Screaming dad

[Marigold2]

Yesterday I was in Kohl's buying Easter dresses for Ella and I saw a family with 4 kids. Mom, Dad and three boys. One boy was just being a stinker he was about seven, the dad grabbed him by the face and dragged him away. When they returned I said to him IF YOU DO THAT AGAIN I WILL CALL THE AUTHORITIES. He got right into my face and said YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. I just repeated what I said again. His wife said, What did you do? She looked disgusted and scared. The oldest boys looked shocked and frozen. I told the people at Kohl's and they were watching out for him. Hopefully the camara caught Mr. I am going to abuse my kids while shopping.
I felt so bad for those kids. I should have done more but the guy was really in my face and I thought for a second he was going to hit me. Geez what is it with people?
Anyway I found two beautiful dresses one pink and one purple plus socks for my little Ella who only wants to wear dresses now and be a princess.
Little fashion princess. Her GG is only to happy to dress her.

[Freedom]

Good for you standing up for those boys!

"The oldest boys looked shocked and frozen. " He was learning something, that is why he was in such a state. GOOD FOR YOU!!!

Will we get to see photos of Ella in her dresses? They sound gorgeous! She will be all set for the Easter Parade!

[happylabs]

This guy was most likely at his wits end. What he should have done was just walk away on his own and regroup. It isn't easy shopping with 3 kids. I had 2, but that is no excuse to abuse your child in any way, shape or form. The guy obviously has no parenting skills.

Hopefully, your confronting him will make him think twice about acting that way again.

[moosmom]

I would've done the exact same thing. As much as the kid was a stinker, I feel bad for I'm SURE what was coming to him when he got home. I'm glad you stood up, Marigold!

[Lady's Human]

I'm fairly sure that if I had someone interfere with me with my children you'd get the same result. I don't take kindly to outside interference.

[Karen]

But as bad as a certain nephew can be, I don't think I've ever seen you drag him anywhere by the face!

[Lady's Human]

Face, no. Shoulder, yes.

Have an issue with something? Call the police.

IF you're going to confront me,, guess what? You'll get your confrontation. In spades.

IN addition, how intelligent is it to walk up to an evidently obviously irate individual and say something to make the situation worse?

It just defies common sense.

[Lady's Human]

In addition, I continue to love the blanket judgement of someone's parenting skills from a 10 second snapshot of one day.

You're not him, you don't know what else has been going on that day. Ever think he might have been a good person having a really lousy day?

I know we're all perfect here, but it does happen.

[Marigold2]

I was not worried about myself at first. I was worried about the screaming child. His dad was hurting him. I stated in a calm voice that I would call the authorities. He then EXPLODED. And yes right there in the middle of the girls clothing section I got scared, he was inches from my face and very very angry.
I cannot stand by and let a child be abused. A dog, an elderly person. I can't it is not who I am. I will step in to help. His explosion surprised and scared me badly. I was shaken and it made me feel so very very bad for the kids. Is this what their life was like all the time? How sad. As I said I notified the store clerks several of them and I am sure they have him on film abusing his child. Perhaps the store detective could do something or perhaps the police were called by a clerk.
This was one scary dud. Really really scary.
God help those kids and the mom.
Dragging a child away by the hair and the side of the face till they scream out in pain. That is sick.

[sana]

That was seriously wrong of the father, kids are kids, they are little stinkers at first, let them grow up a little, I mean especially boys, they aren't the sweetest kids around usually. Boys are meant to be hard and noisy, its in their nature. He should have scolded him when he would have returned home, just be patient for the moment. Kids feel bad and angry towards their parents if they are scolded in public. The father should have been patient for the moment. My nephew is really a bad kid at times, but, he needs to be taken aside and then scolded. And grabbing by the face is seriously wrong, he could have carried him or grabbed him by the arm and then taken him aside and told him if, he did anotehr thing wrong, he'd be in trouble *at home* not in public... :eek::eek::eek:

And about the dresses, waiting to see them!! I really like purple and pink! :):)

[Marigold2]

Here they are, sorry the light is not good. The picture does not do the pink dress justice.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r286/Marigold2/001.jpg

[Marigold2]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r286/Marigold2/002-1.jpg

[Marigold2]

It was late to be shopping for Easter dresses. I will ship them on Monday.
I bought the most fun talking Thomas the Train Book for grandson.
The thing about buying dresses for girls is there are usually so many. Not when I went but usually tons and tons. The problem is to not buy 10 at a time.

[wombat2u2004]

I cannot stand by and let a child be abused. A dog, an elderly person. I can't it is not who I am. I will step in to help.

But isn't that you exerting your expectations on others ???

[moosmom]

Whatever kind of day that father was having is still no excuse for removing his child from the store the way he did.

