would you ever dock a dogs tail? [Archive]

Vela

03-07-2007, 08:21 AM

I would not dock it just to dock it, just like I don't do ears on my dogs, but honestly, at 3 days old, which is when they dock tails, the nerve endings haven't completely developed, nor the bone structure, and it's not nearly like amputating a full grown dog's tail. I personally would not do it if my dogs didn't come like that (except for medical reasons obvoiusly), but I dont find it nearly as cruel as doing the ears because at 3 days old they really don't have the same issues with it that an older dog does and it heals over within a day or two, providing it's done properly by a vet under sterile conditions and proper care is taken.

sprokett

03-07-2007, 08:28 AM

Yes. Though poodles' tails are not docked to the degree that a rottweilers or other dog's tail are docked, about one third of the length of their tails are cut as puppies.

and hurt the pups awwwwww :(

lute

03-07-2007, 08:30 AM

I don't own any dogs with docked tails. If a docking job is done it should be done when the puppy is only 2-3 days old. Done properly by a vet. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. No one should ever atempt it with their own dog! That would be cruel! I have nothing against it IF it's done properly.

I'm starting to see some breeds in the conformation ring with natural tails. I keep running into a handler and a rottie with a tail. I've seen a couple boxers too. I don't pay much attention to the smaller breeds.

(Just a quick lil story. When Houston's breeder and I took the pups to the vet to get their dew claws removed the vet played a nasty trick on the breeder. We brought the puppies out and he said "the tail dockings went very well!" I thought the breeder was gonna scream.LOL could you imagin a whole litter of docked Siberian Huskies?!)

pitc9

03-07-2007, 08:31 AM

I would never have my dogs tail or ears cut off.

I would adopt or rescue dogs that had that done already.

sprokett

03-07-2007, 08:44 AM

people say that they dont mind it if it is done properly
but there is no proper way to cut of a dogs tail!!!

Taz_Zoee

03-07-2007, 09:01 AM

I would not personally dock a dogs tail. But I am not opposed to having a dog with a docked tail (obviously). Like someone else stated, if it is done when they are only days old, it is not as painful and of course they do not remember it. Just like parents having their daughter's ears pierced, I think of it along those same lines.
Unfortunately, I can see this thread getting ugly, and I hope it doesn't go there.

SunsetRose

03-07-2007, 09:11 AM

No, i'm against docking and cropping.

The only reason I find it necessary is if you have a litter of potential show quality puppies and the tails must be docked to show them. Otherwise, no.

Same with cropping. If the pup is show quality and is going to be shown and the ears must be cropped to standard.

k9krazee

03-07-2007, 09:37 AM

I voted yes and no.

I personally own four (out of 5) dogs with docked tails.

I felt I couldn't just vote no, because when Kyra's litter was born "we" chose to dock the tails of the pups. We honestly didn't think there was any other option at the time, they're jack russell terriers, and jack russell terriers are "supposed" to have docked tails. We also had their dew claws removed, because, once again, we thought it was necessary. However, after watching the procedure, I won't do it again.

I'm not totally against docking (ear cropping is another story), but if the situation ever arose where I had a choice, I definitely wouldn't want it done.

Canis-Lupess

03-07-2007, 09:42 AM

Only for therapeutic reasons....ie. the tail is damaged beyond repair.

I don't agree with docking puppies just in case they "might", injure their tails when they are older and certainly not for cosmetic reasons which is the main reason most dogs are docked these days.
I am a member of the anti-docking alliance which demonstrates how against this practise I am.

I don't really like the look of dogs without tails anyway. They remind me of arctic trucks with no trailor on the back...could fall on their face at any time. A tail makes them look more balanced and attractive. Without a tail, they look forward heavy.

I have read a report by an Australian vet that says that there is good evidence that the pups do feel the pain of having their tails docked and just because they might not actually show it...ie..show visible response to pain, that doesn't mean they aren't feeling it. Many pups bleed to death, end up having to be re-docked or are left with lifelong problems because of docking.

Here is a useful link for anyone against docking.
http://anti-dockingalliance.co.uk/page_13.htm

It's uk based but they'll welcome anyone to join.

CathyBogart

03-07-2007, 09:55 AM

I voted yes ONLY BECAUSE there are dogs out there like my aunt's dog who constantly injures his tail banging it on stuff. He's never injured it seriously, but 5-6 times a year he hurts it and is in pain for a week or so while it heals.

*Personally* I feel that a one-time surgery to remove part of his tail would be preferable to spending over a month out of the year, every year, fighting to keep a bandage o nhis tail and the abrasion wounds clean.

