A Few Questions on Feeding Raw.

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Originally Posted by .sarah

What would be something good to start them out on?
Chicken works well. It's cheap and bland and rarely causes a problem for dogs.

How often should they get organs?
It doesn't matter, really. If you want to feed them once a week that is fine, every day is also fine, and so is once every few weeks. Only thing I wouldn't reccomend is an all-organ meal, because that tends to cause the runs. And if you decide to feed them every day (which is a pain, I wouldn't reccomend trying that) then make sure you aren't giving too many organs. I think it's easier to feed them once or twice a week.

If I use Veggies, how much a week?
It shouldn't take over the diet. A tablespoon a day max, so about 7 tablespoons a week. What is that, a cup a week?

How many meals should I split into one day?
One meal a day is fine. You can feed two meals if that makes you feel better, but generally it is hard to get everything portion sized when you feed two meals.

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Okay, so.. if I fed them both about midday (3-ish?) I could give them some meat and a cup full of veggies, and maybe one day adding an organ in there and reducing the meat a bit? Chicken sounds okay, I'll have to check out our local butcher. I'm so afraid that I'm going to measure wrong or something and they're not going to have enough to eat..

Okay. They're lazy somedays, and active somedays, depends on their mood. Roxy I suppose needs about 1.25-1.5 pounds, and Lily .25?


I forgot to add, What kind of Vegetables would you feed?

They may be able to digest the carrots/fruits/veggies, but not in a way to benefit them.

The cell walls of plants fruits/veggies are made of cellulose, dogs cannot digest cellulose, thusare unable to get to the nutrients in the fruits/veggies.

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Originally Posted by Roxyluvsme13

I forgot to add, What kind of Vegetables would you feed?

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Here are a few I've found that are okay for dogs (pureed.)

Romaine Lettuce - No iceberg as it has no nutritional value
Parsley (small amounts)
Carrots
Pumpkin
Spinach
Silver beet
Tomatoes
Red, green, yellow capsicum peppers
Cabbage
broccoli
cauliflower
apples
bananas
whole oranges
papayas
mangoes
kiwi
cantaloupe
raspberries
garlic

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Originally Posted by Kfamr

Here are a few I've found that are okay for dogs (pureed.)

Romaine Lettuce - No iceberg as it has no nutritional value
Parsley (small amounts)
Carrots
Pumpkin
Spinach
Silver beet
Tomatoes
Red, green, yellow capsicum peppers
Cabbage
broccoli
cauliflower
apples
whole oranges
papayas
mangoes
kiwi
cantaloupe
garlic

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Now I need a blender..
Actually, Couldn't I use Cottage Cheese, Cheese, and Yogurt?

Yes, you do! :)

I prefer using our food processor VS. blender - it seems to puree the veggies a lot better. I also add a bit of water/milk if it's having trouble mixing it.

I'm weird but I have fun mixing up weird veggie/fruit combos. :p

*edit* Just saw the question. Do you mean to add to the veggie puree mixture? If so, yes. Cottage Cheese & plain yogurt are good, too. However, I'm not sure how much/what types of cheese are good for them.

Okay, so.. if I fed them both about midday (3-ish?) I could give them some meat and a cup full of veggies, and maybe one day adding an organ in there and reducing the meat a bit?
Sounds good, though I don't see reason to reduce the RMBs when you feed veggies and/or organs. You can also mix in the weeks worth of organs into the veggie mush for convenience.

I'm so afraid that I'm going to measure wrong or something and they're not going to have enough to eat..
Don't! If they look thin, increase their food, if they look overweight, decrease their food. It's really very simple ;)

Okay. They're lazy somedays, and active somedays, depends on their mood. Roxy I suppose needs about 1.25-1.5 pounds, and Lily .25?
If I remember correctly Roxy needs to gain weight and Lily is still growing, right? I would feed Roxy 4% of her body weight and Lily 3%. Then adjust as neccessary. If they are more active or sedentary on certain days then you would adjust their food accordingly :)

I just did some calculations..
Roxy would need 28.8 Ounces, and Lily would need 2.16 ounces. Does that sound about right?

How much do they weigh?