I have an example of parental stupidity...I worked at Petco. An idiotic mother stood by while her 3 year old brat (in every sense of the word, I might add) pulled a step stool over to the tanks with the mice and rats and began banging (not tapping, mind you) on the glass of the tanks. I politely went over to him and asked him to please get down (his @$$hat mother just stood there and watched) and he started screaming and spitting at me. I gently lifted him down so as not to huirt him. The biatch starts screaming at me, proceeds to put her kid in a shopping cart and WHEELED HIM BACK OVER TO BANG ON THE GLASS!!!!

She look like the type of parent that would sue should something happen to their kid because of THEIR own stupidity.

She complained to the manager about it. I told him flat out that I was protecting those animals from that kid. He told me I shouldn't have put my hands on him. True, but still, I was SOOOOOO pissed!!!

Another reason why I can't stand kids anymore. Lately the parents just don't own it, allowing their kids to create havoc.

[pomtzu]

IMO, kids who are known to act up or be "stinkers" while in a store with adults, should be left at home in the care of another adult or babysitter - or let one of the parents just stay home with them. I had 2 rambunctious boys, but neither ever misbehaved or threw temper tantrums in a store (or any place be it public or private) - not even once. Even if they had tried it - they would have stopped real quick when they got "the look" from myself or their father. Store patrons shouldn't have to listen to screaming, crying, misbehaving kids, or the parents that scream at them either. I never shop on weekends anymore, since the parents are out of work, the kids are out of school, and that's when you find the majority in the stores. Give me a nice quiet Tuesday morning any old day - it's so peaceful then!!! :D


ETA: I would never confront a parent - woman or man - since you don't know what this person is capable of. Why put yourself in potential harm's way, when you can just bring it to the attention of a store employee, and they can in turn, bring it to the attention of store security. Need proof?? - I think just about everyone has a camera cell phone - just shoot a pic. I'll be darned if 5 foot 100 pound me, wants to deal with an irate amazon parent!

[Bonny]

IMO, kids who are known to act up or be "stinkers" while in a store with adults, should be left at home in the care of another adult or babysitter - or let one of the parents just stay home with them. I had 2 rambunctious boys, but neither ever misbehaved or threw temper tantrums in a store (or any place be it public or private) - not even once. Even if they had tried it - they would have stopped real quick when they got "the look" from myself or their father. Store patrons shouldn't have to listen to screaming, crying, misbehaving kids, or the parents that scream at them either. I never shop on weekends anymore, since the parents are out of work, the kids are out of school, and that's when you find the majority in the stores. Give me a nice quiet Tuesday morning any old day - it's so peaceful then!!! :D

We are Tuesday morning shoppers. I pick Tuesday also & that is when the shelves are restocked.

At the museum we have screaming kids. I have gotten to the point telling the parents if they are up & walking around & grabbing stuff it is a no no. I warn them ahead a time. I tell them one of you will end up leaving the tour with your child (children). It happened on Friday. The mom was interested the husband ended up taking the 3 & 4 year old out to their van. It happens all the time. Common sense is out there somewhere.

[sana]

Lovely dresses! :D Really pretty and nice! :)

My parents and I used to go to a store, sometimes still go, on Sundays, kids under 10, I think aren't allowed. But, there's another store I used to go to, it was quite noisy and you had to be careful while pushing your trolley so little kids don't come under it, it was loaded with kids and I really preferred the store without kids. Much peaceful. :) There are some stores that have a kids area. Like the store named Metro, the one that doesn't allowed kids under 10, if it is really necessary, there's an eating room, kids go there and eat stuff, I guess there might be toys because I haven't went in there. That's the way stores should be, peaceful that way. :)

Some parents don't stop their kids at all and some stop them on every single thing they do. On the extremes....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Medusa]

I went to lunch today w/girlfriends, an upscale place that is for adults. A family brought their small child, I'd say around age 4 but I'm not sure. We weren't even seated yet and we asked to be moved. That kid screamed such a high pitched scream, it's a wonder dogs didn't come running. And she kept it up w/no reprimand from anyone at the table. She wasn't crying, just screaming b/c she wasn't getting her way about something. (I know this b/c I heard Mom (I think it was her mom) say "I said 'no'".) She stood up on the chair and let 'er rip. Management moved us and never did say anything to the adults at that table. That's not what I call a reprimand from Mom and it certainly isn't teaching the child anything except if you scream loud enough and long enough, you'll get your way.

I'm not anti-kid. I used to be one. And if I had behaved like that in public or anywhere, it would've been the last time my parents would've taken me to a restaurant and the same goes for my son. I would never tolerate such behavior. However, there's a way to discipline kids, especially ones that aren't being bad but just being rambunctious kids and grabbing them by the face is not the way. I've bitten my tongue more often than not when kids act up in public but if I should see one being manhandled like that, I'll have to speak up. I'm not one for meddling in the business of others, especially when it comes to child rearing. I'm also not one to stand by and watch a child, animal or elderly person be abused, neglected or humiliated. It makes my heart sore to see such things and I could never live w/myself if I didn't speak up.

