Oh, GREAT! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Sirrahsim
I'm "there" already! :eek:
Printable View
Oh, GREAT! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Sirrahsim
I'm "there" already! :eek:
LOL, I didn't even see your response until just now. Thanks to my pals for sticking up for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
The irony of it is- you completely support my theory, "all dogs bite, it is just a matter of when" when you say,
That is exactly my point! We are humans, they are dogs, we speak different languages, and we do not know- often times- what sets them off and causes a reaction, like biting.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
Read, think, breathe, and read again before you spout off.
What do you classify as a "random bitting dog"? The Collie that nipped a stranger? There could be a number of factors contributing to that situation, making it FAR FROM a "random bitting". Take into account that people herding is a very common issue with herding dogs. Also, that these dogs tend to be aloof if not fearful toward strangers. He could be a perfectly nice dog... who is definitely being poorly handled (if the girl even allowed him room to touch a stranger period), who might have been spooked by a stranger standing in between a car door.Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
The thing that really stands out to me is the fact that the dog didn't flip out, bark, growl, snarl, or lunge for the OP's face. He quietly nipped the back of her knee. That is classic herding behavior. That is totally unfair to the OP... and I completely feel for her. But to say a dog like that deserves to die? Many herding dogs cope with their stress/fear issues by herding. Gonzo does it. He hasn't made anyone bleed or left a mark, but if a stranger scares him and is moving irradically, he will nip at their feet. It's terrible that the OP bled, but to me a dog who will nip cowardicely is not even comparable to a dog who will take a chunk out of some one. ALL this dog really needs is to be properly controlled and desensitized to people walking by him, if he has the issues that it sounds like he has. I think it's arrogant and just plain inhuman to sentence a dog to death for being afraid and irresponsibly handled.
My point is, what may seem completely random to you, probably does have a good reason behind it and probably did come with a warning. There are a few dogs out there who aren't wired right, and a lot of dogs who are either badly bred or badly handled and trained or a combination of the two. I agree that a dog who bites unprovoked is dangerous; however, it sounds like this wasn't the first time he's done this, and that he's a fearful dog whose owners deal with it by muzzling him and don't even stop to check if the people he bites are ok. To me, this is an owner issue, not a dog issue.
As for what makes dogs bite... for me, it's about being as calm, predictable and non-threatening as possible. I work at a dog daycare and I have never been bitten. Everyone else has, even if it's just nips from herding dogs, who do that ALL THE TIME, perfectly friendly dogs who have trouble controlling their instinct. There's this one BC mix who has nipped everyone's butt repeatedly except for mine - everyone who steps into a playroom with her. I think I've just adjusted myself to moving in a non-livestock-like manner or something, with Gonzo. :p Gonzo has never herded me either. You can tell a lot from a dog's eyes. If they are staring at you like you're prey, or livestock, you need to do something to snap them out of it and/or be a completely unexciting statue. Body language is also huge. If a dog is tensing up, something needs to break that tension. I tend to "Shhh" (not in a Cesar Millan way), crouch down and turn my body sideways to a really stressed out dog. It calms them right down.
I think you answered your own question. I'm talking about "bitting" NOT "nipping". BIG difference. So I wont respond to the rest of your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by bckrazy
My chihuahua, Walter is insane. He will literally kiss me one minute and full on bite me the next. He is a puppy mill rescue and has mental issues from it. I know it's bad, but I don't do much about it. After the mill, we had several teeth removed and even if he gets you it's not that bad. Anyone that handles him, knows his ways and at 7 lbs, he's not too much of a threat.
So to answer your question about why they bite, I clearly have no clue! :D
Personally, I wouldn't let Walter get that close to a stanger if I thought he'd nip.
Oh and BTW, I'm not about to send my severely abused 7 lb puppy mill rescue that was SO abused I taught him how to use his back legs at 6 years old because the cage he lived in was so small that had burns on his feet/body from laying in urine to the rainbow bridge for biting. And yes, he completely full on bites me at times.
This isn't a flame, but that is just ridiculous!
Does he draw blood when he bites? or does it just hurt?Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
If there is no blood, thats just a nip IMO... I'm talking about a bite, where the teeth sink into your skin & cause you to bleed. Besides your dogs seems to have a reason to bite, Abuse... so thats still not the kind of dog I'm talking about...
