Chewy, I need elp on the most important decision ever

[aly]

Hi Ash,

Here's the bottom line: you know Chewy and we don't. It is my first instinct to beg you not to put him down. But after having worked with some aggressive dogs in shelters over the years, I am starting to understand that some dogs are just ... aggressive. I know you've been struggling with this for a long time and have even had professional help. I applaud you for trying to fix the problem for so long. Maybe a behviorist and a new environment could fix him, but maybe not.

Many people decide to just keep aggressive dogs but they'll keep them locked up all the time so they don't have to deal with it. That is no life for a dog and sometimes they are better off laid to rest (I can't even believe I'm saying all this - its so hard for me).

At the end of the day, the decision is yours and your family's. I know Chewy is so young, but some of the things you describe have been really scary and don't seem like normal puppy behavior. What if he gets older and gets 10 times worse?

I would tell you to seek second and third opinions and so forth, but I think you have done that.

Its just so hard for us to judge because we can't see it. I'm sure its much worse for you to witness and it might not sound so bad when you type it on the computer because people are removed from the situation.

Oh yeah, never hit or use physical violence on an aggressive dog. 99.99% of the time it makes it muuuuuuuch worse.

So anyway, what I'm trying to tell you - don't feel bad about your decision. You are the one in the situation who knows all the details and all the horrific experiences. Not letting go of a child's arm is VERY VERY VERY bad. Please feel confident and seek comfort knowing that you made the best decision you could. I know you would not put him down if not absolutely necessary. I'm crying so much right now. I'm a big softie who believes every dog should live ... but I am starting to understand and become less naive about just some dogs need to be put down poor Chewy.

My prayers are with you. I know it will be very hard. Please spoil him for his last days

** sorry I sound like a babbling idiot - hope you get the gist of the message though

[slleipnir]

I agree. I SERIOUSLY think you should consider giving him to someone who maybe knows more about it rather then putting him down, I don't think thats fair to him..I know he's bitey and all, but I duno..

[luckies4me]

I don't believe you are doing the right thing putting him down so early.


When I worked as a trainer there were a lot of dogs there who needed stern discipline the right way. Yes we get bit, but that is our job and that is what we are trained to do. You can't just take one persons word as gospel, your trainer is only one out of money who would be willing to help.


Maybe your home is just not the right home for him....that shouldn't have to condemn him to death should it? I do believe you care for Chewy a great deal but please give him a chance with another trainer or rescue. We see TONS of dogs, and a lot nip.bite/bark/dig etc, but most can be trained to stop that disruptive behavior. If after seeing other trainers etc. he does not get better, then make the decision. Every dog deserves a second chance, or more.

Do you know dogs could smell feel? They will sometimes bite because of that.

There are also drugs that could help him get better. Just because your family is not the one who can meet his special needs doesn't mean there is one out there who can't.


Please give him another chance.

[aly]

Ash has given him a lot of chances. This isn't new behavior from him. I really do not think that she made a snap decision at all. I'd be the last person to support her if I thought she was acting too quickly. Also from what she describes, that is not normal nipping/biting/etc .. he wouldn't let go of a child's arm. That is pretty severe. I know she doesn't take this decision lightly and she's probably off right now crying her eyes out.

The best we can do is support her through this tough time I *think* she did say she was going to call other trainers or behaviorists for advice. Not quite sure though.

I have had internships with some applied animal behaviorists - one of them specializing in aggression - and I really think Chewy sounds aggressive beyond help. You would think its because of his breed, but his breed just has nipping tendencies since they're herders. Not letting go is another thing

[luckies4me]

Could it be that he nipped and then had the jacket in his mouth and thought it would be fun to wrestle with it?


It doesn't sound like she consulted any other behaviorists besides her current one.


As a herder he is probably just trying to "round them up" so to speak. Perhaps a home where he can act out those tendencies naturally would be a big help to him, he could reflect those feeling in a positive matter.

Send him to a farm...I am sure there are a lot of people out there who would be willing to put his nipping skills to work.


I just think she should talk to people who are experienced with his type before making that decision, I would hate to have them regret it later.

[aly]

Well I thought she did. I don't know. I will let her respond so I don't give false info.

[luckies4me]

I am sorry if I am seeming cruel or non supportive Ash, whatever decision you make I will fully support you.


Aly, it's just that I have seen this so many times. Dogs trying to play when owners mistake it as agression (not saying this is the case) hearding dogs acting out what is only natural to them, dogs who have a hidden infection/arthritus etc. who snap because they are in pain etc. There can be so many causes. If he is truly agressive and no treatment can help him then yes he should be put down and that will ultimately be the best decision for him and his family.


I remember watching animal planet and this family was on with their shepherd mix dog. The dog was laying on the floor in the kitchen when the couples daughter went to pet the dog. The dog bit her and she needed stitches. They were going to euthanize the dog but first consulted with a vet who ran tests and found out the dog suffered from terrible arthritus and had to have surgery. The dog was in a lot of pain and did not bite out of agression, simply pain. Well the spared the dogs life and a couple of months later there was a big fire and the dog saved the family and girl from death. The dog went into the girls room and woke her up, and she than woke up her parents who got out of the house safely. If it weren't for the dog they would have died. His barking saved their life.

Now I am not saying Chewy is a life saver lol, this was just a little story to show that maybe there is another cause behind his nipping. You never know.