[cassiesmom]

I saw a family with 4 kids. Mom, Dad and three boys. One boy was just being a stinker he was about seven, the dad grabbed him by the face and dragged him away.

I don't think it is okay for an adult to drag a 7 year old by the face under any circumstances. Except, maybe, his clothes are on fire.

And Wom, I impose my expectations on others every time I go out in public, and others place expectations on me. One of those is appropriate behavior. Subjecting one's child to such "discipline" in a public place far exceeds the boundaries of appropriate behavior for me. Even if you're having a bad day, as Moosmom said, that's still no excuse for the father to act the way he did. I might have said something like hey, take it easy to the father but I'm with Marigold-- I'm not able to stand by silently and witness something like this.

[Medusa]

And Wom, I impose my expectations on others every time I go out in public, and others place expectations on me. One of those is appropriate behavior.

Excellent point!

[wombat2u2004]

I don't think it is okay for an adult to drag a 7 year old by the face under any circumstances. Except, maybe, his clothes are on fire.

And Wom, I impose my expectations on others every time I go out in public, and others place expectations on me. One of those is appropriate behavior. Subjecting one's child to such "discipline" in a public place far exceeds the boundaries of appropriate behavior for me. Even if you're having a bad day, as Moosmom said, that's still no excuse for the father to act the way he did. I might have said something like hey, take it easy to the father but I'm with Marigold-- I'm not able to stand by silently and witness something like this.

No, by doing this you are trying to influence others to your standards. I'm with LH on this. You have no idea what the reasons were for that fathers reactions.
For a start, it is illegal to do what you condone. It is not illegal for someone to chastise their child.
You are viewing this as some sort of child abuse, whereas it may have simply been a discipline lesson. And it may have been the only way the father knows how to discipline his own child.

[Medusa]

it may have been the only way the father knows how to discipline his own child.

If that's the case, then he needs to take some serious classes in parenting, Wom. Discipline is acceptable and encouraged, whether in public or private. Grabbing a kid by the face? Come on now.

[wombat2u2004]

If that's the case, then he needs to take some serious classes in parenting, Wom. Discipline is acceptable and encouraged, whether in public or private. Grabbing a kid by the face? Come on now.

And what would he learn from his "Serious classes in parenting" ??
Someone elses interpretation of the right way to parent ???
Generalisations that are shoved down our throats daily by educated idiots who change their minds weekly on how to parent or anything else that suits their view on how others should live their lives ???
Hey, it's his business how he disciplines his own child, not anyone elses.

[Medusa]

And what would he learn from his "Serious classes in parenting" ??
Someone elses interpretation of the right way to parent ???
Generalisations that are shoved down our throats daily by educated idiots who change their minds weekly on how to parent or anything else that suits their view on how others should live their lives ???
Hey, it's his business how he disciplines his own child, not anyone elses.

I agree w/you to a point about it being his business on how he disciplines his kids. Disciplines. Not abuses. As for the parenting class, he may learn some self control himself. He can't very well teach his kid self control if he himself loses it. I think we've probably all lost control at some time but not to that degree. Ask yourself how you'd feel if someone, especially someone much bigger than you, grabbed your face and dragged you off. In public. I'd be humiliated and probably scared to death.

[Cataholic]

I would have said something, too. Abuse is abuse is abuse. No matter what excuse the adult might have had (a bad day, really?????), abuse is abuse is abuse. It should never be tolerated.

[wombat2u2004]

I agree w/you to a point about it being his business on how he disciplines his kids. Disciplines. Not abuses.

But your interpretation of abuse may not be the same as his.
After all, he is the childs father, and probably the kid was a real work of art. It's not as if the father picked the child up and started bashing him on the wall or something like that.
Being a bit heavy handed with some kids is sometimes the only answer.

[Medusa]

One of the most difficult lessons I've had to learn in life as an adult is to act and not react. The father reacted to his child's bad behavior rather than acting as an adult and calmly but firmly removing him from the scene until he calmed down. I do understand what you mean, though, Wom, about our interpretation of abuse. I got spanked as a child. Today that's considered abuse, though I don't see it that way. I do hope, however, that grabbing your kid's face is never acceptable "discipline".

[wombat2u2004]

One of the most difficult lessons I've had to learn in life as an adult is to act and not react. The father reacted to his child's bad behavior rather than acting as an adult and calmly but firmly removing him from the scene until he calmed down. I do understand what you mean, though, Wom, about our interpretation of abuse. I got spanked as a child. Today that's considered abuse, though I don't see it that way. I do hope, however, that grabbing your kid's face is never acceptable "discipline".