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
Normally, he does not draw blood, but it's not for lack of trying, his teeth are limited.
Also, please don't get the wrong idea about him. 99% of his day, he snuggles and plays, but when he wakes up in the morning he bites. I get bit everyday, then he snaps out of it and lovess me again.
I do agree with you but to a MUCH lesser extent. For example, some dog fighting dogs can't be rehabilitated and the best thing is euthanasia. For me, it has to be an extreme situation where normal training and evaluations failed.
Thats interesting. I often wondered why dogs that have biting issues don't just have teeth removed.
Thank your for being understanding of Walter. My casey was formerly abused also and I have to watch for her signals for sure....
Maybe I should have explained better then, not every dog has things that set them off. Dog with traumatic past, poor breeding etc are the ones who you dont know what could set them off, usually still you have some idea that your dog is like that. It's not your dog is happy and healthy half its life then bites because it saw someone dressed in black.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataholic
Also dogs who have no structure in their life (which is A LOT of dogs now a days) will bite to defend themselves because their owner is under them and they cant trust their owner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caseysmom
Walter is my little man and I love him to death. He needs a mom like me to spoil him after what happened to him at that puppy mill. I owe him the best possible life I can give him.
BTW, we didn't have his teeth removed cause he bites. They were so rotten from the poor diet at the mill. The vet would barely touch them and they would bleed. He had 13 removed in March 2009. He has none, top or bottom, from K9 to K9. He was at the vet yesterday and it looks likehe's going again to have more removed soon.
QUOTE=buttercup132;2263550]
Also dogs who have no structure in their life (which is A LOT of dogs now a days) will bite to defend themselves because their owner is under them and they cant trust their owner.[/QUOTE]
I don't think this was aimed at me but I wanted to comment. Walter has structure, but we aren't very strict with him. He is 7lbs and the cage he lived in for 6 straight years was so tiny that his legs never devolped correctly. HOW SMALL WAS THAT CAGE! :mad: I don't want to know.
If that was me, I would have mental issues for sure. Walter gets away with more than the other dogs for sure, but it's not like I let him run wild.
(also, just wanted to comment-next time anyone is thinking about buying a dog from a pet shop, please think about Walter and all he lived through. The parents of that puppy are more than likely in a tiny cage, with burns on their feet, eating garbage)
In case you want to put a face to a name, Walter is the black guy in the middle. The other 2 are 2 of his 3 brothers. Billy is the brown Min Pin and Willy is the black and white Fox Terrier.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ed0e010124.jpg
That is the sentence that matters here IMO. You know your dog and wouldn't put him or others in a potential biting situation. How you deal with him in your own home is entirely up to you :)Quote:
Personally, I wouldn't let Walter get that close to a stanger if I thought he'd nip
Yep, that's exactly it. The only people I let handle him are my husband, my mom, dad, brother and me on a regular basis. He's usually easy to read and you know when he might strike. I NEVER let strangers touch him and even my close friends don't pick him up. It's the way it has to be and he gets plenty of snuggles from his momma!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawsitive Thinking
My Peanuts, I have tears in my eyes reading your post of Walter. I didn't know this horrible story about him. Bless you a million times over for taking him in and loving him to pieces. He deserves you, and you him, I am sure. :love:
I agree 100%!! He is adorable!!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataholic
Thanks guys! You don't need to thank me for loving Walter. Despite his biting issues, which are only about 1% of his day, I dare anyone that meets him not to love him! He really is mostly a good boy. :D
I didn't mean it like that, Peanuts! I just meant that you are special person for taking in such a tail of a dog and loving him to pieces!!! Not that no one else would love him. :love:
Oh I know! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Cataholic
My Peanuts, there needs to be more people like you. Like many of the people here on Pet Talk! So many animals have horrific lives in these puppy mills, or any neglectful or abusive homes, only to be saved from them and put to sleep. All living things deserve to have a happy and fulfilled life.... and it breaks my heart to know how many thousands of animals out there with no one who loves are cares for them.... how many will never know what it is to have a loving home.
