Computer Geeks in Movies.

[blue]

Even before I became a computer geek for hire something about Computer Geeks in movies bothered me.

I see alot of Macs in movies yet Macs arent as widely used as Windows machines. Of all the people I know who are Mac users only one fully utilizes its potential. The rest are lucky that OSX is built on Linux.

In Die Hard 4 I didnt see any Macs but the Windows machines and servers where easily hacked. There are allot of holes in Windows OS and those holes are regularly taken advantage of by script kiddies and virus writers.

I started using Linux (Ubutnu to be specific) after I became a geek for hire and saw how vulnerable Windows OS is to vicious scripts and viruses, it really is a huge pain in my a$$. With Ubuntu I can navigate both Windows and Mac networks easier then using the native OS system.

There may not be a coherent point to my ramble here but I know this, Windows is wide open and Microsoft knows it, Mac isnt as wide open but it isnt as secure as Mac users think it is, and if Linux ever gets a larger foothold in the computer market we may all be a target to the bored and socially inept geniuses living in their grandparents basements.

Cliff Notes. Windows are an invitation for AHoles and Macs are wide open for even Bigger AHoles with more time on their hands. Linux FTMFW!

ETA: I invite all of yall to gripe about computer geeks and computers in general here if for no other purpose then venting.

[Puckstop31]

Amateurs think about operating system. Professionals think about productivity suites/server apps.

That is not a ding, that is advice.

When you get into the business side of the technology world you have to think like a end user. (No, not a 'remove brain' deal, an actual real end user who does job x.) They don't care one bit about operating system. They care about doing this job. See where I am going?

And, FWIW, as long as safe computing practices are used, Windows OS, especially Windows 7, is perfectly safe for use. We could get into WHY Microsoft stuff is the big target, but we can save that for later if you want. LOL

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Also, FWIW, my company supports about 5,000 desktops/laptops and about 500 servers (and growing big time) with a 4.5 person technical staff. We utilize a variety of software tools to help us do this while having minimal on-site time.

Moral? Making money in this business has very little to do with actual technology. It has more to do with process management.

[kokopup]

While i do not profess to be computer geek, i did make my living for years on computer systems. I spent most of my time in the Unix and VMS world but had my fair share of time with Windows which I do not consider a true operating system.

blue

I see alot of Macs in movies yet Macs arent as widely used as Windows machines. Of all the people I know who are Mac users only one fully utilizes its potential. The rest are lucky that OSX is built on Linux.

Actually Mac OSX is a fully licensed version of UNIX. While Linux is Unix like it is not the same. Actually like Linux, Unix has so many different versions that the Berkeley Egomanics that created it would not recognize many of them.

Because of the holes in Windows most of the far east, Japan leading the way is moving almost entirely to their version of Linux.

[blue]

Amateurs think about operating system. Professionals think about productivity suites/server apps.

That is not a ding, that is advice.

When you get into the business side of the technology world you have to think like a end user. (No, not a 'remove brain' deal, an actual real end user who does job x.) They don't care one bit about operating system. They care about doing this job. See where I am going?

And, FWIW, as long as safe computing practices are used, Windows OS, especially Windows 7, is perfectly safe for use. We could get into WHY Microsoft stuff is the big target, but we can save that for later if you want. LOL

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Also, FWIW, my company supports about 5,000 desktops/laptops and about 500 servers (and growing big time) with a 4.5 person technical staff. We utilize a variety of software tools to help us do this while having minimal on-site time.

Moral? Making money in this business has very little to do with actual technology. It has more to do with process management.

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Calm down, dinging Windoze is now a hobby of mine. Another hobby is looking into way's to make client Users more productive without using Windoze, this will be a long time hobby and only a hobby as Windoze is my boss's bread and butter. Without Windoze my boss wont make as much money, same boat you are in . Im not pushing or even suggesting anything Unix on our contract clients but I do suggest it to our in shop clients who cant grasp Safe, Best Practices. However, some of our contract clients have users that could get viruses on a DVD player or a toaster oven and they could be just as productive with a Mac or a Linux machine without the Windoze headaches. Win7 is easier to lock down then XP, so we'll see, I do predict our in shop services for virus/malware mitigation will not be slowing down when Win7 gets a bigger market share. I also predict our in shop calls for BSOD, system sluggishness, and system conflict issues wont be any less with Win7 getting a bigger market share.