I used to get spanked to, and my father used to say to me how lucky I was, because he used to cop it with a horse switch. My father was raised right in his opinion, and I was raised right in my opinion. I can look back now and say "Yeah, I was a real little creep and deserved what I got."
So, really what is abuse ??? Was my father abused ?? Was I abused ??? Were you abused with your spankings ??? They answer in my opinion is no. But in others opinions it may be yes.
So what is really happening in this day and age ??? We obviously have become softer in our approach to disciplinary punishment, and we have replaced that with counselling and parenting classes ??? Do you believe that the children now become better adults because of this ??? I don't believe so.
Children need to be disciplined and taught the right direction in life.
The old saying "Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind" is what works.

[moosmom]

Pomtzu,

Take a picture with your phone of the abuse is a great idea!!!! Then show the dumb@$$ parents the picture and tell them if the abuse doesn't stop, it's going straight to the authorities. I like that!!!!!

[Medusa]

I used to get spanked to, and my father used to say to me how lucky I was, because he used to cop it with a horse switch. My father was raised right in his opinion, and I was raised right in my opinion. I can look back now and say "Yeah, I was a real little creep and deserved what I got."
So, really what is abuse ??? Was my father abused ?? Was I abused ??? Were you abused with your spankings ??? They answer in my opinion is no. But in others opinions it may be yes.
So what is really happening in this day and age ??? We obviously have become softer in our approach to disciplinary punishment, and we have replaced that with counselling and parenting classes ??? Do you believe that the children now become better adults because of this ??? I don't believe so.
Children need to be disciplined and taught the right direction in life.
The old saying "Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind" is what works.

I can't say that I disagree w/all you've said in this post, Wom. We have become too soft in our approach to discipline but I don't think that going in the opposite direction is the answer either. Moderation is the key for me. As for parenting classes, I said that rather tongue-in-cheek. I think that the time to take those classes, if ever, if BEFORE you have kids, not after.

[Queen of Poop]

I'd say whip out the cell phone, take a video and let it go viral. Then dad can deal with the fallout of his actions.

[moosmom]

I was threatened with a good beating if I didn't stay on the straight and narrow. That was WAY back in the 50's and 60's...LONG before kids could call DCF on their parents. Nowadays you even LOOK at a kid wrong, they can call DCF.

The one thing I've always said was children need to come with instructions. My Dad's philosopy was that when I grew up and had kids of my own, I'd understand WHY he did what he did. Yeah, right.

[Cataholic]

Spanking a young child on the bottom is a far cry from using a whip, grabbing a child by his/her face, and 'beating'. There is discipline and there is abuse. The OP saw it, and made a determination as to what camp she placed it. Frankly, that is good enough for me.

I wouldn't grab my animal by his/her face, I wouldn't take a stick, a whip or any other instrument to my animal's body, WHY is it appropriate to do so to a C.H.I.L.D.

To coin a phrase I heard elsewhere, "When we know better, we do better".

"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". Edmund Burke.

[cassiesmom]

And it may have been the only way the father knows how to discipline his own child.

That's a really good point.

I was at the supermarket on Saturday and I heard a mom tell her child -- who was maybe 4(??)- "Thank you for not using your outside voice while we were in the store." I thought that was kind of a funny thing to say to a child, hard for him to understand, but maybe not. The store was super busy and very crowded. I like what Ikea in Schaumburg does-- they have a monitored play area within the store for kids. I wish the supermarket did.

[Cataholic]

That's a really good point.


So, if slapping my child across his face is the only thing I know to do when he sasses me, is that correct? What about if locking him in his closet was what MY parent did to me, should I do that to him? No. I should get professional help if the only way I know to treat my child is to abuse my child. It is up to YOU (the general you, not you you) to do better, to read, to learn, to talk, to listen. In fact, perhaps Marigold's comments to this man will be enough for him to re-think his ways. Not at the moment, but later, when he cools off.



I was at the supermarket on Saturday and I heard a mom tell her child -- who was maybe 4(??)- "Thank you for not using your outside voice while we were in the store." I thought that was kind of a funny thing to say to a child, hard for him to understand, but maybe not.

Actually, according to child rearing experts (of which I am not) this IS the right way to raise your child- with positive reinforcement for the RIGHT choices. Like dog training- reward the wanted behaviour, and ignore the unwanted behavior.

[cassiesmom]

So, if slapping my child across his face is the only thing I know to do when he sasses me, is that correct? What about if locking him in his closet was what MY parent did to me, should I do that to him? No. I should get professional help if the only way I know to treat my child is to abuse my child. It is up to YOU (the general you, not you you) to do better, to read, to learn, to talk, to listen. In fact, perhaps Marigold's comments to this man will be enough for him to re-think his ways. Not at the moment, but later, when he cools off.
That's what I was thinking. If I don't know what else to do, then I need to find a way to learn.




Actually, according to child rearing experts (of which I am not) this IS the right way to raise your child- with positive reinforcement for the RIGHT choices. Like dog training- reward the wanted behaviour, and ignore the unwanted behavior.
It just sounded confusing to me when she said it. But I was looking at my grocery list, trying to figure out what I still needed and where to find it, the store was crowded, and I heard her.

[wombat2u2004]

That's a really good point.

