You are certainly entitled to your feelings. I just have trouble understanding them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonny
By the way, there are two other choices on the ballots. A Liberterian and a Reform party member. :)
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You are certainly entitled to your feelings. I just have trouble understanding them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonny
By the way, there are two other choices on the ballots. A Liberterian and a Reform party member. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonny
How so?
Update.
Source.Quote:
API/Fox News deal: Sean Hannity show and Greta Van Susteren’s show “On the Record” to air the Michelle Obama tape in less than 24 hours.
Posted by africanpress on October 30, 2008
Many have been wondering about what will happen to the Michelle Obama tape, now that API has received death threats for planning to have the tape aired. Death threats mounted after API refused an offer of 3 million US dollars by Senator Obama’s Campaign manager.
There has been speculations that Fox News may deny that there is an agreement already reached that gives the them permission to air the tape. The public who are aware of the existence of a tape should be aware that some elements in our society would not like the message in the tape to come out.
The agreement stipulates that any information on the day and hour the tape will be aired will only be announce 15 minutes to the airing time. This was agreed upon to avoid any pressure being directed to Fox News Network by individuals who would want to get the details about the tape in question.
The airing of the tape can take place any time from this day and due to its sensitivity, people who will inquire from Fox News and API for details will either get a no comment answer or that there is no agreement on the table.
We are aware of the fact that some people made inquiries today by emailing or telephoning Fox News and may have been disappointed with the answers they got. API is not here to mislead anyone and takes the responsibility to inform its loyal readers that the tape will be aired unless pressure wins over any of the parties involved, of which case that will amount to a breach of contract. Such a thing is unacceptable because API is committed to let the American people get the information in the tape and judge for themselves what value it may have in their political lives.
Although the parties had agreed that the particular shows going to air the tapes should not be made public before 15 minutes to airing of the tapes, public pressure has forced us to make this revelation earlier than we should. Both parties, API and Fox are in agreement that no further details will be released on the subject.
Source.Quote:
The intended release of Michelle Obama tapes stirs trouble in many circles
Posted by africanpress on October 30, 2008
The Obama camp is not saying anything publicly now, but have chosen to work behind the scenes in their efforts to influence the release of Michelle Obama tape. The impact the tape is expected to have on National Security when finally released will be huge.
Peaceful approach to have the tapes not to be released has now turned into direct threats directed against API. The threats being unleashed against API comes after API Chief Editor’s unwillingness to accept the offer of a bribe by Obama Camp’s Campaign Manager was turned down.
The next few hours will be very crucial for API. The news organization is now putting the facts surrounding the bribe attempt together and will take a decision today to request the police to file charges against the Campaign Manager.
API on the other hand does not want to surrender to the pressure being mounted, even though faced with danger for ignoring the warnings not to allow the release of the tape. API is being bombarded with death threats from people who say have been hired to silence API and those involved in the plan to have the tapes released.
The US embassy in Norway together with the Norwegian Security Service has been duly informed of the situation and has promised to give the matter the priority it deserves.
Due to the situation that has arisen, and security considerations, API reprentative’s trip to New York today to participate in a planned live interview will be temporarily delayed for some hours while the Embassy looks into the matter.
Now that the situation has become so dangerous because some people are afraid to let the American people know the truth about Michelle Obama’s stand exhibited by her in the tape, API will thread carefully and will classify details on what is going on, especially details on when the API representative will fly to New York, which flight and where he will be housed while in the US. This will be done to avoid exposing him to any danger while on US soil
API will not rest until the tape is aired so that the American people may judge for themselves whether the contents of the tape is of relevance to the elections taking place November the 4th.
And for the record, I think America and Americans are ready for a black president, just not Obama.
The release date on the Salon article predates the first of the API releases by 5 days. Ild call that damage controll.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizbud
I just wish they hadn't run Rep. J.C. Watts out of politics.
The NAACP made some rather disparaging remarks about Rep. Watts (who is black, so they SHOULD be defending him, not attacking him), and he basically got so disgusted with it he left politics completely.
Has anyone heard these tapes yet? If you believe Mrs. Obama speaks
English with a heavy accent, then you might fall for this drivel. Too dumb
for words.:rolleyes:
You mean these tapes...these tapes that will blow the lid off the election might be.....fake?????Quote:
Originally Posted by lizbud
I am shocked....absolutely shocked.
Next thing you will be telling me the brouhaha over Obama's birth certificate is so much bull hockey????
At this point I think Nader's gonna win. :D
Ginger's Mom, you put it so eloquently :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger's Mom
Race is a big issue. Unless you've felt racism yourself, I think it's very difficult to imagine the enormous impact it plays in your life. I live in a predominately white area. I went to predominately white schools. My interests and hobbies are dominated by an overwhelming white majority. And you can bet that I feel it. I feel it when I sign a letter with my last name. I feel it when I talk to folks on the phone and subsequently meet them in person. I see them, and then I see myself. I see the difference. They see the difference. I am all too aware of my race and my outward differences.