In general though, just because the breed is "supposed" to have a docked tail (wouldn't they be born that way if they were supposed to??) absolutely not. If you think it doesn't hurt a three day old puppy to have part of their spine cut off, go watch the procedure sometime.

Lori Jordan

03-07-2007, 09:56 AM

I have an Australian Shepherd,And her with a tail would not be the same,With the breed some have Natural Bobs,Which Lacy does.

But the thing i do not understand,A friend owns Rotti's and they put elastics on there tales,Is this what they all do now???

Canis-Lupess

03-07-2007, 10:06 AM

When puppies are docked, they tend to do one of two things. The first is simply to chop the tail off with scissors, the second is to tie elastic bands around them so tight the blood circulation is cut off and the tail dies and drops off. Can you imagine doing this to the little finger of a human baby?
I can't imagine the pain being much different really. They can't use anaesthetic on puppies that young so they have to deal with whatever pain they feel.

In the UK, most vets won't dock and they can't anyway because the royal college of veterinary surgeons is opposed to it and will strike any vet off their register if they are found to have docked puppies for non therapeutic reasons.

Docking by the lay man, unqualified person, is illegal but thats mainly who docking is done by here now because most of the vets refuse to do it. Breeders do it themselves and insist they are doing it right but, how would they know, they aren't qualified or had any professional training?

At the end of April, docking is being banned in England apart from certain working dogs that are being exempt. Scotland has gone for a complete ban. They'll not be allowing dogs to go over the border into the UK to be docked and taken back either.
No docked dogs will be able to be shown at any paying dog show either.

I don't mind dogs that are born with naturally bobbed tails because they don't have to actually have it chopped off. I know there are some breeders in Europe breeding specifically for naturally bobbed tails in several breeds in countries that have already enforced a ban on docking. If it turns out ok, then all's well but I do worry a little about what other impacts such select breeding could have on the dogs. :(

TFTpwnsYou

03-07-2007, 10:14 AM

I voted yes because well I do own one with a docked tail. I read about the proceedure because I just thought that would hurt. It really doesn't. Puppies don't have the feeling pain capability as just a few days old when the docking takes place. Now I cannot personally dock a tail because a.) I don't breed, and b.) I would not trust myself to do it even if I did. To me that is better left to a vet who knows what they are doing.

Docking has very good reasons though. Especially for field and hunting dogs. I saw the damage done to a tail of a non-docked hunting dog. Now that would hurt. Now a small breed like mine I never understood, but it is the standered, and I truthfully look at him, and I think he'd look funny with a tail....lol.

cali

03-07-2007, 10:18 AM

I would and have adopted a dog with an already docked tail. but I would never dock or drop myself, I have one breed(Blair) who is supposed to be both docked and cropped, I have him completly natural, and I prefer it that way.

sprokett

03-07-2007, 10:25 AM

luvofallhorses

03-07-2007, 10:26 AM

NO!!! unless the tail is broken and has to be removed.
I wouldn't crop a dog's ears or declaw a cat either.
Would I adopt a dog with an already docked tail? of course!
same goes for adopting a cat that is declawed and a dog that
already has cropped ears.

cassiesmom

03-07-2007, 10:28 AM

I have a former co-worker who kept her Great Dane's ears un-cropped. I wouldn't do either unless there were some medical reason for having it done.

lute

03-07-2007, 10:34 AM

But the thing i do not understand,A friend owns Rotti's and they put elastics on there tales,Is this what they all do now???
NO WAY! they should take the pups to a vet and have it surgically done! What they are doing with the elastics is cruel.

sprokett

03-07-2007, 10:42 AM

well how i feel about it is

if the dog was made to have a docked it would be born that way
who cares if it can not be shown if you have a dog to purely show
then i say you should not have a dog.
alot of people say that the puppys cannot feel it at a few days old
how would we know are we dogs????? NO!!!! of course not!!!
yes, i would adopt/rehome a do with a docked tail
no, i would not dock a dog tail my self could you imagine how
much pain those puppy's go through to be able to be showed

applesmom

03-07-2007, 10:49 AM

No I wouldn't have an adult dogs tail docked for cosmetic reasons, and I would never attempt to dock a puppy's tail on my own. That's a vets job.

However there are some breeds whose tails are docked for valid reasons and I support their reasons for docking.

Here are a couple of links to the other side of the discussion.