I was at the supermarket on Saturday and I heard a mom tell her child -- who was maybe 4(??)- "Thank you for not using your outside voice while we were in the store." I thought that was kind of a funny thing to say to a child, hard for him to understand, but maybe not. The store was super busy and very crowded. I like what Ikea in Schaumburg does-- they have a monitored play area within the store for kids. I wish the supermarket did.

I remember the "Ball Room" very well at Ikea. It's a great idea.
But I also remember once when my two girls were very young and were playing in it, and there was a boy bullying another little boy. The offending child was removed and his mother contacted to come get him. I can remember the mother saying to the child "Honey, you know you are not supposed to do that." Positive reinforcement ??? No way. If the child knows that whatever he chooses to do is only met with that from his mother, then he will simply do what he wants in future.
Any lesson learnt, would have been because someone actually kicked him out of that ballroom.....and NOT from his mother.
The punishment must fit the crime. It is simply the only way a child can learn a lesson. and the punishment must be meted out by the parent, no-one else.
And if you think that a "Honey, don't do that again" works better than a hard slap on the butt and a promise that there's no ball room unless ya get your act together, then yer all barking up the wrong tree.
And folks, I have PROOF of this. My own three girls are living PROOF of this.

[moosmom]

they have a monitored play area within the store for kids. I wish the supermarket did.

They did have one when I was growing up. At Motts Supermarket, it was the magazine rack!!!!:p

Because of the way I was raised, "spare the rod, spoil the child mentality", my daughter was never touched. I used positive reinforcement and rewards for good behavior as well. My daughter is now a beautiful, 35 year old woman about to be married to the love of her life, and becoming the stepmother to my beautiful step-grandson, Cody, who will be walking ME down the isle!!!!!

[Cataholic]

Positive reinforcement wins out over abuse any day. Sometimes, people simply don't have the necessary skill set to be a parent. And while not all children that were abused go on to abuse their own children, it is a higher percentage that do.

[Catty1]

QOP - I like that idea!:D

[Lady's Human]

Wom, for countless millenia people have been raising children incorrectly.

Thousands (if not more) years of practical experience is wrong. The professor in the ivory tower is, of course, more intelligent than all of us.

[mrspunkysmom]

For a start, it is illegal to do what you condone. It is not illegal for someone to chastise their child.

Part 1:

In the U.S. it can be. If a parent uses force to discipline their child in a public school, we are required to report the incident to child services. Not doing so can result in your teaching license being revoked in South Carolina. We are also required to report when a child tells us there is abuse in the home.

[mrspunkysmom]

Part 2:

My mother could be abusive and cruel at times. However, she never disciplined us in public, feeling that was demeaning to the child. When we got home, it was a different story. She gave us a look and we were miserable the rest of the outing because we knew we would get a tongue lashing as well as a paddling or a grounding when we got home.

We had to be tweaked about once per year, maybe twice some years. We were reprimanded on a regular basis, but outrageous behavior was a yearly rite of passage.

[mrspunkysmom]

Part 3:

As a teacher, I can tell you that many parents mean well, but do not know how to discipline. I often wonder if fear of "big brother" has had an impact on this.

I am against corporal punishment, especially for teenagers and pre-teens. I do believe that consistent discipline brings out the desired behavior.

However, I have met families where all but one of the children did right, followed the rules, etc. That one child broke the rules just to break them. And the parent might have to resort to more stringent measures to keep the child in line.

My mother never had to go to school for my youngest brother and I. We flew under the radar naturally. This is the one that I visit, who is a chief of security for a Mall (also a certified policemen in NC). The middle one was born demanding his way and approached life with the idea "I might get in trouble." Mother had to resort to draconian measures to keep him in line. So instead of being a chief or problem fixer for a Mafia house, he is an executive with a Fortune 100 company. :cool:

This company is a financial services company, so the mafia description night not be too far off the mark. :p

If I saw abuse I might say something, but I know that I have to consider the I might not know everything about that situation.

[Prairie Purrs]

To this day, my mother thinks she just spanked my sister and me a bit when it was absolutely necessary.

She used to break wooden spoons over our rear ends. I had bruises from my lower back to the backs of my knees. She was still hitting me when I was in my teens. The psychological damage persists to this day--and I'm in my 50s.

Someone who hauls a kid away by the face in public has to be doing worse in private. If he did that to an adult, it would be considered assault and battery. Why is it acceptable if the victim is a child?

I'm a big fan of teaching one's children to behave. But violence is not an acceptable means.

[wombat2u2004]

Wom, for countless millenia people have been raising children incorrectly.

Thousands (if not more) years of practical experience is wrong. The professor in the ivory tower is, of course, more intelligent than all of us.

True.
Actually, I feel pretty bad as a parent for disciplining my children with the palm of my hand when they needed it. (This of course, can only be construed as horrific child abuse by the experts.)
And of course, I will feel fully responsible if one of my daughters does the same to one of my grandchildren. Yes, I will take that shame with me to the grave.

