Government run health care

[Marigold2]

I think the government is doing a great job with Medicare. Seniors have great benefits and only a small deductable every year, I think it's $125.00.
Medicaid, Wellcare and CareSource are overrun by people abusing the system. Having multiple children that the government has to pay for is not what the system was designed for. If you are on welfare you should not be having children. Being on welfare means you have declared that you cannot take care of yourself either physically or mentally and now you are asking the governement to pay your bills.
These programs should be for the sick, old, the poor and the vets. Poor because of something that happened to make your life difficult, not having seven kids with five different men.
I think that Obama's health care reform is moving in the right direction. I like the fact that the elderly will be able to have someone to talk to about end of life issues.
Weather hospice, a living will, DNR, nursing home, private nurses, wills all these things will be discussed while the patient still has their senses about them. No one is trying to pull the plug on grandma.
How does everyone feel about living wills?
Do you want to be kept alive by machines? If so how long?

[blue]

How does Obama's health care reform address the moms with seven kids from 5 different fathers?

[Medusa]

Being on welfare means you have declared that you cannot take care of yourself either physically or mentally and now you are asking the governement to pay your bills.

That just is not the case. We pay into the system so that if, God forbid, something should happen that we come into dire straits, welfare is there to get us over the hump until we can get back on our feet again. To be sure, there are those who abuse the system and there are people who are born into welfare and never get off. I daresay, though, that many people who are receiving welfare don't really want it but are in a position where they feel they must take it until they can support themselves. Your statement above is unfair, untrue and lacking compassion.

[pomtzu]

You're badly mistaken if you think seniors have it so great on Medicare. A one time deductible of $125??? - oh please - I wish!!!! You need to do your homework.
Haven't you ever seen the ads on t.v. for supplemental insurance to Medicare that is offered by places like AARP. If I was only paying a one time deductible, then I wouldn't need a supplement, would I??? With Medicare there are still deductibles and co-pays that can run into thousands and thousands out of pocket, and that's where the supplemental insurance comes in - to cover what Medicare doesn't. And a good supplemental insurance isn't exactly cheap either!! And prescription coverage under Medicare Part D - very expensive and not just thrown in at no charge. I don't even carry it since it would cost me more than I pay thru Sam's or Canadian pharmacies!
So out of my Social Security check, I have to pay my Medicare and my supplemental insurance. Thanks Uncle Sam for the wonderful benefits!

And I felt your statement about people on Welfare declaring that they are physically and mentally unable to care for themselves, was one of the most insulting statements I have seen here in a very long time. Granted, there are people that abuse the Welfare System, but I don't believe the majority do. Hopefully, you will never be in a position where you may have to ask for some temporary help!


And I don't need anyone to talk to about end of life decisions. I have a living will with a DNR order, and orders for no heroic efforts to sustain my life artificially. It's a person's responsibility to take care of these issues and make decisions while they are still healty, and not wait till they are at death's door.

[Marigold2]

If you are on welfare be it a week or a year or 10 years it is because for whatever reason you cannot take care of yourself finanically. Welfare helps that is what it is there for. People on welfare declare themselves unable to support themselves. Is that not correct? What other reason is there to be on welfare? You can't support yourself and you go and apply for help in food stamps and housing etc..
As for Medicare the deductable every year is $125.00 and Medicare pays for 80% of most medical bills. I am not talking about the meds just the procedures.
Private insurance can have a deductable of $5000.00 per year. Most people have $1500 or $2000.00.
I think Medicare does a great job. They pay very well, I have never met any Dr who does not take it, I am not even sure they can refuse Medicare. Drs however can refuse to take Medicaid, Wellcare, Caresource and many do. Why, because they pay so little.
Caresource might only pay $20.00 for an office visit. Medicare will pay over $100.00 for the same visit. A Dr. cannot survive, a practice cannot stay open if most of your patients are Caresource or Wellcare. He cannot afford the rent, electric, malpractice, staff and a hundred other expenses.
People who are on these insurances drain the system and are responsible for hospitals closing in many cases. Urban hospitals with mostly Medicaid patients cannot generate the income from this insurance to pay staff, equipment and all the rest.
We need to make people more responsible for themselves, educate them so they can work and make a decent living. If we can cut the number of people on government assitance this country and all of us might have a chance. After all we are all paying for this with our tax dollars.
As for a living will yes I think everyone should have one made, but many elderly don't. They are afraid to talk about it. Then when they do die their children are left to sort out the mess. I think everyone should be encouraged to speak to a lawyer who specializes in end of life issues, it would make those that are left behind rest easier.

[Lady's Human]

If you are on welfare be it a week or a year or 10 years it is because for whatever reason you cannot take care of yourself finanically. Welfare helps that is what it is there for. People on welfare declare themselves unable to support themselves. Is that not correct? What other reason is there to be on welfare? You can't support yourself and you go and apply for help in food stamps and housing etc..

So, someone who loses their job through a plant closing or another reason that is beyond their control, you're saying they are incompetent?

You've made some fairly insensitive posts before, but this one pretty much tops them all.

[Medusa]

If you are on welfare be it a week or a year or 10 years it is because for whatever reason you cannot take care of yourself finanically. Welfare helps that is what it is there for. People on welfare declare themselves unable to support themselves. Is that not correct? What other reason is there to be on welfare? You can't support yourself and you go and apply for help in food stamps and housing etc..

I believe that many people who are on welfare don't want to be. I've watched women in the grocery store in line ahead of me break down and cry when they handed the checkout person their food stamps because they're embarrassed. I would be embarrassed, too, but I would NOT be ashamed. We've paid into the system and it's our money to be used until we can get on our feet again. So what is a person supposed to do if s/he loses a job and can't find another one, starve? Let the kids go hungry? Become homeless? I think I might understand what you're saying, though, Monica: that people aren't incapable of supporting themselves, just that they're unable to at the present time. If that's what you meant, then I don't disagree w/you in theory but surely you can understand why your words come across as insensitive! To say that they're also mentally unable to support themselves is judgmental and cruel.