Vizla club on docking (http://www.trader.co.nz/vizsla/docking/)

Scottish study on tail docking (http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/committees/environment/inquiries/ahw/ScottishKennelClub.pdf)

BitsyNaceyDog

03-07-2007, 11:23 AM

I personally wouldn't have a dogs tail docked unless there was a medical reason to do so. I would however adopt a dog with an already docked tail, in fact I have- my Min Pin, Charlie, has a docked tail. I do like the look of a docked tail, however I don't think that is a good enough reason to have it done.

king2005

03-07-2007, 12:05 PM

I have no issues with a vet doing the docking. I dissagree with cropping however. But I'm all for male human babies having thier foreskin cut off.

lute

03-07-2007, 12:09 PM

if you have a dog to purely show
then i say you should not have a dog.

that's a little silly. From what I've witnessed show dogs are some of the most spoiled dogs ever.

Kfamr

03-07-2007, 12:13 PM

No - I would never have a dog's tail docked. However, If a dog's tail was docked and I were to adopt it, it wouldn't stop me.

It's just not a procedure I agree with having done for cosmetics. If a dog needed it's tail amputated, that's fine.

areias

03-07-2007, 12:17 PM

I eventually (in the far-off future) will have a Doberman-and yes, it's tail will be docked. Skye (my pointer mix) has a long thin tail and is constantly opening the end of it. It hurts us too, lol!

I have docked a puppies tail, myself, under the supervision of a vet and it honestly wasn't a big deal.

I would never crop ears.

Twisterdog

03-07-2007, 12:19 PM

I have never had a dog's tail docked. I have several dogs with docked tails, because I rescue a breed (smooth fox terriers) that have docked tails by breed standard.

Most likely, I will never buy a purebred dog as a puppy that gets a docked tail, so the point is rather moot. I will probably end up always getting my dogs through rescue or adoption as adults.

But, if I were to buy a puppy of a breed that normally gets its tail docked, then yes, it would be done. Tail docking is not cruel. It is done when the puppies are a day or so old. It is very quick, like two seconds, literally. I've seen it done. It heals quickly, and the puppies are too young to lick it and cause problems. I am quite sure the 24 hour old puppy has absolutely no recollection or lasting trauma from the two second procedure. It is, honestly, just like having your human baby boy circumsized.

I like the look of docked tails on certain breeds. IMHO, a cocker spaniel or a Jack Russell or a fox terrier simply does not look the same with a long tail.

I am, however, not in favor of ear cropping, for me personally. That is an entirely different thing, IMO. Ear cropping is an involved, painful procedure done when the dog is much older. It takes a long time to heal, and the dog must be kept from scratching or rubbing its ears. In many case, this requires wearing an elizabethian collar for some time.

To each their own. Honestly, if someone loves their pet and provides it a good home ... who cares if they like docked tails or not? That is the LEAST of many dogs' worries. If you don't like it, don't do it. But if you do like it, go ahead. It's not cruel, it doesn't make you a 'bad pet owner' by any means. IMO, docking is a very, very small issue in the global issue of animal/pet problems.

sprokett

03-07-2007, 12:27 PM

that's a little silly. From what I've witnessed show dogs are some of the most spoiled dogs ever.

well yes but you would NOT have a dog to show
you should have a dog to enjoy care and give
it a good life not for shows

dab_20

03-07-2007, 01:00 PM

No one should personally dock their pup's tails themselves. It should be done by a vet at 2-3 days old in sterile conditions. If I had the choice, I would never have my pups tail to be docked. Sammy's tail was docked as a pup, but I didn't choose it, and it would not stop me from getting him.

Now, with ear cropping, it's a whole different story. I'm totally against that... can you imagine how painful it is? :(

applesmom

03-07-2007, 01:10 PM

well yes but you would NOT have a dog to show
you should have a dog to enjoy care and give
it a good life not for shows

These are two of my show dogs. Do they look unloved or like they aren't enjoying life? :D

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c360/applesmom/mydogs2.jpg

cyber-sibes

03-07-2007, 01:12 PM

Personally I think some breeds look & function better with docked tail, so I don't object to tail docking. It was done originally in working dogs, because of the work they did. I never could figure out if my Rosie had a naturally short tail or if it had been docked (she was a rottie-aus. shep. x), but I loved her cute little tail.
I really prefer natural ears to cropped. I don't think I'd ever have a dogs ears cropped.

sprokett

03-07-2007, 01:13 PM

These are two of my show dogs. Do they look unloved or like they aren't enjoying life? :D

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c360/applesmom/mydogs2.jpg

no i adore your dogs i just dont think you
should have a dog purely to show i know
your dogs are loved

lute

03-07-2007, 01:23 PM

well yes but you would NOT have a dog to show
you should have a dog to enjoy care and give
it a good life not for shows
I got my Siberian Husky for show purposes only. That doesn't make her less of a pet to me. I'll someday have another Great Dane for show purposes only. He/She will be a pet too. so saying that if you get a dog for shows, you shouldn't own a dog doesn't make sense.

sprokett

03-07-2007, 01:24 PM

i do not want this thread to turn in to a squabble no i do
not like docked dog tails but that my opinion

Husky15

03-07-2007, 01:55 PM

i just dont think you
should have a dog purely to show
Are you trying to say that you do not agree with people getting a dog just for show and not caring about it otherwise? I, myself, see nothing wrong with getting a dog for show, just as long as it is loved and taken care of just as much as a dog that's not for show. :)

As for tail-docking, I'm not sure what my answer would be. I mean, I love the look of the Doberman and Boxer with a docked tail (although I love the look of them with a full-lengthed tail as well). I guess I'd just have to make that decision if the time ever came.