[aly]

Originally posted by luckies4me

Aly, it's just that I have seen this so many times. Dogs trying to play when owners mistake it as agression (not saying this is the case) hearding dogs acting out what is only natural to them, dogs who have a hidden infection/arthritus etc. who snap because they are in pain etc. There can be so many causes. If he is truly agressive and no treatment can help him then yes he should be put down and that will ultimately be the best decision for him and his family.

Yes, I've been working at shelters enough years that I have seen this way too much too. I don't know if you've been following her posts, but this has been going on for a long time. Just a lot of what she describes doesn't sound like herding behavior - some of it does like when she is running and he bites her. But not all of it does.

I think we agree that if he is truly aggressive, the best thing to do would be to put him down. And if its just herding stuff, he would definately be better off in rescue. Maybe Ash can describe more circumstances in this thread to give everyone a better understanding.

[luckies4me]

Thanks, I am glad we understand eachother.

[Twisterdog]

I have refrained from replying to most of your posts regarding Chewy until now, because it seemed to me that you weren't quite ready to hear my sure-to-be-unpopular opinion on this matter.

I own a boarding kennel and grooming shop, and have been on the board of directors at the humane society for the past seven years. Before that I volunteered in various capacities at a couple humane societies in different parts of the country, since 1986. I have also done pet-sitting and dog training, and have co-led a 4-H dog club. So, in short, I have quite of bit of experience with dogs.

My personal opinion on your dog is that the best thing you can do at this point, for both your family and the dog, is to euthanize him. Obviously, from your posts over many months, you have worked hard on reforming this dog, both on your own and with a behaviorist. It seems to me that instead of getting better, your dog has actually gotten worse, despite your best efforts.

Some dogs can't be "fixed", no matter what we try. Just like some people can be helped. It's a sad, sad fact of life. A dog that continues to exhibit aggession to humans despite behavior modification and training is indeed a liability, to himself and his owners. Your dog is a lawsuit and/or medical bill waiting to happen. It is not natural or normal for a dog to be aggressive to humans ... if it were, they would not be the beloved, trusted pet that they are today, with millions and millions of dogs living in houses with families and children. Some dogs just aren't "wired right", though, and as tragic as it is, the best and most humane thing one can is to put them out of their psychological misery.

I know this is a hard, hard thing for you to do. I have been there, and had to do it, so I know first hand what you are going through. I had to take a rottweiler to the vet and have him euthanized for the same reason - ongoing and progressive aggression towards humans. It was very, very hard to do ... and he wasn't even technically my dog, he was a dog at our shelter. You need to keep in mind, however, that you are doing the kindest and most prudent thing for the dog, and your family. Sometimes the best choices in life are the hardest to make.

[wolfsoul]

take obedience clsses? a muzzle? shock collar?
i understand that u r concerned about the ppl around u getting hurt...i dont know anyone who hasnt even had the thought of putting down cross their mind, and i know some who have even considered it, including me, so i dont blame u at all....
i think that obedience classes r the best way to go...
but if u really think that putting him down is the right thing to do, then i will go with ur decision....chewy is ur dog and so its ur choice, and ur the only one here who knows for sure whats best for him

[delidog]

Have you tried to e-mail Best Friends...they work wonders with dogs...and have animal behaviorists on staff there....
go to bestfriends.org
look into their organization...it might help

or [email protected]
she is a good contact person.....

at least try for yours and Chewys' sake.....
aussies' are VERY nippy dogs by nature...they are Bred to Bite the heels of cattle...Heelers have the same issues....
perhaps,she is acting out her natural instincts....

maybe I'm grasping at straws....but a short e-mail couldn't hurt right?????

good luck....God Bless you and Dear Chewy

[Aspen and Misty]

He is NOT nipping. Teddy nips and I know what that is like. Chewy's bites to kill not to play tug of war or anything. When he grabed her coat he didn't move his head he just grabed it and held on for dear life. When he attacked Teddy he bit to kill, not to play or to nip.

Thank you Aly, Twisterdog and everyone else who have been supportive. This is not easy for me and I really need to support right now. I'm still looking for options and am playing on calling some behaviorist in State college to see what they say about it. Although, I can't call every trainer in the US just to see what they think I will try to call a couple to see what they think. I'm also going to talk to my vet and see what he says. I am calling people, I don't want Chewy to die, I really don't. I know he is young, but I have tried everything else. I know many of you disagree with this and are probly mad that I'm killing an animal who has a chance at life, but its not going to be a normal life, he would have to be caged all the time and its not fair to him.

Ash

[wolf_Q]

Oh...this thread is going to make me cry. This is not a new behavior for Chewy, and I honestly do not think it is just the nipping/herding tendencies of the Aussie either. I thought that originally she thought he might be part westie, and if that's true...terriers can also be very bitey, and that would not be a good combination. Chewy is also a young dog, and his behavior doesn't seem normal.

I know that Ash loves Chewy very, very much. And she really has worked with him, socialized him, taken him to trainers...she has tried so hard to work with his aggression problems...



Ash, I hope you will at least first contact the person at Best Friends first though...I think it's a good idea. They'll take in animals to live there for the remainder of their lives, even animals that can't be adopted.

I just want to let you know, that whatever you do, I'm behind you. I know you love Chewy and you always will love him. I wish there was something I could do to help.

[zippy-kat]

Ash,

As Aly said, *YOU* know the situation best. With that thought, I support you 100% in whatever you do.

{{If you need to talk, I'm only a PM away.}}