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I can SO sympathise.
My son is thirteen, and has a major attitude as well as being one big raging ball of hormones.
I wish you could neuter children, like you can neuter dogs. ;)
And I'm sure the worst is yet to come. *sigh*
I should have gotten my tubes tied when I was fifteen!
Sounds like a boot camp program or outward bound . They have to learn to take care of themselves and the "team". These are usually in the wilderness where there is no where to run to. (kinda of the farm thing) I have a girl freind who has worked at one for years in the summer(winters shes a college prof) she has told me tons of terrfic stories of kids and how they change. They should look in to one of these programs, the cost is worth it as it could save this kid.
Twister keep him intrested in hunting and fishing (away from girls ) it helps . I kept my son fishing a lot, I froze my fanny off many days just to keep him busy. He still at 21 doesn't have a girl friend as he is unempolyed right now and knows I won't bank roll dates. My kids didn't get allowances they had a chart of chores that they got marked off and each job had an amount attached to it. They earned there money the more chores on the chart the more money on pay days.
I had a suspicion about the ADHD. I know SO MANY kids with it and have ADD myself. And if he has additional 'co-morbid' disorders with it, like 'Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Conduct Disorder, and possible Bipolar Disorder' as you said, (Which is VERY common) that makes it even tougher to control.
Two of the biggest problems with these disorders is that they involve an imbalance of brain chemicals, of which there is no reliable way to test, measure or monitor. Dosing of medication is something you just have to try and often have to adjust, almost constantly. With multiple disorders, the different medicines required can cause their own problems. The other thing is that you're dealing with TEENAGERs - who are unpredictable at best and totally out of control at worst, even WITHOUT any kind of disorder or disability.
Now there are loads of people who 'don't believe' in these disorders - they think that 'discipline' or a 'good kick in the pants' is all the 'cure' a kid like this needs. There are others who think that tossing medication at the kid is going to 'solve' the problem.
Neither will work, and both are necessary. you need medication, consistant behavior plans, coping skills and LOADS of patience.
The really frustrating thing is that just as soon as you think you've worked something out and come to some kind of plateu, where parents and teachers can take a breather - those nasty hormones kick in or something else happens, and the entire precarious balance is toppled and you have to start all over again.
What works today is useless tomorrow. It's EXTREMEMLY frustrating for the kid and everyone around him.
I have always been EXTREMELY lucky in that my son's ADHD never took an agressive, defiant or violent form, as many do. I was always able to channel his impulsive, loud, rambunctious tendancies into more constructive outlets - and was able to see when he was 'overloading' and remove him from situations before they got out of control for him. Because I've been a single parent, since he was 2 - I've been able to give him the attention he needed and spent alot of time feeding his need for stimulation - camping trips, museums, parks, exploring, building stuff. And when Jon truly is trying and people get frustrated with him - I fight for him tooth and nail. When he slacks off, and DOESN'T try, I sympathise, but I STILL hold him accountable.
since I know how it feels to have my own head out of control with ADD - I understand what these kids go thru. it isn't something THEY can control - the impulsivity of ADD is just THERE. sometimes it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion - you see it happening, know it's happening to YOU, and you're helpless to do anything about it. Things that are simple for 'normal' people, like showing up on time, remembering to turn in assignments, knowing where you left your keys - these things take ENOURMOUS effort for people with ADD - some days are better than others, and it gets extrememly tiring just to get thru life.
My son is currently tanking three courses in High school, mostly because those teachers would not make the effort to communicate with me early, and directly when he first missed assignments, and did not take me seriously when I warned them and his counselor that Tristan's Cancer and immenent death was going to destroy any fragile balance Jon had for awhile. Our dog, Tristan, was truly like my child and Jon's brother, and for the months before and after his death, Jon did almost NO homework, failed tests, and missed alot of school, simply from depression of losing Tristan.
I was dealing with some depression issues myself, and since no one was complaining, I assumed Jon was OK. Wrong.
I don't know why people, especially adult teachers, can be so stupid - just because Jon wasn't bleeding all over the floor or throwing fits every day, didn't mean his heart wasn't torn apart at losing his best friend! how is he supposed to concentrate on conjugating Spanish verbs when he is in such pain?
this kid is 'throwing fits' BECAUSE he's lost control. I don't know the whole situation - but I'm willing to bet that there were signs before the fit in WalMart that he was on edge.
You don't take a toddler into a fancy restaurant when it's supposed to be naptime and he's tired and hungy; you KNOW the kid is going to end up screaming and no one is going to have a good time.
Similarly, with ADD kids, you watch for signs that they are 'on the edge' and REMOVE them from the situation. Eventually, you can teach THEM to watch for the signs themselves and teach them to avoid potential problems themselves. Until then, they don't have the coping skills and the maturity to control themselves.
it sounds like this family is doing everything they can. I'll certainly add them to my prayers, as I can truly feel for what they are going thru.
Laura
Laura I hope you didn't think I ment to tos meds or disciplne . I know these things excist and are serius matters. The programs I mentioned work with the kids meds but it gets them away from the Busyness that causes the over stemulaton . Then they can find the place in themselves to go when overwhelmed. It also reinforces their selfconfidence that these disorders rob them of. I know i had a hyperactive(add) son and I have dislexia so I know you have to rebuild the self esteem.
