Haw haw

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Originally Posted by Bonny

There is no real freedom of speech it is all politcal. It is about who you know & what they can do for you in this country. Freedom of Speech has lost its' real meaning in the USA.

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Its probably off topic, but what do you think it's real meaning is/was? As I see it, the primary purpose of the speech clause in the 1st Amendment, per the founders, not my words, was to protect 'offensive' political speech. Last I checked, A LOT of people exercise that right and do not go to jail. Even when lies are used.. On all sides.

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Pucky, The dumb things you did in the military endangered everyone that was a part of your unit. You are not the ONLY ONE that has scares mental or physical that has been off to war & lived to come home to see another day. Metals have the most meaning to those who wear them & they know what they have been through to receive/earn them. The rest of us really don't care about metals but the mental & physical care of each & everyone that serves in the military should be treated fairly that we can agree on.

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Bonny... How do you have any idea as to what I did or what happened? I kindly ask you to stop making assumptions. I am really trying to be fair here.

Did I ever say I am the ONLY one? Where are you seeing this?

But yes, we can absolutley agree that the mental and physical care a vet recieves should not have anything to do with any particular medal they are awarded.


- Night all. LOL

Pucky, You said yourself you did some stupid things while you were in the military. You use the word assumptions a lot when someone has you cornered. Your idea of fairness is what you want us to hear from you but not what you want to hear from us. You just don't get it or is just me? Gaw Night to you too Pucky & I am not laughing.

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Pucky, You said yourself you did some stupid things while you were in the military.

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We ALL do stupid things in the military. Sometimes they are things we're ordered to do, sometimes they are things we do to ourselves, and sometimes they're things done in reaction to things others do to us.

Where I think you're missing the point is that what Puck and I will both refer to as stupid things aren't stupid. It's military humor.

There are four parts to a message:

The sender

The recipient

The message

The medium

If the sender and recipient don't speak the same language, the message is garbled.

If the medium restricts portions of the message (as text on a message board certainly does) content is lost.

Servicemembers, former and present, speak the same lingo, and have similar experiences. There's a disconnect in the language that just can't be overcome at times if you haven't been there.

Sorry Bonny, but I think Puck gets it better then most of us.

Puck, danger close sucks.......even if it's on a range.

But, yeah, a little canister might be in order. (oops, we don't have that for 155s anymore.)

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Originally Posted by Bonny

Pucky, You said yourself you did some stupid things while you were in the military. You use the word assumptions a lot when someone has you cornered. Your idea of fairness is what you want us to hear from you but not what you want to hear from us. You just don't get it or is just me? Gaw Night to you too Pucky & I am not laughing.

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I'm trying to relax for bed and Tanya shows me this. :cool:

Like LH said, we all do dumb things. I was young, dumb and full of.... I learned real fast. Just like soldiers throughout history have. Would you prefer I lie about it?

Cornered? I use the word assumption because that is exactly what you are doing Bonny. People who are cornered often respond to questions with non answers, or other questions. Which is it that you and others are doing here? I have answered all of your questions. How about you return the favor? Tell me what I have said that makes you feel the way you do about me? You have accused me of thinking I am better than everyone else AND that I am playing the victim. What have I said that makes you think that? Because neither is true.

My idea of fairness is a open and honest discussion, back and forth you know? So far, all I have gotten here are baseless personal attacks and whatever it is you are trying to say. I have read what you said and commented on it.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

If the sender and recipient don't speak the same language, the message is garbled.

If the medium restricts portions of the message (as text on a message board certainly does) content is lost.

Servicemembers, former and present, speak the same lingo, and have similar experiences. There's a disconnect in the language that just can't be overcome at times if you haven't been there.

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Then why don't you guys take this talk to a medium that doesn't restrict portions of your message?


Where there is no disconnect?

Where your message isn't garbled?

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Then why don't you guys take this talk to a medium that doesn't restrict portions of your message?


Where there is no disconnect?

Where your message isn't garbled?

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Quoted before the edit or delete.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

Puck, danger close sucks.......even if it's on a range.

But, yeah, a little canister might be in order. (oops, we don't have that for 155s anymore.)

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Especially when it's on the range. Recall how I saw a PA Guard FA Battery nearly destroy the tank range tower at Drum?