There are fewer and fewer "jobs" that I cant do on my Ubuntu netbook that contract clients do on their work stations. What I cant do on my netbook I can do on the clients servers.

From my limited experience some end users do care about the OS, its whats familiar and they fear change. To them a a new password policy is frightening.

If it werent for my mom my stepdad would still be using a Macintosh II. If he nukes his PC again Im setting him up with Ubuntu.

Microsoft is the major player in the computer world, if that isnt the reason they are the biggest target Ild like to know about it.

While i do not profess to be computer geek, i did make my living for years on computer systems. I spent most of my time in the Unix and VMS world but had my fair share of time with Windows which I do not consider a true operating system.

blue


Actually Mac OSX is a fully licensed version of UNIX. While Linux is Unix like it is not the same. Actually like Linux, Unix has so many different versions that the Berkeley Egomanics that created it would not recognize many of them.

Because of the holes in Windows most of the far east, Japan leading the way is moving almost entirely to their version of Linux.

Thanks for the clarification, but isnt Mac OS a closed source OS? Either way I do not find OSX very intuitive and it annoys me. I may build a Hackintosh in the future to play with the OS more.

For me the Unix based Ubuntu OS is very intuitive, easy to use and makes my job easier.

The impetus for me starting this thread was the proliferation of Mac's in movies where the users are peaceful and benevolent, the Stieg Larson books made movies as an exception, and movies portraying hackers and computer malcontents as PC/Windoze users.

[Puckstop31]

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Calm down, dinging Windoze is now a hobby of mine. Another hobby is looking into way's to make client Users more productive without using Windoze, this will be a long time hobby and only a hobby as Windoze is my boss's bread and butter. Without Windoze my boss wont make as much money, same boat you are in .

It's WINDOWS. Use Win7. Then get back to me.

Bill Gates leaving the company was the best thing that ever happened to MS.

Im not pushing or even suggesting anything Unix on our contract clients but I do suggest it to our in shop clients who cant grasp Safe, Best Practices. However, some of our contract clients have users that could get viruses on a DVD player or a toaster oven and they could be just as productive with a Mac or a Linux machine without the Windoze headaches. Win7 is easier to lock down then XP, so we'll see, I do predict our in shop services for virus/malware mitigation will not be slowing down when Win7 gets a bigger market share. I also predict our in shop calls for BSOD, system sluggishness, and system conflict issues wont be any less with Win7 getting a bigger market share.

Be honest.

How many BSOD/Virus calls you get are the result of user doing things on the internet they should not be doing? Reading chain emails? Pron? Etc?

Hmmm?

If the USER practices smart computing....

There are fewer and fewer "jobs" that I cant do on my Ubuntu netbook that contract clients do on their work stations. What I cant do on my netbook I can do on the clients servers.

From my limited experience some end users do care about the OS, its whats familiar and they fear change. To them a a new password policy is frightening.

Again, this is not personal.

But, get into a 30 million dollar process manufacturer and get back to me.

DOn't forget TCO, user training and user productivity. Technology is EASY. Making it useful to a business is another subject altogether. Eh?

Our business is getting the client to use technology to make their job easier. Is Ubuntu/Open Office worth a month of downtime and user training? Is it worth the headaches the customer's client will have ?

Microsoft is the major player in the computer world, if that isnt the reason they are the biggest target Ild like to know about it.

Have I said otherwise?

I often tell clients... "Yes, going to Mac will save you in AV costs. About $1000 a year. But it will cost you $100,00 to move your staff to Mac's"

You see?

[blue]

It's WINDOWS. Use Win7. Then get back to me.

I did, beta. RC, and RTC. If I didnt have a choice outside of windows, Ild stick with XP.

Bill Gates leaving the company was the best thing that ever happened to MS.

After Balmer steps down Ill agree.

Be honest.

How many BSOD/Virus calls you get are the result of user doing things on the internet they should not be doing? Reading chain emails? Pron? Etc?

Hmmm?

Thats the thing. My own machines, when I used XP, should have been so riddled with viruses, malware, trojans, redirects, fake anti viruses, rootkits,,etc, etc.... because of where Ive been on the disgusting areas of the Interweb it really shouldnt be a competition. But my home machines remained fairly clean of any sort of malware/virus/trojans. My XP machines also stayed fast because I wiped and reloaded them every few months, I stored anything important on a server so I can restore my PCs in less then 45 minutes.