As much as we would like ignore our outward differences and insist that we live in an "equal" society, the fact is we DON'T. Minorities are overwhelmingly more predisposed to health problems, diseases, lack of higher education, increases in violence, etc. The problem is that racism is so deeply ingrained into our society that we can choose to ignore it. We can choose to ignore that all the lowest performing schools (in my particular area) are those with an Af-Am/Mex-Am majority. We can choose to ignore that a majority of gang violence victims are minorities. We can choose to ignore that crime-ridden inner cities in large metropolitan areas are overwhelmingly composed of minorities.
But I just can't ignore it. I am a part of it. There is criticism against race-specific scholarships and whatnot. But when you consider the societal barriers that exist for these disenfranchised groups, you really can't help but admit that it's the least we can do.
I will also admit that I'm from Oakland, CA, where the ethnic disparity is simultaneously brutally obvious and, yet, alluringly obscure.
I'd go with Dennis (The Menace) from Cleveland, but he dropped out. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Alysser
:D
Did you like him for himself - or his gorgeous wife ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder & Smoke
I tend to believe that most people hire because of qualifications, instead of race. Call me naive.
Everyone in some way has felt discriminated against, black/white/mexican etc... I am the whitest girl you will ever meet. Really, southern accent and all. I have also felt prejudice against me. The people who are prejudice, I choose to ignore. They wont change, so I wont change my mind.
I must also add that gang violence is because of the gang and the need/want to break the law. NOT because the color of their skin. I also believe that the crime ridden areas with minorites, is BECAUSE the minorities are choosing to not be upstanding citizens in this society. THEY need to break the cycle... I can not and will not support helping those areas/people when they wont help themselves.
I will never believe in giving to one race, instead of ALL races. NO RACE (IMO)is more deserving than another.
I believe we should appreiciate our race, but not dwell on it and blame everything that does not go our way on the color of our skin. Until we do that, nothing will ever change.
Giselle works her tail off in school, trust me nobody works harder than her. Its funny and sad I never thought of Asians as being discriminated against, you know I am not far from you and its just so diverse here that I truly don't see color. I enjoy everyones differences...and well mostly the food:D
Its sad that in the bay area you still get treated differently there is quite a huge asian population. Success is due in large part to work ethic but thats not the whole thing, I don't know any teenager that works harder than Giselle and I certainly hope the playing feel is equal for her when it comes to universities/jobs.
Do I assume you are as deeply offended by the legacy system at the top colleges/universities in our country? Such as the one George Bush used to get his "gentleman's C's"? (Legacy system is when...if your father or uncle or grandfather went to the school you get in. It is the orginal "Affirmative Action." Yale, Havard, Princeton perfected the systems.)Quote:
Originally Posted by kt_luvs_kitties
What do you say about the boards of directors of MAJOR corporation tape recording themselves discussing why blacks are not as qualified to work for them as white folk? There are some well-known cases including Coca-Cola and an oil company in Texas -- name escapes me and I don't want to name the wrong one. I am talking recent cases.
And yes, you are naive if you believe most people get hired because of their qualifications. They get hired because of where they went to school, who they know, how well they interview, how well they dress, and ...yeah qualifications.
It is called the halo effect. We tend to want to associate with people who look like us...who remind us of ourselves. People get hired by people they look like or talk like or... Of course, most organizations today work to change this pattern. But change comes slowly.
"Give in to one race?" There are attempts to level the playing field -- for those who look different -- sex, race, disability, etc. It is not "giving in" to any one group.
I have noticed over the last few weeks lots of ..."them"...."They" shouldn't get government assistance. "I" get it because I deserve it. "They" are free-loaders. "I" am different. "They" do not have a right to an opinion about what happens to the US government. "I" am different. "I" am entitled.
And those laws...Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, Equal Pay Act, etc. protect YOU just as much as THEM.
:oQuote:
Originally Posted by Grace
I've *watched* Dennis since long before he aquired his "trophy" wife ...
I've sometimes been in awe of how downright GOOFY some of his ideas are.
And then, every so often, he slips in an almost workable idea I agree with.
He's sorta my "None of the Above" guy!
:p
So if you heard the "tapes" at least give a clue where you heard them or you are talking out of your posterior. Again.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizbud
The BS about BO's CLB could very well be BH, its just odd that presenting a CC of the CLB is so difficult to produce. BO even recently went back to HI, he could have sent one of his disciples to retrieve it for him. Nor should be hard to prove he was never a citizen of Indonesia, or if he was that he reafirmed his USA citzenship by the age of 18.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
I have to wonder if the Clinton's are funding Berg and his lawsuit.
