Help! My dog is "messing" in the house and other nasty stuff!

[butrrfly23]

Ok, here's one...I know this can be a gross subject but it's driving me crazy and I really could use some advice...

My younger dog, Roscoe, (19 month old neutered male pit bull), has this really nasty habit. Only when we are away from the house, he will occasionally poop in the house...and eat it! Yuck!

He has had this habit since puppyhood. When we brought him home at 5 months old we noticed then that he had a habit of pooping in his crate and eating it. The home he came from before we took him in kept him in his crate for long hours and we believe he developed this habit from those days and from simply not being able to hold it that long. Unlike our older dog, Ginger (who is like clockwork), Roscoe is not a really "regular" dog. His stools are often soft (even when he hasn't been eating it) and he has to go at irregular intervals.

When he does go in the house, he always like to go in one general area, which happens to be right near my computer desk! Luckily it's on the tile floor but I'm going through gallons of Nature's Miracle keeping the area clean!

I can't tell if he is doing this behavior simply because he gets to the point that he can't hold it any longer (being irregular there are probably times it hits him all of a sudden) or if, because he always tends to go right near my chair, he is doing this as some type of behavioral issue related to me.

A few pieces of info that might be important to note are:
I walk for a good 30 minute brisk walk with both my dogs first thing in the morning (we use doggie backpacks in which they carry water bottles so they get nice and tired out). They also get a walk in the evening some days.
I take the dogs to use the bathroom before the morning walk, I eat lunch at home every day, so I take them out then, I take them out again around dinner time and once more just before bedtime.
Usually, when he has a chance to use the bathroom outside during the walks, the incidences in the house are much more infrequent.
Often we have to take him for a walk to get him to go, just bringing him outside to his usual area and prompting him with our usual "go poopy" prompt is not enough. It's almost as if he has to "work it out".
I always give him lots of praise every time he goes outside. We never really get the chance to catch him in the act of messing in the house to offer any type of correction at the moment it could make a difference. We always find the remnants of what he's done well after the fact, when we come home, and he won't do it at all when we're present, only when we're gone.

Could this be some type of separation anxiety? Are there any products we can use to deter him from doing this? (for example I use bitter apple to keep him from chewing on things he shouldn't). Other than the schedule I keep them on and the frequent walks, is there anything I can do, or any dietary supplements that might help him to be more regular? Anyone have any ideas on why he is doing this and, more importantly, how to make him stop!

Thank you!

[Karen]

This is called copraphagia (the poop eating, not necessarily in the house) -
an old thread on it is here. You may find it helpful.

[butrrfly23]

Thanks, I will try the pills to see if that keeps him from eating it, however I still can't figure out how to actually stop him from going in the house when we're not there. It's so frustrating because, if he would do it when we're home, we could catch him in the act and be able to make a correction at the moment it happens. But since he only does it when we are away from the house, we never find it till well after the fact and it's too late to try and make any meaningful corrections. I always praise him a lot when he uses the bathroom outdoors, but if that's not being balanced by corrections letting him know that using the bathroom in the house is unacceptable, I don't see how he'll ever learn to stop doing it.

It's almost as if he knows he's not supposed to do it, so he waits until no one is around to correct him. And then, on top of that, he always chooses to do it right next to my computer desk! This is starting to make me think it's some type of behavioral issue where maybe he's showing some kind of displeasure towards me or something.

I've also been given the advice to back it up and try putting him in the crate again, but ever since we brought him home he's messed in the crate and eatin as well, so it's like he doesn't even mind using the bathroom in the place where he sleeps!

Anyway, if anyone can suggest how we train him out of doing something when we're not around, I would sure welcome any ideas.

Thanks again!

[signorelli21]

wow, thats an interesting problem!!!

i think the best way to train him would be to take a few days off of work, or adjust your schedule (s) so that someone is always around when he gets the urge, so you can correct him. he probably doesn;t know he is doing anything wrong, and he doesn't need to go when you let him out because he goes when you leave ( my dog did the same thing)

i have a couple questions that may help us help you.

1. what kind of food do you feed him? you mentioned his stools were usually loose and infrequent. and do you feed him at regular intervals or just keep his bowl full?

2. have you taken him to the vet to rule out any health issues?

3. how big is the crate you keep him in? he shouldn't have enough room to move around enough to go potty without standing in it.

i used to leave my dog in the kitchen ( tile floor ) and there would always be a minefield at the far end when i came home. i started putting her in a cage that came with a divider so you can increase/decrease the amount of room they have, if its too big then they will just go in the corner and still have enough room to not lay in it. may sound cruel but trust me its not, and it works.

also he is probably bored, do you give him plenty of things to chew on?

[butrrfly23]

I do have a few days off coming up in a week or two so maybe I can try to do some of this training/correction then. To answer your questions:

1. what kind of food do you feed him? you mentioned his stools were usually loose and infrequent. and do you feed him at regular intervals or just keep his bowl full?

We feed the dogs Nutro Natural choice, Large Breed adult (with glucosamine chondroitin. Both dogs are around 60 pounds. I actually feed both of the dogs 3 times a day, which is basically every time we are eating (we always eat first, then feed the dogs). Both of them get a measured portion at each meal and both of them eat their entire portion. I come home from work for lunch every day and have just taken the total amount of food they're supposed to get per day according to their weight and the food bag directions and divided it up for 3 meals a day. About every other day at dinner time, I mix wet Nutro dog food in with the dry food, but the majority of the time they get just dry food alone.

