"One nation UNDER GOD" banned?

Pam, I respect your opinion. There are certainly undeniable problems with schools. I personally don't think that lack a prayer is to blame, but I don't have any other answers, so that is certainly a valid point of view. I do wonder, though, in your plan, what would you have students like Popcornbird, or a Jewish student or a non-religious child or Pagan, or Buddhist.. what would they do during a Christian class prayer?
And assuming the answer is to simply not participate, don't you think that would create alienation and anxiety for those students. Self-conciousness resulting in anger and, potentially, the same violent situations schools currently suffer from? Certainly I have no expertise in this subject, but the biggest change I've seen in schools since I was there, is the lack of authority to discipline given to teachers and administrators.

Again, I don't presume to know the answers, I'm just asking.

Thanks 2kitties. :)

I just remembered something my sociology teacher told us...

At the same time of year that ice cream consumption goes up, so does the rate of drowning. Does this mean that eating ice cream causes more people to drown? No, there's another factor there. ^_^

enough is enough...if church and state are to not be involved lets just get rid of the UNDER GOD and take out god related things on money. It wouldn't bother me personally anyway what they do it. But to stop wasteing time and money of our government just get it done now. Who are these people that take such unimportant things and make them into a 7 month long dispute. Are we all just so botherd by it we can't stand it anymore? I am in highschool now and I never say the pledge I don't see the sense in it.. Its a flag not a shrine. now Education and religion should not be involved..its like mixing water and oil it doesn't...religion is about fairy tales that never happened and is ultimatly a lie Education on the other hand teaches the real and true. now about how prayers in school wouldn't stop crap. Just because way back when u were school u didn't have school shootings and drugs etc. Doesn't mean it was beacause of prayers. I wouldn't doubt if just as many if not more religious people commit crimes as athesists. Religion is not a factor as it once was since the people with sense shot that birdy down. Thousands of people died beacuse of fighting over religion. So how would that help in schools? School shootings happen because of poor parenting and the media. I don't see how takin out UNDER GOD would offened religious people anyways. If anything I think they would want it since it shows were a religious neutral country. Bush = how my school has less money and a higher level of education for which we must now reach. And Bush even lied about how his plan worked so good in his state.. yeah they had a hudge amount of drop outs but lied on the books so it seemed so perfact. oh yes the toothfairy is very real =p

yikes ziron. A little bitter?

I'm an atheist and I really wouldn't care much one way or another except that people who are really religious seem to want to stick their views on me. I believe that the in god we trust should be taken off because well...it's meaning less to ALOT of different people.

Church and State do need to be seperated but it isn't happening because of people like Bush. The whole thing with Gay marriage, that is a religious view being forced upon the rest of us. I don't believe that is right...and the whole thing about "sanctity of marriage" yea...don't pull that crap...look at the divorce rate...there is no sanctity.

Things like that really make me sad and upset, I don't like the people who are religious trying to make me think they way they think just because they feel they have the better idea.

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Originally posted by 2kitties
yikes ziron. A little bitter?

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I was going to comment on this tirade a bit too! Good grief, you came on strong, very quickly, Ziron! You're entitled to your opinion too, though, and you sure gave it.

As long as there is a Pledge of Allegiance, I will always say "One Nation Under God", regardless of what they tell me I am supposed to say.

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Originally posted by WolfChan


At the same time of year that ice cream consumption goes up, so does the rate of drowning. Does this mean that eating ice cream causes more people to drown? No, there's another factor there. ^_^

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Yes,

You should wait 15 minutes after you eat before swimming.

Actually,

Your body shunts more blood to your stomach, to aid in digestion, right after you eat- so, you are more vulnerable to your muscles cramping due to lack of blood....

Ice cream, swimming?? Summer! Heat!



;)

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Originally posted by ziron
religion is about fairy tales that never happened and is ultimatly a lie Education on the other hand teaches the real and true.

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Just because you don't believe it, why should they take it from the other people who do? What are we if we aren't a nation 'under god'? A nation under Bush? Or any other person who steps in every four-eight years? Hardly. The phrase 'under god' really isn't hurting anyone. You are not forced to say it, stay seated if you feel it is just a flag. You can opt out from saying it if you disagree with it. But if they take it out, what do the people who do the people who beleive have?

The people who believe are left with prayer, church and their relationship with their God or diety.

What of the "people who believe that women shouldn't make equal wage" or the "people who believe" blacks should be satisfied with separate but equal. Or "people who believe" a person's religion should be personal.

There are "people who believe" alot of things. That's why those beliefs need to remain neutral in the government of a FREE nation.