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Your personal short-hand?
:mad:
:rolleyes:
You are right, I am offended IF someone {anyone} gets into college, just because their parents went there. Only if they work for it, and deserve it.
Just like I believe that NOONE should get something for nothing. Noone should get college scholarships, based on race. In my mind, race= nothing. It means nothing to me. I love my race, I hope that others love theirs. BUT it should NOT entitle ANYONE to ANYTHING, IMO.
-------
:And yes, you are naive if you believe most people get hired because of their qualifications. They get hired because of where they went to school, who they know, how well they interview, how well they dress, and ...yeah qualifications:
Almost all of the above is what I define as qualifications... Schooling, interview, dress... The only I dont is who they know...
-------------
Hey, minorities get into college for free... ISNT that on a HIGHER playing field ? An unfair advantage?? My parents and myself have to pay for my schooling, work hard EVERYDAY, but someone else, can just get in for free? That is not equal OR fair to me...
Edited to add: And no, myself or my family has never been on ANY government assistance. I believe that people who TRULY need it should get it.
BO-Barack Obama, CLB-Certificate of Live Birth, CC-Certified Copy, and BH of corse is Bull Hockey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder & Smoke
Ill happily admit I was hoaxed if this plays out the way the Obama worshippers hope it does.
Katie, it's just not that nice and simple in our society. =/ You may feel, from your experiences, that society IS that fair and equal and that gang violence and inner city crime are direct results of minorities' lack of interest in gaining a better life, but it's NOT. *Nobody* truly wants to be in the ghetto, working min. wage jobs and facing constant, daily violence.
Here's a disturbingly common scenario:
How can an inner city minority girl go to college when 1) she skipped preschool because her mother could not afford it 2) went to underfunded and, basically, cr@ppy public elementary/middle schools 3) went to an underfunded high school ridden with bad influences, etc. 4) her parents are busy working minimum wage jobs and not giving her the attention she needs 5) she doesn't have the access to the proper resources to get out of her situation, etc. etc.?
There's a reason why there are so many young/teenage pregnancies in inner cities. There's a reason why drugs are such a big problem, as are pimps and prostitution. It's not a life style they choose. It's often the only options available. It's sad. It's extremely sad, but how can they escape that cycle when there's no loophole out? *This* is why we need affirmative action programs.
I guess it's very difficult to talk about when we're coming from two totally different atmospheres. =/
Caseysmom, thanks for the compliments :p The Bay Area is very diverse, but that also makes us all aware of our differences. Oakland is a prime example. East/west Oakland are extremely crime ridden and inhabited primarily by af-ams and hispanics. North Oakland, near Piedmont, is extremely affluent and predominately white. The two best Oakland schools are in North Oakland. Some of THE worst schools in perhaps the state are in east/west Oakland. It's just sad that this disparity even exists, but it does.
I can kinda agree to this. Ive worked for 7 electrical shops since 1992, only 2 of my bosses appreciated my skill and knowlege of the trade. I wear shorts most of the year, I might shave once a month, usualy longer between shaves and when I do I usually shave my head at the same time, I have 5 tattoos, my tounge is pierced, and I have a tendancy to be harsh and abrasive. For a number a years after I started running my own crew I had a mohawk, before and after my USMC experience. No matter how many times I proved myself, 5 companies judged me by my dress and appearance not my qualifications.Quote:
Originally Posted by kt_luvs_kitties
I have seen people with connections in the construction trades get a pass on their skills, their knowlege, and their dealings with homeowners and builders time after time for many reasons, who their parents are, who they know, and their ethnicity are just 3 examples. Only 2 of the companies Ive worked for respected my skill and knowlege of the trade. I am now slower then the younger crews, and I found out from my now dead bosses wife how much he respected my knowlege and skills. I do things right the first time and make no excuses for the few times I do eff up, heck Im the first to admit Ive effed up. Alot of the guys Ive worked with over the years will throw someone else under the bus to make themselves look better and try and move up when things get effed up or just take more time then expected.
The fact that the Obama camp preemptively played the race card, to me, says alot about his character. The people he associated with for years and now suddenly are distant or casual acquaintances speaks alot about his character as well.
So until I hear or read first hand the interview, see a judgement in Bergs lawsuit, and heck lets toss in Michelle Obama's college thesis as well, BO's character is very questionable.
Its called lack of parenting at the very least and extreme teenage boredom at the worst, Bristol Palin is a fine example. There is basicaly nothing out here for the teens to do, there is really no scene of any kind for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giselle
The drugs or the prostition? The pimps have a total choice, as do the drug addicts and the prostitutes, take the not so easy way out.Quote:
There's a reason why drugs are such a big problem, as are pimps and prostitution. It's not a life style they choose.