Flatcoatluver

03-07-2007, 02:10 PM

As long as it is done at a proper age and at a vet's office I am fine with it. I voted No, because you asked would you ever do it. I wouldn't, but my future breed's tails are docked (poodle). I will never breed either, so I would never be in this situation.

Pam

03-07-2007, 04:00 PM

I
But, if I were to buy a puppy of a breed that normally gets its tail docked, then yes, it would be done. Tail docking is not cruel. It is done when the puppies are a day or so old. ...... It is, honestly, just like having your human baby boy circumsized.

Honestly, if someone loves their pet and provides it a good home ... who cares if they like docked tails or not? That is the LEAST of many dogs' worries.

Thank you for that!! My thoughts exactly! Personally I prefer the look of poodles with docked tails. The pom on the end would just not work on a full length tail. If there was a non-docked poodle who needed a home, though, their appearance would not stop me from adopting them.

I immediately thought of the similarity to a circumcision. (sp?) I put my son through that and he doesn't hate me today. :p Really, like Twisterdog said, it is more about the care you give AFTER you take that pet into your home.

Tollers-n-Dobes

03-07-2007, 05:37 PM

I voted no, but not at all because I think it's cruel (I'm very neutral on the subject, and don't really care one way or another - I feel it's up to the owner and/or breeder). I just much prefer dogs with long tails. I am against docking totally if it is done by anyone besides an experienced veterinarian, but if it's done properly, like I said, I'm neutral on the subject. I'm about the same with ear cropping too.

I also wanted to add that there isn't a whole lot that bothers me more when it comes to my dogs than when I post a thread of Winston (who is both cropped & docked, but we adopted him that way) and all I get is "that is so cruel", "he would look so much better natural", etc. This isn't anything against anyone, but really, even if you're totally against one or both surgeries, there is zero need to announce that in someone's thread about their very well loved dog (I mentioned this because I've noticed people making such comments recently in a few threads). Unless it's a docking debate thread, please keep your thoughts to yourself.

Kalei

03-07-2007, 07:35 PM

Nope I wouldn't, I love doggies natural long tails!:D

mike001

03-07-2007, 08:21 PM

Nope never, unless it was a medical emergency that had to be done.

wolf_Q

03-07-2007, 08:28 PM

Of course I would never *personally* dock a dogs tail, it needs to be done at a vet. I honestly do not agree with cropping or docking, but I do think cropping is much worse. If a dog came to me docked, then that is fine. Sydney has a docked tail, actually all of the dogs we've had until Nebo had docked tails. Some breeds are very difficult to find without docked tails since its done when they are young. I don't agree with altering a dogs appearance for cosmetic reasons, if it is truely for a medical reason that's the only way I'll agree with it.

cyber-sibes

03-07-2007, 08:34 PM

Personally I prefer the look of poodles with docked tails. The pom on the end would just not work on a full length tail. Duh! Pam, I just learned something - I didn't know that they docked poodles' tails! I thought they just naturally had short tails. One more cool thing I learned on PT! ;) Thanks.

SunsetRose

03-08-2007, 01:57 AM

well yes but you would NOT have a dog to show
you should have a dog to enjoy care and give
it a good life not for shows

I'm not sure if you have ever owned a show dog, but there is more to showing a dog than just taking it in a ring. A dog who is not loved and cared for and enjoyed as a pet will not make a good show dog. People who get dogs "just to show" are still taking extremely good care of their dogs and they are enjoying their dogs and loving them as much as you love and care for yours. It takes alot of patience, training and love to get a dog to do well in the ring. A dog can conform perfectly, but it is worthless as a show dog if it is shy and unconfident.

Canis-Lupess

03-08-2007, 12:52 PM

I still don't think dogs should have their ears or tails chopped off just so that they can win shows for their owners though. I mean, dogs don't give a toss whether they win or not. In fact, they don't care if they never see a show ring so showing them isn't for their personal benefit, it's all about the owner.

I'm not saying that showing is cruel as such, I just don't think it is right to mutilate dogs just so that they can win shows for you.