Fighting fire with fire

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Of course, it all makes perfect sense. The only way to stop violent deaths caused from gun-fire is to make sure there are MORE guns.

Honestly, people have so many "reasons" why people become killers and try to justify their insane behavior. There are always going to be crazy psychos in the world despite everyone's best intentions. I think the only way to stop them from doing so much harm is by taking away guns. Sure, there are other ways to kill people, but using a gun is the ONLY way to kill and harm so many people with so little effort.

In my mind there is absolutely no intelligent argument in favor of guns. It's completely astonishing we allow such a menace to our society to thrive and continue to make irrational arguments to keep them legal.

[RICHARD]

I love these stories.

In Oxnard, Ca some little AH shot a kid in the head because the kid cross dressed and wore nail polish.

The following day the parents were out in force walking their kids to schoolbecause they were afraid that it would happen again.

Ya think?

People have a false sense of security because of guns.
Those two cops killed in the courthouse probably never had a chance to pull their guns.

Two weeks ago one of the LAPD SWAT cops was killed and another was shot in the face. They entered a building during a standoff-they had their guns drawn, yet they still got tagged.

You could have the biggest gun in your holster or on your arm and unless you know you are going to get shot at, it won't do you a bit of good.

-----------------------

If you are going to commit a crime and know that no one in the area has a gun, can own a gun or has access to a gun, you probably are going to commit it anyway.

If you are a suicidal idiot or want to commit suicide by by cop, you are going to do it anyway.

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Me?


I'd rather be in an area, in a crowd where I know people are carrying.

If some idiot decides to start shooting up the place someone will ventilate them before he kills 10,20 people.

I'd much rather take my chances with someone shooting at the shooter than having the shooter firing at everyone that moves.

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Yeah, outlaw the guns and while you are at it take those stupid video games away from kids.


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Interesting little thought that came across the radio the other day-

Before, parents called to school because their kids misbehaved would say, "What did my kid do?"

Now, they come in and ask, "What did you do to my kid?"


Guns have been around for years and it's just recently that bad parenting, spoil the child/spare the rod, not letting a kid get stupid and then pay the price, let's ignore movie and video game ratings- are responsible for the little bees-turds going overboard.

When Johnny starts to pull butterfly wings, kill puppies and skin kitties, light fires and beat up the nieighborhood kids we send them to the shrink, he says
ADD, ADHD, Dee Dee Dee (carlos mencia fans get the joke.). We give them Ritalin and then play around with the dosage and should they go off their meds and shoot up a college, we stop and wonder why, how and what started it.


Oh, right- it was guns.

And then I remember that guns don't kill people, bullets do.

[cmayer31]

...

Guns have been around for years and it's just recently that bad parenting, spoil the child/spare the rod, not letting a kid get stupid and then pay the price, let's ignore movie and video game ratings- are responsible for the little bees-turds going overboard.

When Johnny starts to pull butterfly wings, kill puppies and skin kitties, light fires and beat up the nieighborhood kids we send them to the shrink, he says
ADD, ADHD, Dee Dee Dee (carlos mencia fans get the joke.). We give them Ritalin and then play around with the dosage and should they go off their meds and shoot up a college, we stop and wonder why, how and what started it. ...

I'm split on the issue, but I agree with the above quote 100%.

Guns are a tool used by people to kill yes, but it's not the gun or the law abiding citizens that own guns that cause the majority of problems. The problem is in why society, specifically in the U.S., has become so brain dead that this kind of tragedy has become the norm. There is no such thing as family TV anymore, many kids find educational or non-violent video games to be boring, and kids are enabled more and more to disobey laws, disrespect others, and get away with it.

There is a lot more wrong with these murderes than their ability to access weapons.

Take away guns and the underlying problems won't go away, maybe next they'll just make car bombs, or pipe bombs, or hand built RPG's. Heck when I was a kid my friends and I had all read the anarchist cook book and had all sorts of ideas for building explosives. Luckily for me, and others I guess, my parents raised me well and taught me about respect, compassion, and allowed me to even get in a bit of trouble and learn from it. Today I still play with fireworks, enjoy huge bonfires, drive fast cars, play with high speed and high current motors, shoot high powered bows with a variety of arrows, and even shoot skeet and sporting clays with my shotgun.

The key is that I know the difference between right and wrong, but sadly it seems that more and more people don't know that difference and good role models are undermined so much by the mass media attention on poor role models that any chance of common sense making a come back are very limited. We need to get back to basics as a society.

Sadly, I don't have the first clue how to do that. I wish teachers didn't have to be so afraid of the newfound power of students to disobey and manipulate the system, but how can we have confidence in enabling teachers again when there is story after story of teachers molesting children? We need to empower law enforcement to uphold laws, but how can we trust laws that no longer protect us, but rather protect criminals, or how do we trust the law enforcement officials themselves when we head about all of the corruption and scandals? We need to know the facts of news, but how can we when the personal chaos of celebrity lives make headline news over any good deeds or noteworthy news? For everything that needs to get back to a basic standard there are so many issues that prevent it, that it truly scares me. It really scares me to think about the slippery slope of double standards and false realities that we've created as a society.

