too busy texting and tanning.

In the last page of posts I have been named as a part to this thread.
Yeah, I'm a American of Mex descent, Yes I have had relatives who's residence here is suspect (And I say to them, get legal! You cause too many problems when the man picks you up and the family freaks out!)

As far as the Kalifornia mention-Also a movie with that brat pack actor----
Books are great! Ray Bradbury made money off of burning them and in a pinch you can use them as firestarter or Toilet paper in a pinch.:confused:

Oh, Karen.

I do have to correct you. Hollywood and Lost Angeles are states........Of mind-it's one big goofy jumble of crazy people.......:D:eek:


Now, All of you get off my cloud and let me go back to my novelas, tortillas Y carnitas.


I love you all!

Some people use the K to reference a communist state, the Communist State of Kalifornia. The movie is pretty good as well.

For Mexifornia to be racist, Mexican, as in a resident of Mexico, would have to be a race. Have you never met a blond hair blue eyed Mexican? Next your going to tell me there are no black Mexicans. And before you try, I do not hate Mexicans or anybody else because of their country of origin.

WC and UE as stated by others are not handouts regaurdless of who, employee or the employer, pays. They are earned benifit of employment.

Back to the topic...

In an effort to fund a childrens insurance program on the backs of smokers, the children are going to be the big losers here. People are going to quit and the black market sales of tobacco products are going to jump dramaticaly, both of which will decrease tax revenue.

I read today in the new issue of TIME Magazine that the first tax on cigarettes was in 1864.

I guess we'll have to blame it on Abraham Lincoln...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

No. We blame the House of Congress of 1864, the POTUS dosent write tax laws.:rolleyes: Now if you can find Lincoln ran on a no new taxes campaign you might be onto something.

Did TIME restrict their research to cigarette taxes? The first tax on tobacco was in 1794, it "was enacted, modified, suspended and repealed, with small, if any, effect upon federal revenues".

The next tax was in 1862 levied on cigars, and goes from there.

The tax increase now isnt restricted to cigarettes, its all tobacco products.

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Originally Posted by blue

No. We blame the House of Congress of 1864, the POTUS dosent write tax laws.:rolleyes: Now if you can find Lincoln ran on a no new taxes campaign you might be onto something.

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:cool:

Nice work Dan. Magnificent use of the historical method.

<golf clap>

Not bad for somebody who did not take use of your public education. ;)

I'd think a history text is a better reference than Time. But that's just me.