But there IS a cannister round for the 120mm tank gun now. :cool: It ain't your daddie's shotgun for sure.

yes "military stupid" and "civilian stupid" are two VERY different things

to civilians... those who have been awarded the medal of honor have done something heroic

In the military if you are awarded that medal it's because you've done something stupid and 9 times out of 10 you aren't awarded that medal and live to see it... BUT that doesn't mean they weren't heroic. They just did something "stupid" that risked their own life and COULD have risked the life of others but they acted in the heat of the moment and did what they thought was best at that time with SPLIT seconds to make a decision.

As someone else said it's easy to sit on your a$$ behind a computer and beat the drums while you are sipping a beer... it's also SO easy to sit behind a computer and talk about what is and isn't stupid for military people in combat and how that does or does not affect their unit.

MIlitary "stupid" is not what most civilians would see as "stupid" it's usually seen as the opposite. luckily all of us sitting behind computers have infinite minutes to sit here and decide what we would have done in such a situation. not so easy when you have mere seconds.

just saying

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Then why don't you guys take this talk to a medium that doesn't restrict portions of your message?


Where there is no disconnect?

Where your message isn't garbled?

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The disconnect is largely created by the difference between "soldier talk" and the language the rest of the populace of the US speaks.

The subject was brought up on this forum, and WAS being discussed in a civil manner................

When soldiers talk about doing stupid things, it has a different meaning.

"Military stupid" takes alot more balls then "Civillian stupid".

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Originally Posted by blue

"Military stupid" takes alot more balls then "Civillian stupid".

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Sometimes... More often, you are simply in a REAL hurry. The whole, "a bad decision NOW is almost always better than a good decision later", thing.

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LH. Maybe that is why we always hurry up and wait? So that when we actually get to go somewhere or do something, we hurry? LOL

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

Sometimes... More often, you are simply in a REAL hurry. The whole, "a bad decision NOW is almost always better than a good decision later", thing.

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After much thought and started responses all I can say is...

Yes.

From my own REAL hurry experiences, I would rather have Puck, LH and/or Wom helping with river rescues or forklift accidents. I think the rest of you would either panic or pass out when dealing with life or death decisions.

ETA: Some of yall would likely throw up a the sight of blood.

Blue,

The sight of blood doesn't bother me at all. Try brains all over your shoes trying to save a drunk, who drove his friend's motorcycle into a pole after drinking almost a whole bottle of Jack Daniels. Now THAT'S what gets my adrenaline pumping. Must be the EMT-I in me.

I apologize to anyone I might have upset. I guess I'm a little sensitive when people who DON'T deserve military benefits, try to take them away from the ones who do.

[QUOTE
We closed with and destroyed enemy forces using a combination of maneuver, firepower and shock effect. A lot of shock effect in my case. Bad guys who only have a rusty AK-47 tend to run away when the Cav shows up. :)[/QUOTE]

Hey Rambo.....spin us some more war'ys.
I love hearing about turkey shoots.

Mmmmmm....tanks and maneuver and shock n' awe and great firepower...you must have had a great time. Sounds like fun arcade stuff to me.

So did you have to put a dime in the slot to make this show work for you ???
Well you know, you did have that RIGHT.

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Originally Posted by lizbud

If he's so gung ho, re-up and let some poor soldier on his upteenth tour
go home to his wife & kids.

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Awwwwww.....that can't happen Lizzy. He'd probably win the war all by himself in a day or two. What would happen to all of those generals....they'd be out of a job.

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Originally Posted by Bonny

Combat in the line duty you get injured shuffling papers in an office when a bomb explodes in Kansas. You aren't up for a purple heart if you get injured then, but if you are in Afghanistan shuffling papers you would receive a purple heart if a bomb explodes & you are injured?

Can I give an example of a bar fight in Saigon during the Viet Nam War between Americans & Australians. The MP on duty gets jabbed with a knife & has to have a butterfly band-aid put on his tiny wound does that mean a purple heart? Should the MP be treated better than the paper pusher who loses an arm, & eye. Is it a political thing with the military?

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I bet the Aussies won. :)

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Originally Posted by blue

Sorry Bonny, but I think Puck gets it better then most of us.

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Ahhhhhh....the ever faithful cousin.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

Puck, danger close sucks.......even if it's on a range.

But, yeah, a little canister might be in order. (oops, we don't have that for 155s anymore.)

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No more canister ??? My mates in the 2/35th will be peed off.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Then why don't you guys take this talk to a medium that doesn't restrict portions of your message?


Where there is no disconnect?

Where your message isn't garbled?

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Who invited you ???
Haven't you got obituaries to read ???

