Smokey, Phred's lil grey FurPup, needs PT Prayers for his bum knee

[Cinder & Smoke]

THANKS to ALL of you who have replied with beautiful words of encouragement
and Prayers ... means a LOT to us in this very difficult time.

All this time, Smoke has been "smokin'!" as he motored around.
You can't do something when you don't know there is an issue.

First, I wonder if a second opinion, or a specialist, may have a different take of this situation?

How old is Smokey, anyhow?
... recommends NOT using Rimadyl for dogs over 7 years of age.
There are 2 other pain relievers which do not pose issues ...

Dr. B is considered to be "An Orthopedic Specialist" in the eastern Ohio area.
He's done a LOT of knee and ACL reconstructions in his practice.
Our Doc Mike sends patients to Doc B frequently - they're good friends and both
understand the limitations of a One-Doc clinic vrs. a large, multi-Doc Hospital practice.
Doc Mike already knew I'd rushed Smokey in to see Doc B --- the Docs had
traded notes Thursday morning; and Debbie (from Dr. Mike's Office) had called me
on Thursday to offer their support and desire to be kept 'in the loop'.

Doc B is NOT a rush into anything guy --- he nixed an 'exploratory surgery' as not
warranted (yet) due to the seemingly sudden onset of the problem.
I think we're in Good Hands.

Don't rush into anything.
Nothing important is going to change with that knee in the next few days/week.
Find out all you can about other options even if that means seeing another vet.

We will be keeping him and you in our prayers.

THANKS, Mom!!

I don't think any of us would have made a different choice then you did ...
seeing him run around the dog park for the last 5 years,
I would have never said he needed to have that knee checked out.

I remember maybe the first time you came,
he favored it once or twice toward the end of the day ...
but he hasn't shown a sign of pain out there since.

Dogs are so good at hiding their pain it is often to the extreme point before we humans ever know.
Doesn't make you a neglectful parent ... just makes him a strong dog!

Although Amy's thoughts are quite true ...
I can't help but know that I SHOULD have done more for Smokey SOONER!
He wouldn't be in this terrible situation IF I'd been a better and more diligent parent.

Eyes are leakin pretty bad ...
I'm gonna go {{{Hug}}} some FurKids.

THANKS Again, Gang!

[shais_mom]

I just read this - and thought I replied - but apparently my mind was elsewhere.
lots of prayers on the way Phred and fur crew.
Having a dog with hip dysplasia I can empathasize with you. They sure know how to hide their pain from us.
If it is a pain management issue over the longterm I strongly reccomend the Dog Gone Pain that Keegan takes. www.doggonepain.com Pricewise I think its probably about the same as Rimadyl but not near as hard on their liver. Keegan never responded well to the Rimadyl as she did the DGP.
kisses to the patient.

[Cinder & Smoke]

There are 2 other pain relievers which do not pose issues ...

I strongly reccomend the Dog Gone Pain that Keegan takes.
www.doggonepain.com
Pricewise I think its probably about the same as Rimadyl but not near as hard on their liver.

kisses to the patient.

Patient's tired of allua **Kisses** & he's having to put up with!

Any more details or info on these "alternatives" to Rimadyl ??

I know I DID ask Doc B about the bad effects of the Rimadyl ...
his answer was that he's heard and read about the "reported" negative effects;
BUT in his experience (and he's a bit past 25) - he doesn't notice liver or kidney problems.

He sort of said the Rimadyl was a known & effective pain killer - and THAT was very
important at this point in time for Smokey. I'm sure Doc B will at least 'consider' the
three 'alternatives' you Gals are suggesting ... I just need to know the NAMES of
the ones Freedom is suggesting.

Off to read up on Keegan's "DGP".

[Rachel]

Oh, Phred, I'm so sorry that our little Smokester is in such a difficult spot. It breaks my heart. But you must stop feeling guilty. Hindsight is 20/20. We all know what we coulda/shoulda done after the fact and sometimes the wave length by which our dogs communicate with us has some static in it.
Even given that, we don't know how much different or better the situation would be had we been more pro-active. Sometimes even that has ill effects. Hold your head up high knowing that you are one of the most concerned and caring Doggie Daddys out there, and if I ever died and came back as a dog, I'd be at your door, just like Cinder and Smokey were.

Please keep us advised on every little detail going on with our buddy boy. If this process gets *spensive*, you might want to drop a hint here too. In the mean time much pets, and special snacks for the little bugger. He has probably benefited (unlike some of the rest of us) by keeping his weight in the skinny category.

[lizbud]

I'm so sorry that Smokey has been having so much pain with his knee.
Althought I do know that a Luxating Patella never heals itself, some dogs
are able to get along without surgery for a long time & not show any bad
effects from it.

The surgery is expensive, as it is with hip displasia, but it can also work
wonders to end the pain altogether. Here's hoping Smokey can be helped
to keep on truckin for a long,long time yet.Prayers for Smokey & his loving
dad too.

[anna_66]

Well gee, looks like everyone has said all my sentiments so I'll just tell you that in no way are you a neglectful pet parent, so don't ever think that.
You take care of those dogs better than most people take care of their kids!

I'm really glad to hear that he's feeling better since the meds. Lots more kisses on the way

(((HUGS))) to ya Phred

[Casper]

I am sorry you and Smokey are having to go through this, but I am confident it will turn out well considering the love you two have for each other. After all, love is one of the most powerful forces, right?

Positive thoughts and good vibes headed that way!