Roxy weighs about 45, and Lily weighs 4.5.
(pounds)

just so correct something that was mentioned ion the first page, RAW and BARF are NOT differnt things. BARF is a type of RAW. I met Dr. Ian BillingHurst about 5 years ago, when I first started feeding RAW, the only grinding involved was veggies which were only a small part of the diet, all meat and bones and organs were given whole, there were no supplements involved. however since then he has started marketing his BARF products, and he has changed things around, adding a million supplements and lots of grinding, my bet is it has to do with money more then anything else, as he now has a whole line of "BARF" products. originaly all RAW diets were refered to as "BARF" because it stands for "Bones and Raw Foods" as well as "Biologicly Appropriate Raw Foods" but since Billinghurst has done a marketing flip the term has really fallen out of favor and is only used to refere to his new style of RAW.

quote: "originaly all RAW diets were refered to as "BARF" because it stands for "Bones and Raw Foods" as well as "Biologicly Appropriate Raw Foods" but since Billinghurst has done a marketing flip the term has really fallen out of favor and is only used to refere to his new style of RAW."


That's alright, I'd prefer not to tell people I feed my dogs barf anyway.

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Originally Posted by IRescue452

quote: "originaly all RAW diets were refered to as "BARF" because it stands for "Bones and Raw Foods" as well as "Biologicly Appropriate Raw Foods" but since Billinghurst has done a marketing flip the term has really fallen out of favor and is only used to refere to his new style of RAW."


That's alright, I'd prefer not to tell people I feed my dogs barf anyway.

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I agree, I thought it was a bit weird to call it BARF, so I'll just stick to calling it Raw :p

Sorry to butt in... but I've been reading all the replies because I hope to convince my parents into feeding raw. I'm planning on making a PowerPoint with all the information that I've gathered, including prices etc. Ok I have one question: "For very fast eaters (like ones who gulp down food withought chewing it), would boneless chicken be okay for them?"

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Originally Posted by dogzr#1

"For very fast eaters (like ones who gulp down food withought chewing it), would boneless chicken be okay for them?"

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Yes, boneless is fine. But they will need some souce of calcium.

You'd be surprised, though. My three are major gulpers! Kiki is the worst. Today they got their first chicken leg, bones and all. Kiara took the longest to chew it!

Also, I fed it FROZEN as an extra percaution. If it's frozen and big enough to where they can't swallow - they HAVE to chew!

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Originally Posted by dogzr#1

Sorry to butt in... but I've been reading all the replies because I hope to convince my parents into feeding raw. I'm planning on making a PowerPoint with all the information that I've gathered, including prices etc. Ok I have one question: "For very fast eaters (like ones who gulp down food withought chewing it), would boneless chicken be okay for them?"

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I think I read (correct me if I'm wrong) If you have a "gulper" feed them large amounts and make them chew? (something along those lines, don't remember word for word) Sorry, dont know about the boneless or not, but I read something about that.

Okay, thank you! Who knows? Maybe Molly will take more than 10 seconds to eat her food!

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Originally Posted by dogzr#1

Okay, thank you! Who knows? Maybe Molly will take more than 10 seconds to eat her food!

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You may want to try it out! I'd start with a raw frozen chicken filet. For me, I was paranoid so I started them on raw fish. Nala swallowed it whole, Simba chewed it, and Kiara put it in her mouth, spit it out, a billion times and then finally ate it!

I don't know how Astra is going to react if we do give it a try. She is really picky as it is, so I hope she'll like this food. I'm mostly worried about Prince and Molly. They eat like it's their last meal on earth!

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Originally Posted by Roxyluvsme13

Now I need a blender..
Actually, Couldn't I use Cottage Cheese, Cheese, and Yogurt?

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Yes! :) Visa LOVES her cottage cheese and yogurt. All dogs are able to adjust their bodies to cope with lactose over time (as dog milk contains lactose sulfate, and so dogs are born with the ability to digest lactose -- only about half of dogs lose it, but can gain it back with time). Uncreamed or dry cottage cheese is best to start out with. It's low lactose and high in beneficial bacteria that promote digestion and healthy intestines. Yogurt is good bacteria-wise too, and can help put on weight (depending on what kind you buy). I buy the Balkan style, 6% fat yogurt for keeping weight on Visa. Both cottage cheese and yogurt help if the dog is gassy.

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Originally Posted by wolfsoul

Yes! :) Visa LOVES her cottage cheese and yogurt. All dogs are able to adjust their bodies to cope with lactose over time (as dog milk contains lactose sulfate, and so dogs are born with the ability to digest lactose -- only about half of dogs lose it, but can gain it back with time). Uncreamed or dry cottage cheese is best to start out with. It's low lactose and high in beneficial bacteria that promote digestion and healthy intestines. Yogurt is good bacteria-wise too, and can help put on weight (depending on what kind you buy). I buy the Balkan style, 6% fat yogurt for keeping weight on Visa. Both cottage cheese and yogurt help if the dog is gassy.

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Ah, okay. I don't think either of them are Lactose Intolerant, since they've done fine eating yogurt before. Could I add some Cottage Cheese or Yogurt in with the meat somedays instead of Veggies?