Alot of the problems we are seeing in the US is lack of choice, not a lack of change.Quote:
It's often the only options available. It's sad. It's extremely sad, but how can they escape that cycle when there's no loophole out? *This* is why we need affirmative action programs.
I do understand what you are saying. But I disagree.
I believe that if people want out of the ghetto, they get out of the ghetto. NOT by selling drugs, prostitution or ANYTHING else that is illegal.
They work hard at school, they dont drop out. They dont let people encourage them to do drugs or rob a store. People must make their own decisions, and live with the consequences. The reason so many minorities are in jail, is because they let others influence them, and did the wrong thing. They can blame that on NOONE but themselves. It is their fault. Their choice. Lack of money or education DOES NOT make someone break the law.
I know that because My husband dropped out of school in 11th grade, lived in the "ghetto", was a minority in a prodominatly african american community. Single parent home... Got shot at, gang influence, all of that.
Did he break the law, nope. Get someone pregnant, turn into a pimp or gang member, NOPE. He went back to school, got his GED (at 18) and went on to work in the prison system to make the streets safer. Then went on to college, worked hard to PAY FOR IT, and now works and makes a sufficiant life for himself, me and my pets. He did not get help from the government, he also could not get funding because he was white. His mother NEVER helped, EVER. She had to work a minimum wage job, she never could help, she could not even feed him alot of the time.
I dont buy into the whole "it is the way people MUST live that decides their futures". Nope, it is the way people CHOOSE to live that makes their lives what they are.
My husband did not get out of that lifestyle because of race (white), he got out of it because he WORKED HARD, WANTED MORE, and DID NOT blame his life/ failures on the color of his skin, be it white or black or
yellow.
PS= his mother also got pregnant at 15, and went on to have 4 children by 23, she as well did not turn to prostitution, she just worked 2 minimum wage jobs and went without. She has also now went back to college to get a masters in psychology and works with mentally challenged people.
I probably could have made a better argument but I agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Quoted for the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by kt_luvs_kitties
All of those are, or maybe I should say can be, culturally different. If you are saying that you think what school they went to, how they dress, and how well they interview should be factors, than you have to understand that a person's background and culture are going to influence those things. So the white anglo-saxon person who is doing the interviewing has a certain idea of what is "appropriate" dress, behavior, schooling, that may not be the same as someone from a different cultural background. Therefore, the hiring person is going to hire the person with whom he feels most comfortable. That is even more true the higher the position is in the hierarchy of the business. It may not matter quite as much for the lower levels, which is why the minorities are working in the lower level minimum pay jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by kt_luvs_kitties
Your husband's mother may have been just as qualified to work a higher paying job as those that were in that position, but because of cultural prejudice she didn't get it. She had to work two minimum wage jobs, and had raise her children in a bad situation, rather than being given the opportunity of getting out. And you feel that nothing should be done to change people's attitudes toward cultural differences? I have to repeat myself, you cannot ignore it and hope it will go away, or straighten itself out.
I am glad to hear no one in your family has ever received unemployment insuance or social security. Those are government assistance programs many people take advantage of at some time!Quote:
Originally Posted by kt_luvs_kitties
There are many programs -- scholarships, grants, assistance -- available to people who are white. There are scholarships for people who are left-handed, whose foreparents came from Slovenia -- all kinds of things. I just hired a young woman who went to an excellent school -- full ride -- because she is a good softball player.
Is that fair? Not if you are right handed -- or your foreparents came from Croatia -- or if you are very uncoordinated.
Fair is when I get what I want. Unfair is when I don't. Really unfair is when someone else gets what I want.
But I must ask...you love your race? I can understand loving your pets, your spouse, your children, your family...but your race?? What is it about your race that you love?
LOL :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Cinder & Smoke
Once again, HOW can these people break out of the cycle when their only option - education - is severely underfunded and, oftentimes, chaotic? Take a look at Oakland public schools, Richmond public schools, Compton public schools, etc. etc. These children are battling incompetent teachers, indifferent parents, outdated textbooks, inadequate nutrition, gang violence, lack of resources, drugs, prostitution, etc. They are battling *generations* of these influences. It's not a one time thing. It's not a single mistake. It's generations of mistakes.It's not that easy to break the cycle when your family has been living within it for generations and generations.
And, Blue, maybe it's not as pervasive in your area, but prostitution is NOT a choice for many girls in my area. It's something they've been pushed into. We recently had a child prostitution ring broken up. Do these children (pre-teens and young teens) really CHOOSE to sell their bodies? I highly doubt it.
I think that parents should take more of a role in teaching their kid to go to school and learn. IT's tough enough for a teacher to teach their lesson plan, they shouldn't have to be responsible for baby sitting, teaching, policing and raising kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giselle
Who's going to teach the parents about education when they never learned - nor did their ancestors from generations back?