2. have you taken him to the vet to rule out any health issues?

He was at the vet not too long ago for his full yearly exam (fecal exam came back clean) and shots. He has done this type of thing ever since we got him at 5 months old, so for about 14 months or so, there haven't really been many changes. Now I didn't bring this exact issue up with the vet this last time, I guess because this is how he's always been so I think I've just become accustomed to it but maybe I do need to ask the vet, just to be sure.

3. how big is the crate you keep him in? he shouldn't have enough room to move around enough to go potty without standing in it.

We have stopped keeping him in the crate when we're away. We kept him in a crate (a pretty good sized crate where he can stand up and turn around even now that he's full grown) for a long time but started "weaning" him off of the crate several months ago. Our other dog, Ginger, has never stayed in a crate, and is an angel in the house. Roscoe did a lot of chewing and destructive behavior up until a couple of months ago, but now that he's about 19 months old, most of that has seemed to stop. He would almost always poop in his crate and eat it from the time we first brought him home, so I just figured taking a step back into the crate wouldn't do much good. However, maybe the problem is that the crate we have for him is too big? Maybe we should move him to a slightly smaller crate to see if he will stop this behavior, then graduate him up to larger areas of the house?

As far as being bored...on the plus side, I give both the dogs a good brisk 30 to 40 minute walk with backpacks carrying water bottles to tire them both out first thing in the morning, every day. Occasionally we also take a short walk in the evenings as well. For toys I only allow them to have two identical Nylabones to chew on (they have to be the same or they fight over which one is more valuable). I have found them to be the only type of toy that Roscoe can't chew into tiny pieces and swallow with his powerful jaws. I've also found that giving them more selections of toys, can tend to cause dominance battles over which one will possess the more valuable toys. So we keep it simple with one of the same bone per dog.

On the negative side, my husband and I both have very hectic schedules and are not the best at finding time for things like obedience training or play. We'll play with the dogs for a few minutes some evenings and more on the weekends, but all day long, other than me coming home for lunch, it's just the two of them and their bones. They do play together and wrestle quite a bit, which keeps them both occupied and helps to keep their energy levels under control throughout the day. This was another reason why we liked the idea of keeping them both out of the crate, so they could play together and not get so bored all day.

All in all, I'm sure that we could put more time in towards playing and obedience training, but generally, they do get a lot of walks and playtime with each other.

By the way, when we are here at the house, he is really good about letting us know when he has to go out. He comes up to us and sits, staring straight at us giving a few high-pitched, loud "Arf's!", we take him out and he goes, no problem.

I hope that info helps. I am open to any more ideas anyone has.

Thanks!

[dab_20]

Since you said his stools are soft and he eats it, I thought maybe it was his dog food. I feed my dogs Nutro also, and they do very well on it. Maybe a vet check is nessecery just to rule out any health problems. I recommend keeping your eye on him all the times, as if he was a little puppy again. Don't let him have full rein of the house until he stops going inside. Sorry I really don't have much advice other then keeping him with you at all times to correct him in the act.
Hope he's trained soon enough. Good Luck.

Your exercise plans sound very much like Cesar Millan is always telling people! I'm reading his book currently.

[butrrfly23]

Oh, yes, Cesar is my hero! I've really learned so much from watching how he works with dogs, especially those with poor social skills. Probably the biggest lesson I've learned is how important it is to control my frustration and emotions when (esp. my rescue dog Ginger) acts in an antisocial way. It's starting to sink in how my emotions and anxiety about a situation transfers right to my dogs and then they pick up on it and act on it. Also, the exercise regimen has definitely helped A LOT and I am starting to improve my skills with properly walking them. When they're tired they are so much more tractable and easier to work with.

I think going back to the crate might just be the answer. I might try to see if I can get a crate for him that is just a bit smaller than the one we have. The one we have is probably 2' deep x 3' wide x 2' high. He's a decent sized dog, but this crate could easily hold a large Labrador and although he is stocky and weighs about 60 lbs, he's very compact (like most APBT's) so his size is more like a medium dog. He can easily go potty in the crate, do his nasty thing and still have room to lay down without getting in it. Maybe if I shorten up the option and don't give him as much room to move about, he'll be less likely to do that.

I'm looking forward to my few days off coming up in a week or so. I plan to stick around the house as much as possible and keep a good eye on him.

I will definitely have the vet check him out as well, though.

Thanks for the advice and ideas!

[signorelli21]

yea definately try the crate again, i got mine at walmart for 55 dollars that is pretty large but comes with a divider so you can make it however large or small you want it. i bet he will stop messing in his cage if he has to lay in it.

you have any picures of him? i love pit bulls

[butrrfly23]

Ok, here's a picture of both our beasties sleeping side by side on their blankey. The reddish dog on the left is Ginger, a Rhodesian Ridgeback/Lab mix, and Roscoe is the Pit Bull, the little Buckskin on the right. I think he has a lot of Staffie in him because of the shape of his snout.