How about an opinion on THIS letter about VH1's bad taste show!?

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by Ann
I haven't seen this show since VH1 doesn't exist in Sweden, so I really can't judge. But however, prison is hell and a lot of the people in there are innocent. That's all I'm gonna say on the subject since I haven't seen the show.

Ann- if my math serves me correctly, you are 18 years old, right?
So, I ask the same question of you that I did of Popcornbird.... What are you basing your comment above on? While I don't know Sweden's criminal justice system, I am thinking you probably have NOT been in prison? Again, as an 18 year old, I don't know how much time you have spent amongst prisoners..so, I just don't know where you get your statements from.

As someone in the legal system- seeing firsthand the criminal justice system in the United States, "alot of the people in there are innocent" is a bunch of poo-poo. The sad fact is that ALOT of people are NOT convicted because the prosecution CANNOT meet the burden of proof, that in numerical terms, equates to 99%. I can also assure you (and I think Soledad) that, AGAIN, with first hand knowledge, prison is NOT as bad as one might think. Keep in mind that it is punishment (ah...different from deterrence, ).
It is not supposed to be a blessed experience. Three squares a day, clean water in which to bathe, minimal health care, a roof over the head, blanket, cot to sleep on, air/heat. There are people here in the US...including children, that don't have it that good.

As to the 8th amendment...cruel and unusual punishment...that has been abolished. Life time sentances are not C & U (except to the family of the victim....).

As to policitcans/government...I agree with Soledad- it is a thankless job, trying to serve the majority. While we can't lock up every violent offender..I support the death penalty, not as a deterrent, but as a punishment. No, I don't want to be the one to administer the lethal injection, that is a job best left to the executioner. Maybe we should release the 'victimless crime' convicts...prostitutes, drug abusers (not necessarily the dealers)...comes to mind..but, that too, has some soceital issues, doesn't it?

Soledad...I hear you now, in my mind's ear..Cataholic..why do you have to be so rough? And, I don't have a good answer for you. I agree that things cannot be broken down so simply...that there is much underlying issues that result in today's problems..jail management, over population, welfare, ignorance, poverty...and that I do sit here in remote removal from the hard facts of life..I read about it more than I immerse myself in it. But, as a part time prosecutor..I don't think lighter, less restraining punishment is the answer. Maybe, it is more cats for everyone.

[Soledad]

I did not say that keeping someone in for life is c &u, but referring to other times on this board when people have demanded criminals be tortured, starved, etc. It's popped up before, and it's something I find frightening as I thought we were slightly more evolved than that.

My problem with justice related arguments on Pettalk, is that it always seems to become embarassingly simplistic and based on some show someone saw. Everyone can have opinions on anything they want, but when they have basically no specific knowledge in the area they're criticising, and yet still feel that they are absolutely correct, I get angry.

I don't mind if someone who has researched things/studied the topic and comes to a different conclusion than myself. But I do care when people who have no idea about the system feel they are qualified to administer justice.

I believe there are people in jail who are innocent, but there are far more guilty ones inside as well as innocent outside. The system can never be perfect, and I accept that.

However, I think many people feel that if they watch some expose on 60 minutes about ONE jail that has cable tv, that all jails are five star hotels. That's just ignorant. Jails vary greatly, and while many may be decent places (as they should be) just as many jails are rundown nightmares where personal safety is constantly in jeopardy (by way of murder, beatings, rapes).

From my own researsh I believe the best way to defeat crime is through providing jobs, education, etc. But that's not what people want to hear, they just want to increase punishment.

I am morally opposed to the death penalty, as I do not feel that the state (especially as of now) is in any way qualified to determine who lives and dies.

[Nomilynn]

I used to agree with the death penalty until I watched "The Green Mile" That movie REALLY openend my eyes. I'm not saying that people don't deserve to be punished, but I not look at capital punishment as a much more grey area than I did before.

[NoahsMommy]

I took a Criminal Justice class a few semesters ago and read a case where criminals were put in a "chain gang" environment. Studies showed that the "participants" learned to work together and bonded...which was quite interesting, but not surprising. The study also revealed a lot about coercion, which seems obvious to me, it's prision. Basically, I think the people in jail need to experience something like this...actually DOING something to benefit the outside world while they are living free on our tax dollars. They should have to do something...plant trees, build things, etc. Something that makes use of their time...
They may do this now and I am unaware...all I have to go on is what I've read about.

A story...my father-in-law was a gang member in New York when he was young and parentless. He tells us stories (Gradually, because he is NOT proud of who he was before he received the Lord.) about his life back then and his time in jail. He said that one night, the prisoners were in the "TV Room" and wanted to watch an hour more. The gaurds said that is was time to go back to their cells. Basically, they rioted and got their way. This story upsets me...I'm glad they are in there learning their lesson...respecting authority obviously was not on that list.

Anyway...this VH1 show sounds horrible. I for one, will not be watching that channel, ever.