[cassiesmom]

*picks up Phred's prayer line* *dials number for God*

God ... we have a SmokeMutt with an ouchey knee. And a worried human. Thank you that the Rimadyl has helped so far. Please bless Smokey, Phred and the doctor as they determine what to do. I just want to thank you for Phred and how much he means to PT. Comfort them tonight, please, God. Thank you, Amen.

[Freedom]

Any more details or info on these "alternatives" to Rimadyl ??

I just need to know the NAMES of the ones Freedom is suggesting.

Phred, with any of the 3 (rimadyl, metacam, tramadol), the vet will do routine blood work to monitor kidney, liver and other levels. There are tons of hits for each one. I just go by the rescue's guidelines, based on the report of the senior dog project.

Metacam, and Tramadol are the 2 suggested in the senior dog project, as alternatives to Rimadyl. Metacam is the Tops for pain relief, and it is the most expensive. Marlin got no relief with Tramadol and so we switch over to Metacam within 24 hours, and he was feeling noticeably better in hours. (This was back when he had 38 teeth extractions all at one go.)

Rimadyl can cause internal bleeding and kidney problems. As a short term measure and if your dog is in pain, use this with caution. Long term, it can cause liver problems.

The following is taken from this site:
http://www.nopain4pets.com/arthritis-in-dogs.html
There are two main medications that Veterinarians usually prescribe for the inflammation and pain of arthritis and hip dysplasia. These two canine pain relief treatments are Rimadyl and Metacam. Both of these medications may have moderate to severe side effects for your pet. These are controlled medicines that can only be purchased with a prescription.

Rimadyl - Rimadyl (Carprofen), is produced by Pfizer Pharmaceuticals and was introduced into the market in January 1997. It has proven to be an effective means of relieving arthritis pain in dogs. Since it's introduction there has been serious concern about the side effects of the medication. Many pet owners have reported death of their pets due to adverse reactions to Rimadyl.

When my dog needed relief from her arthritis my Vet suggested that we use Metacam instead of Rimadyl due specifically to the large number of side effects with Rimadyl.

Metacam - Or Meloxicam is an NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) and is closely related to ibuprofen. My Vet likened it to ibuprofen on steroids (although there are no steroids in it). It was suggested that Metacam was a far safer (yet more expensive) choice than Rimadyl. I found my Lab Brandy tolerated it very well and could not identify any side effects from it. The only downside I could see was the cost. It should be noted that Metacam can be used to treat other painful conditions including injuries, surgery and cancer.

There are loads and loads of sites on this subject, Pros, Cons, it gets mind boggling.

[slick]

Oh Phred, I'm so sorry to hear about Smokeymutt's knee and you most certainly have my ongoing prayers. You've gotten some good advice here and I know that you are in good hands.

Please don't feel guilty. As others have said, our furbabies excel in hiding pain. It's times like this that we all wish they could "speak english". Keep a positive attitude...it always helps. You know that PT prayers work miracles and this will be no exception.

Big {{{hugs}}} to you and smoochies to Cinder and Smoke.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

I hope Smokey will be ok!

[zippy-kat]

Smokey will most certainly be in our thoughts and prayers!

[cyber-sibes]

Woos & a-rooos, Phred,
Ease up on yourself, you took him to the vet as soon as you realized that something was really wrong. Our pups are soooooo good at just going along like usual, even when they're having serious issues. And we all go thru that guilt - I'm sure we've all said "if only I'd gotten (fill in the blank) to the vet sooner" at some point.

We'll keep paws crossed & send sibe vibes for Smokey.
And here's a big ole' ((((hug))))for you, Phred!

[Cinder & Smoke]

Pain Relievers ...
There are loads and loads of sites on this subject,
Pros, Cons, it gets mind boggling.

Agreed.

I'm of the mind to continue with the 30 days of Rimadyl
(75 mg split into two doses per day) -
till we determine what the problem is and develop a treatment.

I'm reminded of the theories that both of the "older" Vets that looked after
First Shepherd Casey proposed to treat her early-onset Arthritis in her hips.
Both Docs were of the "old school, country Vet" mindset, and both advised against
using the "new, high-powered" pain relievers to eliminate "discomfort".
They both preached that reasonable pain (or discomfort) was the body's only way
to warn that an activity was more than said body could tolerate, and to stop or
reduce the offending activity. TOO Much pain relief turned off the "warning" message
and suggested to the Dog that nothing was wrong. Without any pain "warning",
the Dog was very likely to overdo his/her activity level and begin causing
permanent damage.

It seems to be a fine line between pain relief and excessive de-sensitizing.
I need to be able to draw that line for Smokey ... I can't stand idle while he's suffering
with constant pain; but he also needs to know that he has limits that must be heeded.

It's not going to be easy to slow down my lil Jack-Rabbit wannbe.

THANKS Again for all your expressions of concern and Good Wishes.

/s/ DogDad Phred, "Gimpy", and Cinder.

[lizbud]

Agreed.



It seems to be a fine line between pain relief and excessive de-sensitizing.
I need to be able to draw that line for Smokey ... I can't stand idle while he's suffering
with constant pain; but he also needs to know that he has limits that must be heeded.

It's not going to be easy to slow down my lil Jack-Rabbit wannbe.

THANKS Again for all your expressions of concern and Good Wishes.

/s/ DogDad Phred, "Gimpy", and Cinder.

One thing I would advise though is to not let him do any more jumping
up & down off the bed. That's got to be even more damaging to his knees.

I know how hard it is to watch them every minute, but I'd try to eliminate
any added strain if you can. Does your Vet want to wait & see before
making a decision on a operation for Smokey's knee?