However, back to banning all firearms: I own a gun; I own a gun lock. Why should I not be able to own a gun? I don't own it for self defense, home defense, or for any reason other than sport shooting. I think proper training, education, real life experience and a progressively developed common sense go a long way in both gun control and life. I just don't know where these simple traits have gone.

Guns have been around since the 17th century and were even easier to get a hold of in years past. Guns aren't the menace, society is.

[jackie]

I have said it before and will say it again, there is NO reason that handguns should be allowed in the general population. The only people who should be able to own and carry handguns are law enforcement.

Less guns on the street, less gun violence on the street. And for those who are saying "it's my right to be able to protect myself and my family from the bad guys", where do you think the bad guys got their guns?

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Do any of the posters who believe violent crime is a result of "bad" parenting and video games realize that crime has actually been in decline since the early 90s? Here's a source, or you can just google it yourself: Crime Stats .

If your arguments were plausible, then crime should hypothetically be the highest it has ever been (after all we have way more access to violent games, etc than ever before) but it's not. The fact is that the only way to stop shooting rampages is to make guns illegal.

[cmayer31]

Do any of the posters who believe violent crime is a result of "bad" parenting and video games realize that crime has actually been in decline since the early 90s? Here's a source, or you can just google it yourself: Crime Stats .

If your arguments were plausible, then crime should hypothetically be the highest it has ever been (after all we have way more access to violent games, etc than ever before) but it's not. The fact is that the only way to stop shooting rampages is to make guns illegal.

According to your own stats: Firearm-related crime has plummeted since 1993, then slightly increased in 2005.

Hrmm... if we keep violent video games and crime goes down, it also then appears that having guns causes a plummet in related crimes. So not banning video games based on your stats = not making guns illegal. I'll probably go through 3-4 hundred rounds this weekend; should be fun.

Edited to add that in CA it is actually a long process to purchase a gun. I've waited over a month for my most recent purchase of a long gun that will come in on Sunday. To buy a hand gun in CA it is a lot more difficult and a pretty advanced system through the department of justice. Sadly, criminals get their guns the same way druggies get their drugs...illegally and a lot quicker.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

According to your own stats: Firearm-related crime has plummeted since 1993, then slightly increased in 2005.

Hrmm... if we keep violent video games and crime goes down, it also then appears that having guns causes a plummet in related crimes. So not banning video games based on your stats = not making guns illegal.

This makes absolutely no sense at all because obviously if guns didn't exist there would be zero gun-related crime. Fluctuating statistics doesn't make the case that guns are safe no matter how you look at it.

Probably crime dropped after 1993 due to the Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act passed in 1994. Part of this act also included an assault weapons ban. The assault weapons ban expired in 2004, which actually could account for the increase in fire-arms related crime in 2005.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The kid in Illinois, the kid in Virginia, the man in Missouri, the woman in Louisiana...were mentally ill. Whether they were "bad kids" raised by "bad parents"...who knows? But clearly, they were mentally ill.

And we have such a gun loving culture that owning an instrument of death (the only reason guns exist is to kill) is a devine right.

People kill people but guns sure make it easier to kill a whold big bunch of unsuspecting people.

[cassiesmom]

Here is my two cents. And I have both a personal and family history of mental conditions, so I'm not exactly living in a glass house on this one.

People who have been treated for mental illnesses (such as the NIU shooter, who underwent treatment for self-injury and was discharged from the military because of mental health problems) SHOULD NOT be able to obtain guns.

But, also, the stigma attached to treatment of mental illness needs to go away. That will take a societal, attitude change. A paradigm shift.

[RICHARD]

People kill people but guns sure make it easier to kill a whold big bunch of unsuspecting people.

Not true. Unless you have a belt fed machine gun you have to stop and reload.

[Catlady711]

I'm split on the issue, but I agree with the above quote 100%.

Guns are a tool used by people to kill yes, but it's not the gun or the law abiding citizens that own guns that cause the majority of problems. The problem is in why society, specifically in the U.S., has become so brain dead that this kind of tragedy has become the norm. There is no such thing as family TV anymore, many kids find educational or non-violent video games to be boring, and kids are enabled more and more to disobey laws, disrespect others, and get away with it.

There is a lot more wrong with these murderes than their ability to access weapons.

The key is that I know the difference between right and wrong, but sadly it seems that more and more people don't know that difference and good role models are undermined so much by the mass media attention on poor role models that any chance of common sense making a come back are very limited. We need to get back to basics as a society.

Two words come to my mind on the cause of alot of this misery....

"Situational Ethics"