"Positive reinforcement wins out over abuse any day" How profound is that statement ?? I reckon that could be the catchcry for the new millenium.
Of course if the writer is alive long enough to see the results of that statement, they could always say "Well it's not my fault. I only listened to the experts." :D:D

I think I'd better phone daughter No.2 tonight, and ask her to switch her doctorate from SIDS research to Child Abuse research. There's gotta be more money in that for her PLUS an honourable position in the ivory tower. :p:p

[wombat2u2004]

Part 1:

In the U.S. it can be. If a parent uses force to discipline their child in a public school, we are required to report the incident to child services. Not doing so can result in your teaching license being revoked in South Carolina. We are also required to report when a child tells us there is abuse in the home.

Well yeah, but as they say "The apple rots from the core" ;)

[moosmom]

To this day, my mother thinks she just spanked my sister and me a bit when it was absolutely necessary.

She used to break wooden spoons over our rear ends. I had bruises from my lower back to the backs of my knees. She was still hitting me when I was in my teens. The psychological damage persists to this day--and I'm in my 50s.

Someone who hauls a kid away by the face in public has to be doing worse in private. If he did that to an adult, it would be considered assault and battery. Why is it acceptable if the victim is a child?

I'm a big fan of teaching one's children to behave. But violence is not an acceptable means.

My father's weapon of choice was his belt. And I also suffer to this day with PTSD and other psychological issues because of it. But it also taught me a great lesson that a child should not fear their parents. And that is what I've instilled in my daughter. I have ALWAYS told her she could come to me for ANYTHING, and she always has. She knows that whatever she tells me (even problems with her Dad and stepmom) will stay with me to my grave. That's the kind of bond I have always wanted with my parents but never got. Another addage of my dad's was "Don't do as I do, do as I SAY".

[Cataholic]

I would imagine most of us know the difference between abuse and discipline. And, I think those that seek to twist the words of others are only looking to assuage their own guilt. Or, are drunk, as I have presumed in the past.

LH- you seem to be taking this differently than I would have expected. I can't imagine you take a foreign object to your child, in the name of "discipline". Can't imagine it. While the drunk seems to blur the line between abuse and discipline- I can't believe that you do. Not from the years of posts I have seen from you.

Perhaps you struggle with another adult butting into your parenting arena. And, on the surface, I would normally agree with you. BUT, I can't believe you (or your wife) would stand by idly (is that spelled correctly???) if either of you saw a man remove a child from the area- by the child's face. Maybe you wouldn't have intervened....maybe...but, to think you two wouldn't have raised an eyebrow? I don't believe it.

There have always been different ways to parent a child. And, I think all parents are allowed to do so in the way they see fit, as long as it doesn't cross any lines. The lines may be blurry- but, removing a child- by its face- is clearly on one side of it. Maybe the man doesn't do this all the time (we can hope), but the fact remains most of us let our hair down in private.

To hear from others on this board that they still- to this day- suffer from the psychological damage of abuse, and attempt to negate those feelings with "its the best he could do", or "my child turned out fine"- is demeaning, demoralizing and insensitive.

When we know better, we do better.

[Lady's Human]

I don't struggle with another adult butting into parenting. It's very simple, I won't allow it. Someone attempts to correct or advise me on parenting in the manner done by the OP better call the police prior to acting, they're going to need them.

It amazes me that the perfect people on this board still feel fit to judge someone's actions and life from a 10 second snapshot which may or may not have been accurately posted online.

[wombat2u2004]

I don't struggle with another adult butting into parenting. It's very simple, I won't allow it. Someone attempts to correct or advise me on parenting in the manner done by the OP better call the police prior to acting, they're going to need them.

It amazes me that the perfect people on this board still feel fit to judge someone's actions and life from a 10 second snapshot which may or may not have been accurately posted online.

Right on !!!!
Hey, don't ya get kinda sick of these people who think they have some sort of God given right to shove their ideals down ya throat in a shopping centre ?? Isn't there some other way they can save the world ???
I'd like to see a few of them get belted one, for not minding their own business.
Wanna beer ??? May as well. Hee hee.

[Cataholic]

I don't struggle with another adult butting into parenting. It's very simple, I won't allow it. Someone attempts to correct or advise me on parenting in the manner done by the OP better call the police prior to acting, they're going to need them.

It amazes me that the perfect people on this board still feel fit to judge someone's actions and life from a 10 second snapshot which may or may not have been accurately posted online.

If you saw a man beating a child (not saying that is totally representative of what the OP saw), you wouldn't step in? Really? I don't believe that. Take it outside the context of a child. If you saw a man beating his dog, you wouldn't do anything?

I don't see anyone claiming to be perfect people or parents. I do see someone that reacted to what seemed to be a disastrous situation. Sometimes, people do simply react, and think later.

[Lady's Human]

Nowhere is beating mentioned in here.