Bless those who take in these poor animals and let them live out the rest of their lives in happiness :love:
Were you not saying that you would PTS that Collie?Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
The OP didn't even know she was nipped... she had to check. Not that it's totally horrible that she had to go through that for just standing there, but the dog didn't take a chunk out of her. Nipping can lead to a little bleeding, maybe a scratch or two, but the difference between a nip that leaves no mark and a nip that causes bleeding can come down to something as simple as not being taught good bite inhibition as a puppy. My point was, this dog didn't just race up to a family member and attack them. He nipped a stranger that was in a kind of unusual situation, because his owner gave him the slack to and probably because he is a fearful dog; I wouldn't consider that a random biting dog.
I don't think this was aimed at me but I wanted to comment. Walter has structure, but we aren't very strict with him. He is 7lbs and the cage he lived in for 6 straight years was so tiny that his legs never devolped correctly. HOW SMALL WAS THAT CAGE! :mad: I don't want to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
If that was me, I would have mental issues for sure. Walter gets away with more than the other dogs for sure, but it's not like I let him run wild.
(also, just wanted to comment-next time anyone is thinking about buying a dog from a pet shop, please think about Walter and all he lived through. The parents of that puppy are more than likely in a tiny cage, with burns on their feet, eating garbage)
In case you want to put a face to a name, Walter is the black guy in the middle. The other 2 are 2 of his 3 brothers. Billy is the brown Min Pin and Willy is the black and white Fox Terrier.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ed0e010124.jpg[/QUOTE]
You just said he gets away with a lot so no he doesn't have structure.
If he had teeth that would be a mess to each your own but just because he has no teeth doesnt mean it's right.
Erica there is no point, you know how she is from years ago there is no getting through to her. She put you on her ignore list or say she wishes to not answer that :rolleyes:
Is this aimed at me? Did I do something to you? At 1st I thought it was, but for the most part, I've been sweet to people on here for years unless they say something terribly off base and crazy. Even in my responses here, I've kept things pleasant.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
1st of all Walter has structure. There are certain things he cannot handle, crates and yelling are 2 he freaks out about. So bad that he actually will lose control of his urine and pee where he stands. He is TERRIFIED and I refuse to put him through any stress that isn't completely needed. I do let him get away with a few things because of his past that I do not let the other dogs get away with.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
For example, since he was 6 years old, and never potty trained, I use positive reinforcement to train him to go on a puppy pad. I would not let the other dogs do that, and if the others pee in the house they get yelled at and immediately go outside. That just won't work for Walter.
It's amazing how a blanket statement like, 'he doesn't have structure' can just be thrown out when one literally has no specific details on the situation.
Let it go...I would take those insults with grain of salt. They are ignore worthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
Agreed. BC talks down to everybody! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by caseysmom
No it wasn't to you it was about King, I dont even know if thats her user name anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
Letting him go on a pee pad isn't something I would consider letting him get away with, I mean like eating off your plate while you are eating and letting him. That kind of getting away with things.
Pomtzu no actually I'm not just people who assume dogs are aggressive when they aren't.
There are people who were on here way before you who can testify to that, like Erica ;) of course most people have left who were on when I was.
I have to agree with Buttercup... PT is very different, with very different members. I remember when I used to learn something new every time I came here. It was such a source of knowledge and information for me. I'm not saying that it isn't anymore, but dangerous/ignorant/hateful advice and threads about how irresponsibly owned dogs should die just hurts my heart. And when people try to talk some sense (like in Pomtzu's loose dog thread) they're called names and/or the thread is deleted because it becomes clear who is speaking from an educated viewpoint.
Let me just say, that King was not too popular years ago because of her kill-first-ask-questions-later feelings toward all sorts of animals. :(
Me?Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
Also who's Erica?
Just so I can understand whats going on lol :p
Erica is bckrazy...
And yes you.
Thank you Erica, I may not say it in the nicest way but after leaving PT I moved onto much better things and learned a lot more then you could learn here.
Go try joining some other dog forums, you will get shot down pretty fast with the way you guys think.
EDIT: Off topic so out of respect I removed what I said...
Missed this post.. oops...Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
Totally agree... Thats mostly the kind of random bitting I'm talking about.. Bitting for no reason at all... Poor breeding (puppy mills are very much to blame for this, not 100% of course) really does mess up a dogs brain & the dog can be so unpredictable its both dangerous for themselves & anything else in their path.
