What am I not doing?

[K9soul]

I haven't been around here for some time, but I stopped by for a browse today and your post caught my eye.

I'm going to stray from popular opinion here and say that maybe you should back off a bit on the testing/dominance type things at mealtime. Growling is not always a sign of a dog thinking they are the leader. It's also a purely defensive gesture. I have 3 dogs, and my most submissive dog will most definitely growl defensively if he feels cornered and that he might lose his meal to my more dominant girl. As an aside, an interesting thing about this is my oldest and the one who is at the top of the pack order between them NEVER tries to take food or bones away from the other two. It's my middle girl who pushes more than she should. She never asserts her control or dominance by taking something that has been given to the others.

Anyway, it's possible if you do this at every feeding or most feedings that you are creating an anxious and defensive feeling environment for her when she is trying to eat. Some behaviorists even suggest when taking away something a dog isn't supposed to have that offering something (an appropriate toy) as an alternative is a positive way to redirect attention from what is being taken away. If your pup didn't growl before but is starting to, she might be feeling a mounting tension and increasing threat. If she is not growling as you approach her bowl, or give her a quick pat as she eats, I'd just let her eat in peace and foster a confidence that she has nothing to be defensive about.

It is just something to think about. It may not be dominance at all, but anxiety and pressure that she is feeling. If she then reacts because of that and is corrected, it could exacerbate issues in a way that is undesirable.

A few years ago I read a book called The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell. While I don't agree that there is any simple solution that deals with all dogs and all issues, her philosophy on showing leadership and assertion was one that really changed how I think about dogs and the cues they take from us. I even recall a chapter specifically dealing with food issues and her experience with it. I'd highly recommend the book for learning how to behave in a way that makes your dog choose to follow you as leader rather than enforcing it upon them.

[luvofallhorses]

Um punishing a dog for growling will NOT make them aggressive in my experience. Growling is not acceptable in my house and will not be tolerated unless the person deserves it.

If they are being a naughty puppy, it's BEST to teach them it is NOT acceptable to growl unless you are in a really bad situation and if the OP is planning on kids or has kids it's best that she plays with the food bowl a bit.

Unstable genetics is what causes aggression in dogs.. if you don't discipline your dog for growling the dog will think it's OK when it's not acceptable behavior to growl at the hand that feeds it. You should be able to take anything away from your dog.

I would understand if the dog was starved and scrounging on the streets for food and then was rescued; but this is a VERY young puppy we are talking about here. Better to put your hand in a dog's food bowl as a puppy than to try it when the dog is full grown and you had them since a pup. Like I said I think this dog would benefit from NILIF.

[K9soul]

Unstable genetics is what causes aggression in dogs..

That's a very broad and sweeping statement and one I disagree with strongly. Environmental factors and experiences can very much play a role in developing behavior problems including "aggression." I say "aggression" because far too often everything is thrown into the pot and called aggression when it's not. Insecurity, fear, defensiveness, anxiety can all play a part in a dog growling and it may have nothing to do with aggression. Genetics can certainly predispose dogs to being less mentally stable, just like a person can be more predisposed to depression or other mental problems genetically, but it is by far not only factor that determines if a person, or dog, will develop mental or emotional problems.

Puppyhood is a crucial time for a dog and they go through various stages as they learn to develop trust in the people around them. I'm not there, obviously, and can't see exactly what is going on, but it sounds like this food testing is done fairly often, and if so it could very well be causing an anxious and defensive situation for her. As a puppy she knows "I need food to survive" instinctively. She doesn't have the trust and understanding yet that comes with time in building a relationship between human and dog. It does not by any means necessarily mean she considers herself "the boss."

I understand this is a different viewpoint and perspective on the situation than what some others have presented. I'd like to point out that I'm not out to call anyone wrong or bad, but sometimes there are more complex factors going on that may not be taken into consideration, and it's always good to get those different perspectives and then make a decision on what feels right to you. Dogs are more complex than we give them credit for sometimes, and are certainly capable of becoming stressed and acting out. Sometimes it's good to take a step back and determine what we are doing and if there are different approaches we can make.

I've read countless books, watched anything I could find on dogs and dog behavior, because I think there is always more to learn. Even after having dogs for 25 some years I feel like I'm always learning something new, always considering a new perspective on something I hadn't considered before. Even when one author's view may clash with another's, I always feel like I take something of value from their insights and experiences.

Clover looks adorable and I hope you get through this little hitch with her quickly.

Edited to add: My own suggestion would be to start working with the "leave it" command. It's very easy and is a nice way to build trust between you and the pup as well as teach a valuable command. Make a game out if it. Make it fun. It will build your relationship and I bet will take care of any food protective reactions. Here's a link that explains more specifically how to teach it. http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/vie...it-command.htm Once she knows that, you can practice with her at dinnertime with setting her bowl down and having her leave it for a moment or two and then praising happily and saying ok so she can eat.

[k9krazee]

Um punishing a dog for growling will NOT make them aggressive in my experience.

Punishing a dog for giving a warning signal, such as growling, will teach the dog to ditch the warning signal and bite instead.

My JRT Micki growls constantly. He'll growl and snuggle into your lap at the same time.


Sowa, all that talk about entering doors first, not sleeping on the bed, etc is all bologna in my book. Do what you can to build a relationship and trust with her and try not to make it so much as you being 'in charge' and dominant over her.