I defy someone to drag a completely unwilling person ANYWHERE by their face, you'd lose your grip.

Given the OP's penchant for needless drama, (veggie salad, anyone) I also have damned good reason to question whether the scene unfolded as portrayed. Somehow I doubt it.

The comment which truly irritate me are the subsequent comment questioning the parenting skills of the person in question (judging someone's life on a 10 second snapshot) and the whole idea that it's completely fine to interfere with someone's actions as a parent in a public place.

Again, want a confrontation? If the OP had taken those actions with me, the police would have been needed.

[lizbud]

I don't struggle with another adult butting into parenting. It's very simple, I won't allow it. Someone attempts to correct or advise me on parenting in the manner done by the OP better call the police prior to acting, they're going to need them.




Sounds like a threat.

[Lady's Human]

No, trust me, I don't threaten. Should you care to, the mayor has my address when you call the police.

[Cataholic]

LH- although I am especially skilled at smelling out a non-responsive answer, anyone could have called that one. :)

[Lady's Human]

Cataholic, for starters I doubt there was "abuse".

Someone having a bad day? Likely. That's a far cry from abuse.

I've been asked and I've asked leading questions for years. I'm ignoring the leading part of your question because frankly it's not germane to the OP.

[Cataholic]

I took the OP's recitation of the facts as true.

My questions went more towards the WWLHD type of situation, if in fact, there WAS abuse. I was using a hypothetical. I don't need any answer to my questions, as I already know what you would do if you, in fact, saw abuse.

:D

[Bonny]

Where is that Nanny when we need her? She had some pretty good lessons to teach both the parents & children of the parents.

It goes two ways you know. Naughty kids, Naughty parents, everyone demanding some kind of attention, some kind of respect.

My dad use to say what goes around comes around.

[moosmom]

Your Dad was one smart man, Bonny!!!

[Marigold2]

This sounds like a no win. I think you did a great job in the most difficult situation. Mom has a numb nut.

Whatever kind of day that father was having is still no excuse for removing his child from the store the way he did.

I have an example of parental stupidity...I worked at Petco. An idiotic mother stood by while her 3 year old brat (in every sense of the word, I might add) pulled a step stool over to the tanks with the mice and rats and began banging (not tapping, mind you) on the glass of the tanks. I politely went over to him and asked him to please get down (his @$$hat mother just stood there and watched) and he started screaming and spitting at me. I gently lifted him down so as not to huirt him. The biatch starts screaming at me, proceeds to put her kid in a shopping cart and WHEELED HIM BACK OVER TO BANG ON THE GLASS!!!!

She look like the type of parent that would sue should something happen to their kid because of THEIR own stupidity.

She complained to the manager about it. I told him flat out that I was protecting those animals from that kid. He told me I shouldn't have put my hands on him. True, but still, I was SOOOOOO pissed!!!

Another reason why I can't stand kids anymore. Lately the parents just don't own it, allowing their kids to create havoc.

[Marigold2]

Beautifully said. May I ask do you see or speak to your mom now?
To this day, my mother thinks she just spanked my sister and me a bit when it was absolutely necessary.

She used to break wooden spoons over our rear ends. I had bruises from my lower back to the backs of my knees. She was still hitting me when I was in my teens. The psychological damage persists to this day--and I'm in my 50s.

Someone who hauls a kid away by the face in public has to be doing worse in private. If he did that to an adult, it would be considered assault and battery. Why is it acceptable if the victim is a child?

I'm a big fan of teaching one's children to behave. But violence is not an acceptable means.

[Marigold2]

Well Mr. Tough Guy bring it on.

What would you have done, hit me? Pushed me or dragged me by the face and hair as this demented dad did? Got in my face and screamed?

If you think I will just watch a child be mistreated and do nothing you don't understand me or many moms. And 10 seconds.? I only needed two. The kid was screaming bloody hell in pain.

What if you see someone beating a child with a stick or kicking them in say 5 seconds. What would you do? Would you stand by and let some man kick or beat his child? Or would you be decent enough and brave enough to step up and help the child?
Course this is America lets not forget that shall we?

What if it was a dog being kicked? Would you risk you safety to help said dog or just say the hell with it he probably peed on the rug and deserves it?

What about a women? Hell maybe the Bi%%h deserved it. Would you get involved and protect her if she was being dragged by the hair and face or figure it is between the two of them. Yes he is about 100 pounds more but so what, you are late for work and you don't have time to get involved in their BS?

This is how I feel. I step up. I hope that if I ever need help someone will step up for me or my kids or grandkids. We should all be kind and caring to each other and if we see another soul in pain or danger we should step out of our comfort zone and press our fear down and do what needs to be done to keep that soul safe.
Privacy and liberty in the US does NOT give one a right to beat mentally or physically an animal or human.

So if by chance I see you in trouble I will step up to help you and if I see you beating someone such as a child or animal I will stop you. Go ahead and call the police if you can, you might just find yourself having a lot of explaining to do.