From what Ive seen Facebook, Myspace, and fansites spread more malware then pron sites these days.

If the USER practices smart computing....

Thats the problem. Getting the Basic User to practice Safe, Best Practices

Again, this is not personal.

Im not attacking you, I dont see you as attacking me.

But, get into a 30 million dollar process manufacturer and get back to me.

Why would I want to do that?

DOn't forget TCO, user training and user productivity. Technology is EASY. Making it useful to a business is another subject altogether. Eh?

Wouldnt TCO be less with open source technologies? More tech savy employees would be more valuable to businesses in the long run I would think. Am I wrong?

Our business is getting the client to use technology to make their job easier.

I very much agree. ETA: But is making them dumber in our best interest?

Is Ubuntu/Open Office worth a month of downtime and user training? Is it worth the headaches the customer's client will have ?

Im not arguing that it is and I would not push Ubuntu or OpenOffice on a client/user. To many clients/users are afraid of something that isnt MicroSoft based.

Have I said otherwise?

Nope.

I often tell clients... "Yes, going to Mac will save you in AV costs. About $1000 a year. But it will cost you $100,00 to move your staff to Mac's"

You see?

Absolutely.

My question is what would it cost to switch to Unix based workstations with Windows based servers?

[Lady's Human]

Wouldnt TCO be less with open source technologies? More tech savy employees would be more valuable to businesses in the long run I would think. Am I wrong?

Have you ever tried to get someone who is technologically illiterate to change to a new application? The easier you make it, and the more familiar platforms you use, the easier training becomes.

Easier training=cheaper training and a more efficient operation.

In many cases the applications costs between different platforms is negligible, and compatability and ease of use trumps all.

A more tech savy IT person is great. A tech savy graphic artist is still a graphic artist at the core. The arts training and ablities are what matters, and you tailor the platform and app suite around the population, not vice cersa.

[blue]

The dumbing down of users, I hear what you and Puck are preaching.

[Lady's Human]

It's not dumbing down users, it's tailoring the applications to the users.

I can teach a geek to use Photoshop in a heartbeat, but I can't teach a geek to be an artist. Hence, Photoshop has a GUI which is intuitive and makes it easier for an artist to be an artist.

[Puckstop31]

The dumbing down of users, I hear what you and Puck are preaching.

Not at all.

Time is money. What will make the user the most efficient at their job with the least amount of capital/training investment?

Like I said in my first responce... OS is not anywhere near as important as productivity software and the process it supports.

[blue]

ETA: In the spirit of the original intent of this thread, add "Law Abiding Citizen" to movies where the "Good Guys" use Macs.

It's not dumbing down users, it's tailoring the applications to the users.

Not at all.

Yeah that was an unfair statement on my part. However I do work with network engineers who would love to dumb down users to make their jobs easier. I also see how its easier and more cost effective to sell clients and end users ready made MS/Windows solutions, its even more profitable in the long run.

I can teach a geek to use Photoshop in a heartbeat, but I can't teach a geek to be an artist. Hence, Photoshop has a GUI which is intuitive and makes it easier for an artist to be an artist.

Im to cheap to buy Photoshop and Im to lazy to pirate it, well lazy and I dont need PS. Now GIMP is free and I dont find it easy or intuitive. If the PS interface is similar to GIMP, which application do you think Im going to recommend? If you said the free one give yourself a gold star.

Time is money. What will make the user the most efficient at their job with the least amount of capital/training investment?

If it is all about capital and training, IE (or is it EG?) the user has no experience with any OS, why would Unix based work stations be a negative to productivity? Unix based machines would be cheaper the Windowz machines, or am I wrong on that too?

I also get that it is easier for you to hire employees that are already MS certified, rather then trying to find certified Linux techs.

Like I said in my first responce... OS is not anywhere near as important as productivity software and the process it supports.

I disagree and I think you know why. OS is important when it comes to making tech support companies money.

[Lady's Human]

If it is all about capital and training, IE (or is it EG?) the user has no experience with any OS, why would Unix based work stations be a negative to productivity? Unix based machines would be cheaper the Windowz machines, or am I wrong on that too?

There are almost no users entering the workforce with no OS experience. The Windows and Mac GUIs have been in place long enough to where the bulk of the users entering any workplace are going to have experience in some way shape or form with one of those OS packages.