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Originally posted by CamCamPup33
Just because you don't believe it, why should they take it from the other people who do? What are we if we aren't a nation 'under god'? A nation under Bush? Or any other person who steps in every four-eight years? Hardly. The phrase 'under god' really isn't hurting anyone. You are not forced to say it, stay seated if you feel it is just a flag. You can opt out from saying it if you disagree with it. But if they take it out, what do the people who do the people who beleive have?

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They aren't taking anything away from anyone, you can still believe it while it isn't written in and if all you have with your god is just a saying in our government then you should reconsider everything you believe in.

We aren't a nation under god so we shouldn't say that...we should be a nation united but silly stuff like this is dividing us. We are a "Nation of the people" at least I think should be said.

ziron....I hate to break it to you, but people who proudly say the Pledge are pledging their patriotism to our country NOT "just" the flag. A flag is not just a piece of cloth...it is what it represents. I would hope that every person in the world would feel that way about their flag. If you have such a problem with it, when it's said, remain seated, but don't complain when people say something about it....it's your choice, and you should deal with the consequences. No one is saying that the flag is a shrine. Just be glad that that "just a flag" and what it represents allows you to say the things you did without fear of retribution.

Like I said before, this country was founded on the idea of democracy, where majority rules....whatever the majority decides (within the bounds of the law....we wouldn't want anarchy! lol) should be what goes. If the majority of people want "under God" left in the Pledge, then it should stay...if the majority want it out...then it should revert back to its original text.

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Originally posted by mugsy
Like I said before, this country was founded on the idea of democracy, where majority rules....whatever the majority decides (within the bounds of the law....we wouldn't want anarchy! lol) should be what goes. If the majority of people want "under God" left in the Pledge, then it should stay...if the majority want it out...then it should revert back to its original text.

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Mugsy, I have to respectfully disagree with this part of your post (although I'm totally on board with the first half!)
Religious people in general are the majority. Christian, I think, are the majority in the US. So, naturally, if a vote were held, the majority would be Christian.
Non-religious people are the Minority and can't be held to a vote for that reason.
Blacks are a minority- so does that mean we shouldn't have to represent their interests? Jews? Chinese? Hispanics?
We have to use our Constitution, our compassion, our loyalty to freedom to make sure the voice of even the small minorities is heard in this country.
So, in some cases, Majority Rules just doesn't cut it.

were under the sky.... and I don't mind if people are religious..I don't want to cut them down any but have those people stop coming after the rest of us
By not saying under god will religious people feel cheated? Religious people can still go to church and pray etc Its not like were tryin to stop religion. But for state and church speration to be true it would have to take it out again I say I couldn't care wut happens
However if u think all those stories in your religion are true u are fooling yourself the idea of a God is to give people answers to things we can't ,give laws based on some persons values and to give people hope. Which is how u make an army of robots.

I am not bitter about any of it really. Just like to get my idea out their.

Yeah I don't hold back I am ficious lol

I don't complain.. and I do remian seated. If speakin what I feel is complaining then everyone is complaining. And wuts wrong with complaining.. without it we would all still be in caves. Cuz would be the guy saying don't complain! were fine here in a cave. thats like saying don't complain to a slave.And yes I know wut it stands for. But I don't see how I can be proud of a nation that attacks a country for no good reason.

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Originally posted by ziron
However if u think all those stories in your religion are true u are fooling yourself the idea of a God is to give people answers to things we can't ,give laws based on some persons values and to give people hope. Which is how u make an army of robots.

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Interestingly, the rest of us have managed to make arguments for and against this issue without belittling anyone's beliefs. It isn't your place or anyone else's to make statements like this. Arguements should stand on their own merit and not need hatefulness.

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Originally posted by mugsy
I certainly didn't see teen pregnancy like it is now....in 1990, I had 3 EIGHTH graders who were pregnant in one year....when I was in school....I knew 2 the entire time I was in high school....

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I was out of school for 3 years before I even SAW a pregnant woman!!!

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One problem with 'freedom of speech' is that instead of bucking up and accepting things that won't hurt us as 'part of life', We encourage everyone around us to whine, sue and go ballistic.

There are quite a few things I do not like on the planet. They sure as heck won't kill me and as long as they don't hit me in the head or REALLY impact my quality of life, I can live with them.


Pledges with "god" in them and dollar bills with "god' on them don't impact me in the least..

I get the same three tacos for a dollar, Trusting god or not. And I get the same feeling pledging my allegiance, under, above, or without god.

Sticks and stones will break my bones,
But what does it say about me when I freak out over the word 'god'??;)