Also agree with the lack of structure... Same goes for humans too...
Here is one of my Dad's fav stories to tell us (I've been hearing them non-stop for weeks now, as my sister is preg & he wants us to raise our kids properly... no I don't have any.. they will happen soon :eek:).
My sister & I were well behaved kids 90% of the time as we had a solid structure created by our folks (mostly dad). Susan's kids were wild psycho kids & Susan screamed at them all the time & they never obeyed. My dad refused to visit & I hated it too as it was horrible!! Dad loved to babysite the 2 boys as they were very well behaved for him, as he gave them structure, so they knew how to behave & we all got a long great. The second Susan would walk into the house to pick them up, the yelling would start & the kids would be wild again. After that, dad always had them ready outside for them to get into her van so they could be wild in there & not in our house... This also happened with several other neighbours kids Dad babysat for.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by bckrazy
Yes - I deleted that thread. Why??? - because it had served it's purpose and it became clear to me, that it was now only attracting the pot-stirrers. Most people posted very sensible comments and suggestions, but there were those bad apples whose only purpose was to try to cause trouble. As far as the educated viewpoint??? - can't say that there were any from those who wanted an argument. They apparently think their word is gospel, however, they need to put a sock in it until they can walk in my shoes and can personally view the situation at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by bckrazy
And because of the Rotti and little dog you adopted then had pts.Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
And people werent mad at you for raising feeder mice..it was the fact that you treated them like pets that was the sick part.
Pomtzu does it makes you feel good that you come to any thread I post in and say I put everyone down.
Are you jealous that I have more knowledge when it comes to dogs?
Please, just stop. You mentioned how you left PT and moved on to "better" things. Then why must you still come back and cause problems?Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
It's sad really. I enjoyed seeing your animals, but now I am afraid to read your posts because I just know it's going to start some drama. :(
I agree. It seems that BC only shows up when there is a possible controversy she can get into. If you don't like this board, move away from it 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz_Zoee
I wish I knew half as much about anything as you think you know about dogs. You never change. Your arrogance never waivers and your desire to argue never waivers.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.:confused: :confused: :confused:
I dont come back to cause problems not my fault people dont agree with what I say even if it is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz_Zoee
If the shoe fits BC - then wear it. I guess it's comparable to your uncalled for comments in my thread - right???Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
It doesn't make me feel good to discredit anyone, and that's not the intention here. I just get tired of the know-it-alls sitting on their lofty throne and slinging crap at others who they feel are below them.
And me - jealous of you - for any reason - is totally ludicrous and laughable at the same time. And there you go again, saying you have more knowledge of dogs than I do??? And just what do you base that statement on??? Putting me down, are you??? Sure looks that way........
For the LAST TIME, they were NOT MY DOGS!!!!! I had no say in their fatesQuote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
Besides, the hate started MANY years before them, & I still have no idea where Bear(rottie) IS!! Like I said, NOT my dogs!
EDIT:
& if you had been paying ANY attention to the THS & the posts I had about the the little dog, then you WOULD KNOW THAT THE LITTLE DOG WASN'T PUT DOWN!!!!
You claim to be educated, but you put blame where it doesn't belong. You should KNOW the Canadian Laws, & you should KNOW, I had no Rights in either of those Dogs fates. Maybe your not as educated as you think you are.
They were mad at me for raising feeder Rats. I'm the one that got the hate mail about feeders & having predator pets.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
The adults were cared for with Respect & NEVER became feeders! Some of the adults were more then breeders, they were pets. I didn't raise the babies as pets, as they weren't.. they were feeders, but I raised them with respect, like they deserved.. Just like our Cows, chickens & Pigs deserve! I refuse to lower myself like those farmers do, they are in it for the $$ only & have no issues pumping their livestock full of chemicals.. or allowing their live stock to walk on broken legs or sore feet.. I did my best to keep the feeders healthy & sane... There is no reason they should live in sheer terror & hell before becoming a meal.
I still believe in that too!
I'm not saying you are right or wrong in your posts. The problem I have with your knowledge is how you deliver it. You always put the person down and speak rudely toward them. Like in this thread. Of course you went back and changed the original rude post.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
You want people to respect you and your information you want to share, yet you can't respect other peoples opinions or comments.