Im to cheap to buy Photoshop and Im to lazy to pirate it, well lazy and I dont need PS. Now GIMP is free and I dont find it easy or intuitive. If the PS interface is similar to GIMP, which application do you think Im going to recommend? If you said the free one give yourself a gold star.

Does Gimp have 24/7 tech support available?

Has GIMP been vetted for use on intranets?

Is GIMP going to be updated with security patches, and can I trust those patches?

The cost of the user license is minimal compared to the total cost of NOT using a product which is industry standard. I remember bringing a file on a PC formatted disc into a print house and getting charged extra because it wasn't a Mac file. Industry standardization drives the car, not the initial cost of the product.

OS and a vetted tech support base are important when it comes to the user being able to run reliably 24/7/365.

[blue]

There are almost no users entering the workforce with no OS experience.

The Amish. Rimshot. Im going to agree with Puck and go him one better, End Users dont know an OS from a web browser. In the end most end users will fight to keep what they know, that might be Winblowz and IE or OSX and Safari.

Does Gimp have 24/7 tech support available?

Do I care? No. Do I care that Photoshop has 24/7 tech support? Again, No I do not. If I sold or pimped Photoshop I would care. If the client needed 24/7 support I would recommend PS, otherwise I would recommend GIMP.

Has GIMP been vetted for use on intranets?

Good question, I dont know. GIMP is an open source alternative to PS. Im guessing by your question that PS has been vetted on intranets?

Is GIMP going to be updated with security patches, and can I trust those patches?

I dont pimp GIMP so I dont know, ask the open source community that supports GIMP. If a company wanted what PS can do without the price and was willing to take the risk I would suggest GIMP and leave the decision up to them. If it was my choice on a clients network with Winblows workstations I admit I would recommend Photoshop.

Myself, Ild trust GIMP over PS because PS needs regular security patches

The cost of the user license is minimal compared to the total cost of NOT using a product which is industry standard. I remember bringing a file on a PC formatted disc into a print house and getting charged extra because it wasn't a Mac file. Industry standardization drives the car, not the initial cost of the product.

You should have asked what formats were supported by the printer, and formatted your file to accommodate the printer, dont blame the printer for costing you extra.

OS and a vetted tech support base are important when it comes to the user being able to run reliably 24/7/365.

Thats the bottom line isnt it? Windoze isnt reliable 24/7/365, no OS is. Winblowz just costs more upfront and for long term support.

Puck, I hope you arent ducking my question.

My question is what would it cost to switch to Unix based workstations with Windows based servers?

[Lady's Human]

Thats the bottom line isnt it? Windoze isnt reliable 24/7/365, no OS is. Winblowz just costs more upfront and for long term support.

Windows has a much larger support base than most OS packages. Chances are that SOMEONE in the support community is going to know what's going on with your box or your LAN.

Linux/Unix/Qnx or whatever flavor of Unix you're running, especially if it's been tailored to your situation? Not so much.

You should have asked what formats were supported by the printer, and formatted your file to accommodate the printer, dont blame the printer for costing you extra.

That's not the point. The point is that the printer used Mac based systems because they could more easily get skilled workers to use that platform. Cross platform compatability used to be a PITA. Mac systems were easily 3x more expensive at that point in time, but it was cheaper for them to use Macs due to ...........training and app availability. It wasn't a complaint about them charging more, it was a statement about what drives the bus when it comes to platform choices.

[blue]

Windows has a much larger support base than most OS packages. Chances are that SOMEONE in the support community is going to know what's going on with your box or your LAN.

Linux/Unix/Qnx or whatever flavor of Unix you're running, especially if it's been tailored to your situation? Not so much.

For what Windows costs, upfront and for long term support, it had better have a HUGE on call support base. Same goes for Mac OS. Tailored Unix OS will have a much smaller on call support base, the users would likely know that up front.

That's not the point. The point is that the printer used Mac based systems because they could more easily get skilled workers to use that platform. Cross platform compatibility used to be a PITA. Mac systems were easily 3x more expensive at that point in time, but it was cheaper for them to use Macs due to ...........training and app availability. It wasn't a complaint about them charging more, it was a statement about what drives the bus when it comes to platform choices.

So you brought the printer an unsupported format and that cost your company more money but that isnt the point?

Please dont complain to the Mayor that I used Opera, a free web browser, to correct the spelling in your post I quoted.