Another annoyance....the three strike law...we have that here in California. There are some happenings going on right now in our government to render it cruel and unusual or make the third charge a major crime. Um...I'm sorry, but if first you rape someone (go to jail), then rob a bank (go to jail) and then six months later feel you have to STEAL a carton of cigarettes, you obviously didn't learn anything and deserve to stay in prison forever.

My opinion on the subject includes mental help. To me, if a person is able to kill, injure, hurt and/or steal there is something mentally wrong with them. I'd like to see more of these people in a mental ward first and then transferred to prison for restitution. My brother was hit hard by my parent's divorce and some how can "morally" commit crimes like stealing and breaking into people's homes. That isn't normal behavior and while he ISN'T a violent person, still committed acts like this when he was a juvenile. He spent three months in juvenile hall and was "good" for eights months...enter a new step-dad and there he goes again. Now, please tell me there isn't anything mentally going on in this kids head. When we start to diagnose and TREAT these problems is when our system will change.

OK, don't attack me....these are just my beliefs.

[moosmom]

You tell 'em Mugsy!! I'm with you on this. Why the hell should they put murderers and such in the limelight?? If there is any money to be made, put it in a trust for their victims. And I mean that for ALL criminals!! My cousin's husband was murdered in cold blood so that kind of stuff hits very close to home.

[mugsy]

I guess I feel that people who commit violent crimes are not IMMORAL, they are even scarier....they're AMMORAL.

Thanks Donna for the support. You ought to write them a letter also...maybe we can get this trash off of TV and for those who want to hear them play can go to prison and listen to them.

[NoahsMommy]

My reference to my brother "morally" doing something meant he felt it was OK to do...does that make sense?

[Cataholic]

Well, it seems, as usual, we are more alike and similar in our beliefs, then different. Noahsmommy, I agree, mental help is huge! And, I do think it matters when a youngin is brought up in an environment that lacks morals and values- the simple ones- don't kill, steal, disrespect, learn to earn a living, etc. That child hasn't seen the other side..so, no point in just sticking him/her away without re-educating them, adjusting their mental view of society.

Soledad- I am in total agreement with you, largely, and specifically, in the area of spouting off opinions without the proper fundamental basis for expressing them. But, didn't you kind of get poopy with me for going after Popcornbird for that very same thing? I am not mad..I promise, and I am kind of teasing you..I think your main thing with that situation was the way I went about it...and I did try to be the kinder softer Cataholic when I did it here again with Ann...

But, I do think it is good we express our opinions, because in this forum, we see a vast spectrum of opinions, and it is here where we can learn, grow, and learn to defend our positions.

Sorry Mugsy Pugsy that we took over your thred!!!

[mugsy]

Hey no problem Catty Cathy!! lol

[ramanth]

Mugsy, I think the letter is good.

I hope the show gets yanked.

[mugsy]

Thanks Kimmy!!! With as much negative press as they have had and had 3 of their major sponsers yank ads from the show, they may be getting a clue.

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by Cataholic
Well, it seems, as usual, we are more alike and similar in our beliefs, then different. Noahsmommy, I agree, mental help is huge! And, I do think it matters when a youngin is brought up in an environment that lacks morals and values- the simple ones- don't kill, steal, disrespect, learn to earn a living, etc. That child hasn't seen the other side..so, no point in just sticking him/her away without re-educating them, adjusting their mental view of society.

And interesting thing, re: my brother. My mom is very strict when it comes to morals and doing the right thing...even after you've messed up. (I, personally have "Dr. Laura" type standards and morals) To this day I think that the reason he is the way he is, is because of the impact of the divorce on him. He tested my parents love and lost...I would be very interested to see what type of childhoods many of the people in jail had...

[Corinna]

I 'm glad to hear that I'm not the only "factor fan"I have been dealing with some small court stuff with my daughter (drunk driver hit her then ran after sentencing) I am getting so disgusted with the whole justuse system . We have space problem here so they are letting 250 guys out that arn't even up for peroll for years. the day i sat in on a local court I saw 14 young people get a TALKING to for DUI. No wonder we have so many drunks kill people here in Montana.
I have not got cable (only get NBC) so haven't seen the show but can imagine it as to what we have out there now that the kids are listening too. Prison was set up as punishment for bad behavior when did it become an badge of courage ? I don't like my tax dollars funding this stuff, I think the chain gang and work farms in Texas are the best answer let them pay for the punishment also let them raise they own food for the prison learn a few skills. Not being jailhouse lawyers!!!!!Choking up our legal system.
Sorry guys but I have a very strong feelings about this subject thanks muggys for the palce to vent.

[Soledad]

You have very Dr. Laura type morals?? Shocking, considering she not only cheated on her husband with a married man, but allowed her married lover to photograph her nude...

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by Soledad
You have very Dr. Laura type morals?? Shocking, considering she not only cheated on her husband with a married man, but allowed her married lover to photograph her nude...

Let's put it this way....I believe in a lot of the advice she gives her callers. I don't know whats happened in her personal life, but I think a lot of it is untrue. I do know she's a huge advocate for children and doing the right thing...both are very important to me.