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Originally Posted by wombat2u2004

Who invited you ???
Haven't you got obituaries to read ???

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Sorry....you have me mixed up with Grace. Her thread is here

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Originally Posted by wombat2u2004

Hey Rambo.....spin us some more war'ys.
I love hearing about turkey shoots.

Mmmmmm....tanks and maneuver and shock n' awe and great firepower...you must have had a great time. Sounds like fun arcade stuff to me.

So did you have to put a dime in the slot to make this show work for you ???
Well you know, you did have that RIGHT.

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Certainly, my experince was not that of a soldier who fought the infantry fight in a long protratced war. But am I supposed to apologize for that or something?

And no, it was anything but a good time. I am a little surprised a veteran such as youself would suggest such a thing.

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We closed with and destroyed enemy forces using a combination of maneuver, firepower and shock effect.

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Wom, that's pretty much the mission statement of the US Army Armored Corps.

As many times as I heard it at hood it got to be something of a joke, and that's how most treated it.

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Originally Posted by wombat2u2004

Ahhhhhh....the ever faithful cousin.

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No.

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Originally Posted by wombat2u2004

Who invited you ???
Haven't you got obituaries to read ???

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Silly Aussie, its not Sunday.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Sorry....you have me mixed up with Grace. Her thread is here

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

I'll ask you the same question. Show me what I said that makes you think what you think about me.

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One cannot prove perceptions. It is what it is. Observations & insights
accumumilated over many months tend to stick around until things change.
Your profestations to the contrary, they haven't changed at all.

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Originally Posted by wombat2u2004

Awwwwww.....that can't happen Lizzy. He'd probably win the war all by himself in a day or two. What would happen to all of those generals....they'd be out of a job.

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Believe me, I had a similar thought.:) The Generals could carry his bags.:D

Holy crap!!!! Who put the bee in Wom's bonnet (or helmet)??? He certainly is wound up after his absence. Maybe something to do with the Harley???? :confused::confused::confused::eek:

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Originally Posted by lizbud

One cannot prove perceptions. It is what it is. Observations & insights
accumumilated over many months tend to stick around until things change.

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This, I can agree with. Thanks.

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Your profestations to the contrary, they haven't changed at all.

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This, I disagree with. Frankly, I doubt I will ever change your mind, no matter what I do.


But, I always like a challenge. ;)


All I ask is that you not hate me for my opinions. We all have different ideas about things. I think we can discuss them in a rational manner, that does not require resorting to childish personal attacks. And, regardless of your perceptions, a great many others here seem to think I have changed a lot in the years.

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Originally Posted by blue

No.

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Try this...


[Forest Gump Voice]

No sir, we are not relation.

[/Forest Gump Voice]

:D

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

And, regardless of your perceptions, a great many others here seem to think I have changed a lot in the years.

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Take it from me, there are a great many others who percieve it differently.
Most of them don't think talking this out is worth their time & effort. Can't say
that I blame them, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion & I won't try
to talk them out of it. Just don't confuse silence with consent.

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

I think we can discuss them in a rational manner

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I think you where just proven wrong.

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Originally Posted by lizbud

Take me from me, there are a great many others who percieve it differently.
Most of them don't think talking this out is worth their time & effort. Can't say
that I blame them, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion & I won't try
to talk them out of it. Just don't confuse silence with consent.

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<le sigh>

I am not looking for consent Liz. But, carry on making things up as you go along if you wish.

Jets and Sharks forever I reckon.

I read Grace's military obit's everyday. A lot of soldiers must be making major mistakes. A good part of the obit's say their deaths are under investigation. :confused: So do a good part of them get purple hearts even tho they may have errored in their judgement. The metals must make the soldier then? What if you don't receive any metals what does it make you a flunky soldier? The only thing I can think of is being in the wrong place at the wrong time ( you could get killed & receive a metal) or being in the right place at the right time (you could survive & receive a metal)?

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Originally Posted by Bonny

metal

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...

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

<le sigh>

But, carry on making things up as you go along if you wish.

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Seems to work alright for you, I just might try it.:D

It's "medal". Parts of them are made out of metal, but they are called medals.:)

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Originally Posted by lizbud

Seems to work alright for you, I just might try it.:D

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You're doing quite well at it already. :D

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Originally Posted by lizbud

Seems to work alright for you, I just might try it.:D

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LOL

Liz. I would LOVE to have a real debate with you. You pick the topic.