I've heard people comment on how they've seen welfare recipients wearing nice jewelry, etc. but that tells me that they may have had that jewelry before they went on welfare. That check only goes so far; it isn't much money from what I understand. I marvel at the people who point a finger at those on welfare as if they're living the good life and wonder, if it's so good, if they would trade places w/them.

[pomtzu]

Again - I will say that Medicare for seniors isn't as wonderful as you think it is. Perhaps you should send for the government guide that is published - it's available to anyone and not just seniors. Then you might see how limited the coverage is and why you need supplemental insurance to survive. What's covered - what's not - how often you can have certain diagnostic tests - how long you can be hospitalized - and on and on and on. It's not just a matter of paying a deductible and then full free reign after that. Far from it!!!
Here's an example for you. My primary care doc charges me $122 just to walk in the door - that's no tests - no nothing!!! And what does Medicare pay of that???? - $71. A cash paying patient gets the same care from the same doctor for $50. Why such a difference??? - because that's what's allowable by law - believe me - I have questioned it. So as long as the government lets doctors inflate their charges under Medicare, then we seniors aren't on easy street as some of you think!!!

Doctors can and do refuse Medicare patients, and my brother will be one to testify to that. When he moved to a different state last year he was told by several that he would have to pay the charges up front and file with Medicare on his own. They weren't refusing to take him as a patient, only refusing to file with Medicare. It still boils down to refusing a Medicare patient, since I doubt that many people would care to go thru the hassle of filing their own claims.

I also see no need for anyone to have to speak to a lawyer regarding end of life issues. I made my decisions on my own - my family has a copy - and I carry a copy in my wallet. The forms were filled out and witnessed and notarized several weeks prior to a surgical procedure - simple as that. It's my life and my choice to leave it the way I see fit, and I sure don't need a lawyer "advising" me on what I should do and how I should leave, or if I should stay around and possibly be a vegetable and drain my family physically, emotionally, and financially! When I can no longer do for myself, then why should I be here???

[Marigold2]

When I refer to people mentally unable to support themselves I speak of people who are depressed, bi-polar, vets with PTSD, people with all types of mental disorders are on welfare. Many homeless people also have mental disorders and are not on meds, even when help is available. Having a mental disorder is nothing to be ashamed of, welfare is there to help. People unable to hold jobs, cope with life because of mental illness are on welfare and yes that is what it is there for. People who suffer from depression are in deep pain and deserve help.
I am talking about those that abuse the system not those that deserve our help. I never mentioned people who lost their job. The only slackers I mentioned are those that have numorous kids with different fathers who will not or cannot support themselves. No where in my post did I bash anyone who is hardworking. I am talking about the Jerry Springer/Maury Povich crowd. And don't kid yourself they make up a huge amount of welfare people and take huge amounts of money. In these difficult times anyone of us can lose our home, or job. We are hard working, honest and deserve help.

[Lady's Human]

When you find yourself in a hole, the first step to getting out is putting down the shovel.

[Medusa]

You're back pedaling and you know it. The tenor of your first post differs from what you just posted and now you're trying to CYA. If I were you, I'd stick to the principle of "least said, easiest mended" and let it go at that.

[Marigold2]

I am sticking to my guns and no I am not back peddling. My first post talks about people who have multilple children with multiple partners. No where does it mention anyone else.
And if you are on welfare it does mean that you are either mentally unable to take care of yourself or physically not, able or both. What other option is there? I am not going to apologize to complaining about the Jerry Springer group and if anyone reads it differently that is how they read between the lines, my post was clear. People with multiple children and multiple partners. I am standing my ground.
As for being in the hole I don't think so. I am doing ok thank you very much.

[Medusa]

Saying that there may be some people w/mental disorders who are on welfare is not the same thing as saying "Being on welfare means you have declared that you cannot take care of yourself either physically or mentally and now you are asking the governement to pay your bills." It isn't imperative that you agree w/me but I would like to think that you can understand how your comments come across as insensitive and uncompassionate and that your opinion about Medicare is just that, opinion, and not fact based. Try not to discount what pomtzu has posted. She has experienced it first hand. I'm thinking that you haven't because you're not old enough yet. I think I'll shut up now because I have a feeling that my words are falling on deaf ears.

[pomtzu]

And if you are on welfare it does mean that you are either mentally unable to take care of yourself or physically not, able or both. What other option is there?

Maybe I should do what Mary said - just shut up because this will fall on deaf ears - but what the heck..............

I fail to see where someone who has lost their job because of the economy and needs help, falls into this category, as do a lot of other scenarios.........

Mentally unable??? - that's someone who doesn't have their wits about them, perhaps "slow", perhaps suffering in a depressive state, etc.

Physically unable??? - broken bones, auto accident, etc.


The person who lost their job and may need some assistance, is most likely very lucid and in good health. So how do figure that they are declaring themselves physically and mentally unable to care for themselves??? What puts them in that category???
Sorry - but I still say that is a very insulting and degrading and uninformed statement to make!

[Miss Z]

Purely on a point of interest (and I say that as I've often been told to keep my big English nose out of American politics on this site before )...

I recently read an article in the Times about how the Republican National Committee is fearful that Obama is aiming to recreate an American version of the National Health Service that we have over here in Great Britain. According to some members of this committee, our free, government-run healthcare is 'evil' and 'socialist'.

However, with this thread speaking specifically about those on benefits and welfare and the likes, would this sort of health care not be hugely beneficial for people in those situations?