[Malibu's Mom]

Count me in with the ones who do not believe in punishing a growl. All you're going to do is create a dog who is fearful of expressing itself. When my dog growls (which is very rare, because I usually spot his behavior prior to growling and act accordingly), you know what I do? I back off! A growl is a symptom, not the underlying problem. You need to take a step back, think about what caused the growl, and then take a different approach. You need to work on changing her underlying emotions around food.

By punishing her, you are, at the moment, actively creating a negative association with people being near her while she is eating. This will create a dog that is defensive and timid while eating. I've seen it in plenty of dogs, including in my OWN dog, after I used force-based training methods to fix his mild food aggression (and, no, I didn't do it "wrong", I actually have good natural timing, which has come very handy in clicker training)

Here is an good excerpt from Sophia Yin's article on how to deal with resource guarding. This is method 1 -
"At every meal, while Fido's eating his plain dog food, stand a safe distance away and toss a steady stream (10-30) of bite-sized treats that he loves. Then, when he's finished and has nothing left to guard, move closer and toss more treats to him or into his bowl. Note that you'll have to cut back on his regular food so that he gets his normal daily caloric alottment of food. After a few meals using this method, move a bit closer each day, always staying outside Fido's defensive range. If Fido tenses up or even growls, then you've moved too close, too quickly, so watch his body language closely. The key is that he stays relaxed at all times around the bowl and learns to expect even better treats from you. If this method takes you any more than a week, or Fido looks tense, or you're in any doubt about your ability to safely read Fido's mood, then you should go to method 2."

I also suggest "trading" the food bowl for a high value treat, and feeding by hand.

I also need to add this. Sowa, it seems as though you are very concerned with your dog's behavior. That's very good! But what's worrying me is that you appear to also be concerned about constantly making sure you are the "boss."

Please, do yourself a favor and don't think that way. I did the same thing for many years of my dog's life. I was a rabid Dog Whisperer fan and was constantly correcting my dog. Our lives were not happy because I was always so concerned about whether or not I was the "dominant" one. I read a great book by ethologist and dog behavior specialist Dr. Patricia McConell called The Other End of The Leash and it really changed my mindset. I stopped worrying and just starting enjoying him. He's much happier and so am I. This does NOT mean he does not have boundaries and does whatever he pleases. He doesn't, but I rarely have to redirect him anymore because I'm always making it clear what I want him to do, not what I don't want him to do.

Instead of looking for reasons to say NO, look for reasons to say YES! That's the fundamental idea that has totally changed the way I relate to ALL the animals I work with, whether it be dogs, cats, horses or birds.

I'm only saying this because I wish somebody would've told me this earlier. I wish somebody would have recommended books like The Other End of The Leash and The Culture Clash. I don't know if I would've listened, but I hope I would have.

Sowa, I really hope you can enjoy your dog as a puppy as much as possible. It's such a precious time.

[k9krazee]

Nobody ever said anything about hitting the dog. If you tell a dog not to growl, it's only showing it that warnings are pointless. This causes you to create a dog that bites without an obvious warning.

I'm not saying you should ignore the growling, but you need to address the problem and not the symptom. The dog is obviously uncomfortable about something and that issue should be addressed, not the dog telling you that it's uncomfortable.

[sasvermont]

Nobody ever said anything about hitting the dog. If you tell a dog not to growl, it's only showing it that warnings are pointless. This causes you to create a dog that bites without an obvious warning.

I'm not saying you should ignore the growling, but you need to address the problem and not the symptom. The dog is obviously uncomfortable about something and that issue should be addressed, not the dog telling you that it's uncomfortable.

I am not sure exactly what you're addressing in this comment. If you tell a dog not to growl (unacceptable behavior) it is not going to drive them to bite! Get real. I TOTALLY do not agree with you! You can't read a dog's mind. How can you determine why the dog is "obviously uncomfortable"...... My dog has growled at me - when she was young and guess what, she has NEVER bitten me or anyone else. She was told NO when she growled.

[Varga]

I agree with k9krazee and K9soul. Worry less about "asserting dominance" and focus more about building trust between you and your dog

[k9krazee]

I am not sure exactly what you're addressing in this comment. If you tell a dog not to growl (unacceptable behavior) it is not going to drive them to bite! Get real. I TOTALLY do not agree with you! You can't read a dog's mind. How can you determine why the dog is "obviously uncomfortable"...... My dog has growled at me - when she was young and guess what, she has NEVER bitten me or anyone else. She was told NO when she growled.

Three rolly eyes, I win!

Growling is unacceptable behavior to whom? Growling is the dog's way of letting you know that they feel threatened, uncomfortable, possessive, defensive, whatever. I don't have to read the dog's mind to know that that.

Let's say a dog has a bone and it growls at you because it doesn't want you to take the bone. You tell the dog not to growl. He STILL feels uneasy that you're going to take the bone away. You stopped the growling, but you didn't stop the way he feels in the situation. I'm not saying that it will "drive the dog to bite", but he's not left with many other options to let you know how he's feeling. Some dogs may submit to the correction and you won't have any problems, some may feel like they have to use physical means to get the point across. All dogs are different and all situations are different.

I'm not advocating letting the dog get away with growling, just that you should look into the cause of the growling. In the bone situation I'd play trade games until the dog felt comfortable giving up his bone, thus eliminating the growling without correcting the dog for doing it. I want to teach the dog not to feel possessive or uneasy that I'll take it away.

Or in Clover's situation I'd probably cut back on sticking my hands into her food bowl. Too much of a good thing can be bad. Maybe instead I'd hand feed her or use her meal times as training times. I'm a huge advocate of hand feeding your dog anyway, I think it's a nice bonding thing.