Soaplet
This poor boy being gifted too must be so frustrated finding the outlet for his frustraton is so needed. Is there something he does well and enjoys that could be used to focus his attention on? And be used to encourage him in.
That sounds like alot of the behavior that I had when I was a teen. I went from being a cute athlete and student body president with straight A's to a total loser who only dressed in grunge. I got new loser friends and dropped my old preppy ones. I wound up attempting suicide and getting into drugs. Looking back, I cannot believe that my mother and the school didn't see the warning signs. I strongly suggest counseling right away. They really need to get to the bottom of what is upsetting him.
BTW, I've done alot of reading and classes on ADHD and a few other disorders because my son has ADHD and OCD. IMO, 'Oppositional Defiant Disorder' sounds like bs. I read a book about it, it seems like one of those things that they're just trying to slap another label out there. I can see someone being so hyper or so depressed that it affects their behavior, therefor causing them to be defiant. But I do not believe that there is a specific disorder in the brain that causes defiance. EVERYONE knows right from wrong.
I read a few of your posts, I'm to tired to read them all, but I will be sure to come back tomorrow. It sounds like you are really on top of things with this kid. I totally agree that he needs to be tested. My mother had me seeing doctors because I was tired all the time. Well, one of the doctors did a series of tests and called my mom and told her that I tested positive for drugs. She told him no way, not her sweet little girl. She never even brought it up to me until I was an adult.
I sure wish you were in California to help me with my son! You sound very knowledgeable.
"I wish you could neuter children, like you can neuter dogs."
LOL! --:rolleyes:
i know you don't REALLY mean that - if that were true, you'd loose the sweet revenge of GRANDCHILDREN that torment your KIDS, just as your kids tormented YOU!
LOL!
Corrina - no offense taken. I agree, meds AND discipline are a core part of reaching these kids - but too many people think that that is ALL they have to do - like the meds are a 'cure' or discipline (some people use the word 'discipline when they mean 'punishment) will 'teach them a lesson'. ADHD, ODD or whatever is not something you can 'fix' and be done with. it's something that exists in that person FOREVER, and is ongoing thru their whole life.
(people used to think that ADHD only happened in boys, and only in kids, but what happens is that those who 'survived' to be apparently 'normal' adults learned coping skills to deal with the 'normal' world. Out of school, the things that make ADDer's such annoying kids, can be channeled into creative carreers. IF they're lucky)
Camps, outward bound, etc are great. So many of these kids don't see in THEMSELVES that they are worth saving - esp when they are surrounded by so-called 'friends' and environments (school) that support that failing self image. Teens are very cruel pack animals. That's why I'm all for getting a kid totally out of his familiar territory and with NEW people that don't judge him on his past and support him into sliding back into familiar (and bad) habits.
Tonya -
"EVERYONE knows right from wrong." - you said you were tired and couldn't read the entire thread - so I'm hoping this was just a short statement that you really didn't mean the way it sounded.
'EVERYONE' does NOT "know" right from wrong - I spend ALOT of time with teens, and it's amazing how many don't have a clue what's 'right' and what's 'wrong'. What is even sadder, is that, unlike this boy's parents, there are so very many kids whose parents just don't care enough to teach right from wrong, if they even know themselves.
As for 'believing' in a disorder, just because YOU don't understand something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. (I don't understand quantum mechanics,either - but they still exist!)
It's true that alot of understanding how the mind works is baised on observation, and things that can't be extracted, examined, and measured - psychology will never be an 'exact' science. But I KNOW kids with severe ODD - you ask them if they want an ice cream cone and they shout "NO" while reaching for the cone with eager eyes!
What a childs disability is, I'm not qualified to tell - but believe me - when you live or work with one of these kids every day, and if you truly care about the child - you come to 'believe' - real quick. There is no other logical explaination. No one would 'choose' to have ANY of these disabilities!
That being said, you can't use a diagnosis as an excuse for a kid to run wild over others - only as a basis for taking steps in treating and correcting behavior.
and in the end, there are no guarantees that whatever we do, it will turn out OK for them as adults.
laura
I am sorry. I think I was so tired that I didn't really word myself well. The book that I read didn't even mention scenarios like what you said above. That puts it into another perspective for me. The book that I read made it sound more like a cop out for bad behavior. Basically as if all criminals have ODD.Quote:
Originally posted by LauraT7
It's true that alot of understanding how the mind works is baised on observation, and things that can't be extracted, examined, and measured - psychology will never be an 'exact' science. But I KNOW kids with severe ODD - you ask them if they want an ice cream cone and they shout "NO" while reaching for the cone with eager eyes!
I guess I was being hypocritical because I get offended when people say that ADHD is an excuse, that my son just needs more training. I basically did the same thing.
Anyways, I'm dead tired once again. (Thanks to my newborn!) So I'll stop rambling, hope I make a little more sense today. Thanks for the correction, Laura, I appologize.
Do any of you know of any specific "working farms" or "wilderness ranches" that this boy could possibly be sent to that would help him out? His parents aren't wealthy and can't afford a lot, which is the biggest problem with attempting to find something like this............ :confused:
I don't know about specific opportunities, but I do know that every camp i've ever worked with will offer 'camperships' or 'scholarships' to help fund attendance. all you have to do is ask.
If you find a camp, don't turn it down without asking about camperships, first!
laura