Yep, if you decide not to feed veggies everyday but have a substitute other than meat or organs, cottage cheese or yogurt is fine. :)

Now all I've left to do is wait on Erica's book, read it, and convince my mom Raw is better for the dogs, and get a blender.

Ok, I'll help answer these questions too. Even though they've already been taken care of ;)

What would be something good to start them out on? Definitely, chicken or turkey. Cheap, easy to find, easy to eat (especially for your little Lily), & not at all likely to cause a stomache upset.
How often should they get organs? I feed organs twice a week, Gonzo gets his with some muscle meat.
I use Veggies, how much a week? Like I said, I feed no more than 10% of their weekly intake. They usually get one or two small veggie puree meals per week.
How many meals should I split into one day? It depends... if you're feeding half or whole chicken or one large cut, I feed one meal. If it's something smaller, like one rib, or one or two wings, Gonzo gets 2 meals. If he's getting a half of a chicken or rabbit, which is a big meal in the morning, I will feed him veggie puree for dinner or goats milk & an egg or something.
I think that's it.. If I think of anything else I'll come back and edit.
Thought of somthing else.. My dogs are both normally active, especially on walks. Could that change the price of feeding them Raw..? Gonzo gets 1-3 hours of intense running exercise (like, racing back and fourth across a field or our 1 acre yard) plus dog sports for 4 hours per week, not even counting 2 long walks a day. He is very active, but his metabolism adjusts well and he doesn't require a lot of calories at all. He gets less than 1 lb a day, at 40 lbs, and being extremely active. I do think it depends on the dog... just watch their weight!

About dairy, I think yogurt, cottage cheese, goat milk, goat cheese, eggs, etc, provide a great source of probiotics. No, it isn't exactly "natural" but neither are supplements or pureed veggies :p It is proven to be very nutritional when fed occasionally.

Ok, thanks ^^ I remembered something else, too.
If you feed eggs, do you boil them, just give them to the dog, shell on, or off?

Eggs are given completely raw - shell and all. A lot of people like to crush the shell very finely for their dogs.

I give eggs raw. I only give her the shell if she didn't get any bone that day.

Okay! :D Thank you so much again for the help everyone! If you have anything extra I should know, Please post!

i put the egg, shell & all in the blender.
Once a week or so I will only give them the egg, yolk & white, with no shell, usually because I am lazy & don't want to get the blender out. lol

We got a carton of 18 eggs today, and I plan to sneak one to the dogs. I also looked at the meat prices and discussed feeding Raw more with my mom.

A whole chicken was $2.37.
Beef ranged from $5 +
Turkey I didn't see much of, so I didn't look at the price.
Chicken leg quarters, (I guess a 10 pack) $7.80
So...my mom said that was too expensive. I told her butchers were cheaper.
On the way home..
Me: If you feed Raw it's much healthier.
Mom: I don't get how it's much healthier, why's it better?
Me: Kibble has all sorts of crap in it, and feeding Raw is what dogs were raised from.
Mom: What about Salmonella, E-Coli?
Me: There's been more cases of that in kibble..
Mom: *surprised look*
Haha, I think I'm convincing her! I'm going to ask if I can give the dogs a raw egg each and see if they like it.
Are the prices for the meat high? I thought they were.

LOL! About the price, tell her that if you spend more on the diet, you'll be saving more in vet bills from diseases that could be onset by poor diet ;) That's what I tell people when they say it's too expensive, then they're pretty much speechless. Or they bring up "but it takes too much time" and I say, "but you're spending more time preparing meals instead of at the vet because your dog is sick". And really, once you get in the swing of things and create a routine, it doesn't take up that much time. :)

By the way, the chicken prices sound good, especially for the quarters. It was probably a 10lb bag, in which case it was $.78/lb, very cheap! (Actually sometimes chicken quarters can be as cheap as $.29/lb!!) Beef is generally expensive, so I feed mostly beef heart (usually $.70/lb here) and beef brisket ($.93/lb). All other beef cuts have been way too expensive.

also if you tell butchers what you are getting it for I found many that supply bones for raw feeders for dicounted prices, as the stuff you often want is considered "scraps" that most people dont eat anyway. also check out butchers that hunters go too, we have a butcher just outsiude of town, the hunters bring there kill there for cutting and many times the hunter does not want the bone and this butcher will give the bones and scraps to raw feeders for free. also when you guys buy chicken and turckey for your owner dinner you can by a whole one instead of already cut peices, then you can debone the bird yourself, feed the dogs the bones and no more cokkied ckicken and turkey bones all over the place, you get the breast the the dogs get several meals(1 turkey feeds my 5 dogs for 3 days and 3 people for 2 days) and you get boneless meat and less mess, and no extra cost.