Nowhere is beating mentioned in here.

I defy someone to drag a completely unwilling person ANYWHERE by their face, you'd lose your grip.

Given the OP's penchant for needless drama, (veggie salad, anyone) I also have damned good reason to question whether the scene unfolded as portrayed. Somehow I doubt it.

The comment which truly irritate me are the subsequent comment questioning the parenting skills of the person in question (judging someone's life on a 10 second snapshot) and the whole idea that it's completely fine to interfere with someone's actions as a parent in a public place.

Again, want a confrontation? If the OP had taken those actions with me, the police would have been needed.

[Karen]

LH would never beat a child or an animal. Scold a child? Yes, if necessary. Grasp a child by the shoulder and move him or her somewhere away from whatever he was doing wrong? Yes, if needed. But I have never seen him drag anyone or anything by the face, and remember, I have been his older sister his whole life. Just don't make assumptions, okay?

[Marigold2]

Perhaps he will explain his words to me then about needing the police if I ever stepped it with his life. Some saw it as a threat I didn't. I think the police would be arresting him.


LH would never beat a child or an animal. Scold a child? Yes, if necessary. Grasp a child by the shoulder and move him or her somewhere away from whatever he was doing wrong? Yes, if needed. But I have never seen him drag anyone or anything by the face, and remember, I have been his older sister his whole life. Just don't make assumptions, okay?

[Karen]

He meant if you, or anyone else, tried to interfere with his parenting. If he is grasping his son (more likely to misbehave at the moment than his daughter) by the shoulder and scolding him loudly, you should not assume the kids is beaten when no one is looking. You may assume that said child has been misbehaving repeatedly and after several warnings, as young children sometimes do, and has worn away every bit of patience LH had, and frankly, said child needs to recognize the consequences of his own misbehavior.

You, or anyone else, assuming abuse and stepping in at that point will not make anything better, and likely make an angry person angrier. Not the effect you would hope to have, I am sure.

[Marigold2]

Fair enough. And most of us have been there or seen a child in the store yell till our ears are almost bleeding and the parent turns a deaf ear because that is what is best.
But this was different. This was abuse. The chid was screaming in pain.
It was a judgement call. I think most caring parents would have stepped in and said something.
What I did find sad is that many people here remember very abusive childhoods and are still sufffering.
I like to say that I would be sane if it wasn't for my parents and kids. LOL
My dad beat me too. I made sure I DID NOT do that to my kids. They spent a lot of time in the corner thinking about what they did. Probably plotting revenage. LOL
I don't see or speak to my dad. But I am ok with that.
I hope all of you who had a less then a happy childhood peace and happiness. Today is for living. Tomorrow is full of promise.

[wombat2u2004]

Sorry Marigold, but I have to disagree with everything you are saying.
It isn't your place to get involved in family matters other than your own.
If you wish to do that, then the consequences of your actions can take two directions.......firstly, you will be target No.1. Secondly, the child will probably be punished more because you have angered the parent even more.
Think about that.
Sometimes it's best just to walk away.

[pomtzu]

Sorry Marigold, but I have to disagree with everything you are saying.
It isn't your place to get involved in family matters other than your own.
If you wish to do that, then the consequences of your actions can take two directions.......firstly, you will be target No.1. Secondly, the child will probably be punished more because you have angered the parent even more.
Think about that.
Sometimes it's best just to walk away.

I agree with this - somewhat anyway.
Yes - just walk away, but walk to a store employee and let them handle it from there. You are putting yourself in possible harm's way if you get directly involved. :(

[Lady's Human]

I have completely had it with the attitude that it's fine to interfere with someone's parenting because "I'm doing good".

You don't know. You don't know the kids, you don't know the parents, and you don't know the situation.

I'm tired of the school system calling me or sending notes home with the children that a child in classroom XYZ had pinkeye, strep, chickenpox, the sniffles, or anything else and telling me that if I see symptoms I need to get the child to a doctor. No. Really? You don't say. I never would have guessed that I needed to take a child to the doc with a 102 temp.

I'm tired of hearing absolute BS like "If you drink alcohol openly in the home you're putting your child at risk to be an alcoholic"

I have stepped into other people's parenting. When safety is involved, I will step in in a heartbeat. However, a dad or a kid having a miserable day in the store isn't a safety issue.

I certainly wouldn't (and haven't) post it on the internet to garner an ego stroke from sycophants.

[wombat2u2004]

I certainly wouldn't (and haven't) post it on the internet to garner an ego stroke from sycophants.

I would have.
I love to read what the toadies have to say :p:p

[Cataholic]

I'm tired of hearing absolute BS like "If you drink alcohol openly in the home you're putting your child at risk to be an alcoholic"


I mean, really. The only person put at risk is the person doing the drinking! LOL, I am just kidding. Everyone knows that you should HIDE the alcohol from the kiddos....lest you have none when you want some. :D