Ahh, ok so the chicken was well priced. Lily LOVED the egg. She didn't like the shell though, but I can expect that since it wasn't ground up or anything. She gobbled it up though, and my mom kept saying I don't think this is a good idea, the shell will cause her an obstruction, blah, blah.. :rolleyes:. I'm going to sneak Roxy an egg with her kibble tonight. At least it's a start. :D

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Originally Posted by .sarah

LOL! About the price, tell her that if you spend more on the diet, you'll be saving more in vet bills from diseases that could be onset by poor diet ;) That's what I tell people when they say it's too expensive, then they're pretty much speechless. Or they bring up "but it takes too much time" and I say, "but you're spending more time preparing meals instead of at the vet because your dog is sick". And really, once you get in the swing of things and create a routine, it doesn't take up that much time. :)

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Exactly! It cuts down on vet bills, skin problems which in turn might mean less bathing & the like, no more brushing teeth, less yard pick up, the lsit can go on & on & on & on.
Besides it's not really THAT much more expensive, it's even cheaper if you have small dogs &/or freezer space to accomidate bulk purchases.

Once you get into the swing of things I think it's actually less time consuming.

Roxy loved the egg, but not the shell, too. She inhaled it :o. Well, licked it, but pretty fast, xD. All I have left to do is get Erica's book, show my mom why Raw is better by making more points when she has excuses (;)), and buying the meat.
Also..
Me:A whole chicken's $2.37.
Mom: A WHOLE CHICKEN?! WTF! (ok she didnt say WTF, but that was her expression :D)
Me: It'd be enough for Roxy, and these right here (I think they were thighs or something) would be enough for Lily.
Mom: Says nothing. Walks off.
^_^

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Originally Posted by Roxyluvsme13

Roxy loved the egg, but not the shell, too. She inhaled it :o. Well, licked it, but pretty fast, xD. All I have left to do is get Erica's book, show my mom why Raw is better by making more points when she has excuses (;)), and buying the meat.
Also..
Me:A whole chicken's $2.37.
Mom: A WHOLE CHICKEN?! WTF! (ok she didnt say WTF, but that was her expression :D)
Me: It'd be enough for Roxy, and these right here (I think they were thighs or something) would be enough for Lily.
Mom: Says nothing. Walks off.
^_^

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A whole chicken will probably feed Roxy twice. And Lilly would probably only need half a thigh. (approx, guessing figuring they are the same size as what is sold in this area)

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Originally Posted by lv4dogs

A whole chicken will probably feed Roxy twice. And Lilly would probably only need half a thigh. (approx, guessing figuring they are the same size as what is sold in this area)

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So that'd feed Roxy 2x and Lily 4x. The thighs were pretty good sized I guess? I think they were $5, so 4 meals for each of them would be about $10.

I would buy the whole chicken and cut off portions for Lily, it'd be much cheaper that way. When you buy cuts of meat you are being charged more for the time that it takes them to cut everything up.

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Originally Posted by .sarah

I would buy the whole chicken and cut off portions for Lily, it'd be much cheaper that way. When you buy cuts of meat you are being charged more for the time that it takes them to cut everything up.

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Okay, so if I bought 2 whole chickens.. I could feed Roxy half of it for one meal, plus maybe an egg or something added in there if I wanted? Then, buy another whole chicken for Lily and give her parts with added egg or veggies or something in there? If only my mom could get convinced and get a new job:(. So... let's say I bought 4 chickens. How many meals would that be for Lily? (saying I split the Chickens betweeen them. 2 for her, 2 for Roxy) Is meat usually cheaper at a butchers?
My mom still has it in her mind that they'll choke on the bones, or that the dogs are going to get sick because of all the crap they put in meat nowadays. I told her dogs have stronger immune systems, but she's still not listening to me!

4 whole chickens (approx 2.5-4lbs/each) will feed ALL 4 of my dogs 2 meals each. And sometimes I even have a thigh or leg or the like left over after 2 meals.

Raustyk weighs 98lbs
Nanook 75lbs
(they get the bigger chickens)

Kaige 52lbs
Indy 62lbs
(they get the smaller chickens)

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Originally Posted by lv4dogs

4 whole chickens (approx 2.5-4lbs/each) will feed ALL 4 of my dogs 2 meals each. And sometimes I even have a thigh or leg or the like left over after 2 meals.

Raustyk weighs 98lbs
Nanook 75lbs
(they get the bigger chickens)

Kaige 52lbs
Indy 62lbs
(they get the smaller chickens)

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They should last a little while then, since Roxy's smaller than Kaige, and Lily's a midget compared to them.