My 2 cent opinion on "Pet Food" *Edit*

[dragondawg]

Wow! That is quite an assumption, I'd love to see links to some "scientific journals" where you found this information out!

As im sure you know, before commericial dog foods came along, dogs ate what we ate.. including raw meat diets. Dog foods have only been around since the 40's.. Do you really think its "just a coincidence" that there has been an increase in certain diseases ever since. Do you think its "just a coincidence" that dogs are suffering from diabetes, dental problems, and yes cancer, now more than ever. Infact 50 or so years ago..canine cancer was a rare thing.

Also..dog food fads? Explain to me what that is exactly?.. seems to me if anything, commericial dog foods are the fad diet.

Researchers have also discovered that certain breeds of dogs are more susceptible to the disease than others. In a 2001 study at Penn’s veterinary hospital, 56 percent of all golden retrievers and 52 percent of all boxers who died there were found to have died from cancer.

Quick search

I suggest you contact the U.Penn to see if the study got published. Of course one must first accept that 56% equates to my phrase of "extremely high".

Eh what the heck a few more minutes of searching yields:

Cancer, the manifestation of uncontrolled cell growth, occurs as a result of genetic damage and/or changes in a cell. Such changes can be caused by innate genetic factors, as in the case of certain cancer-prone breeds like boxers, German shepherds, golden retrievers and Scottish terriers. In these breeds, oncogenes – genes that initiate the cancer process – have been inadvertently selected for over time.

and

Cancer is a significant disease in dogs, said Dr. Baez. Nearly one-quarter of all dogs, and 45 percent of dogs older than ten years of age, will die of cancer. The incidence of canine cancer appears to be on the rise, which could be partially accounted for by increased life span and better diagnostic methods.

Genetic link and incidence

I'll leave it to you to research and come up with links which indicate Lymphoma is the most prevalent cancer in dogs.

Dog foods have only been around since the 40's.. Do you really think its "just a coincidence" that there has been an increase in certain diseases ever since.

Shall we try a little logic again? Given that the incidence of Lymphoma is high in Goldens, and is nearly non-existent in Pomeranians... then in order for your assertion there is a direct association between Lymphoma (cancer) and commercial dog food to hold, it would also be true that owners of Goldens are pre-ordained to feed exclusively commercial dog food, and owners of Pomeranians are pre-ordained not to feed commercial dog food. Seems a little too large of a leap of faith doesn't it? Yet there are definite genetic differences between the incidence of cancer in the breeds regardless of diet.

Do I think it's coincidence canine cancer is rising due to irresponsible breeding practices? Ya bet! Again diet is not a factor.

Also..dog food fads? Explain to me what that is exactly?.

Gladly. A dog food fad is one where someone has figured out a new angle to play off the paranoia surrounding commercial dog food, and the expense of attempting to feed a balanced owner prepared dog diet in order to make a quick buck for themselves. They create an advertising site containing half truths, and present their product as more asthetically pleasing complete with testimonials. People buy it, until someone else comes up with something that sounds better. All the while the dog's biochemical pathways could care less whether that leucine amino acid came from corn or chicken.

I will repeat my previous assertion: If your dog enjoys eating Brand X dog food (be it Ole Roy, or Granny's Delight All Natural), has good energy levels for its age, and is pronounced healthy in its yearly check up at the Vet, then the dog should continue to be fed Brand X.

[cali]

Fad: A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze.

domestic dogs have been around for thousands of years, commercial dog food has been around for less then 100 years. this, by definition, makes commercial dogfood the Fad.

[dragondawg]

domestic dogs have been around for thousands of years, commercial dog food has been around for less then 100 years. this, by definition, makes commercial dogfood the Fad.

Definition of Fad

a practice or interest followed for a time with exaggerated zeal

The craze of raw is good, and commercial is poison religion seems to qualify as having an exaggerated zeal. It will pass.

[cali]

The craze of raw is good, and commercial is poison religion seems to qualify as having an exaggerated zeal. It will pass.

no, the craze of commercial dogfood is passing. the "exaggerated zeal" being that raw will kill your dog and only commercial dog food can possably be healthy. raw and homecooked was here first, and was here for a vey long time, then commercial dogfoods came about sspouting that it was the only healthy way to feed your dog, evenyone jumped on the bandwagon, and now the fad is begging to pass lol

[K9soul]

I don't think commercial dog food will ever disappear, but I do think companies will work to put out better products that are more "natural." Some of it will just be marketing of course, but I do think there are more alternatives available now such as Evo and Timberwolf Organics etc., than there used to be.

I never understand why some of these threads have to get so personal with people's intelligence being insulted. There's really no need for that to state one's opinions and beliefs.

[cali]

oh absoulty, I dont think commercial food will ever go away totally, however more and more people are jumping off the commercial food bandwagon. even I feed commercial dog food here and there simpely for convenience sake.

[Danegirl2208]

no, the craze of commercial dogfood is passing. the "exaggerated zeal" being that raw will kill your dog and only commercial dog food can possably be healthy. raw and homecooked was here first, and was here for a vey long time, then commercial dogfoods came about sspouting that it was the only healthy way to feed your dog, evenyone jumped on the bandwagon, and now the fad is begging to pass lol

Exactly!...Why do most people feed commercial dog food? Because generation after generation have been "taught" that it is the best and only food for your dog. "No meat!" "No bones!" "No table scraps!"...We've all heard it..and anyone who feeds any different is bashed and put down because they can't possibly be "educated enough" to make their own dog's meal. Raw and homecooked diets are not a fad. And they are not going anywhere...people have been feeding this way LONG before kibble came along, and people will continue too do so. The benefits speak for themselves.

[Danegirl2208]

Also about the whole cancer bit a couple posts above..I will admit I know very little about canine cancer. Now correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't cancer feed on sugar? And don't those heaps of carbs in your dogs kibble turn to sugar? Hmm...So when you take those grains out of your dogs diet what happens? The cancer has less to feed on, no?

Not surprised at all that many owners of dogs with cancer choose to go the raw and homecooked route.

.....

heres an intresting artice:

July, 16 2007

By Deb M. Eldredge, DVM

You never want to get the news that your dog has cancer. However, it’s good to know there are many effective treatments available to dogs now. One of the simplest and most affordable is a good diet. While the food you give your dog won’t necessarily cure cancer, it can make a significant difference in your dog’s ability to fight the disease.

If your dog is diagnosed with cancer, you should make it a priority to help him maintain as healthy a body as possible with a sound immune system. This may require some adjustments to his diet, because many cancers cause dogs to lose weight and muscle mass. This condition, called “cachexia,” can be caused directly by the cancer or it can be the side effect of some cancer treatments.

In a series of studies, Dr. Ogilvie, a leading cancer nutritionist, looked at the effect of different diets on dogs with cancers, specifically lymphomas. He discovered that dogs with cancer actually metabolize some nutrients differently than healthy dogs.

For starters, dogs with cancer use carbohydrates differently. In his study, Dr. Ogilvie found that the cancer grows rapidly with plenty of glucose available. Specifically, the cancer cells gain energy by using simple sugars, such as glucose, which is a breakdown product of carbohydrates. Therefore, you can help deprive the cancer cells of fuel for growth by decreasing the amount of carbohydrates in your dog’s diet.

In contrast to their use of carbs, cancer cells don’t utilize fat very well. The omega-3 fatty acids in particular are useful for cancer patients. These fatty acids decrease the development of carcinogen-related tumors and decrease the growth of solid tumors. They also help alleviate some side effects of chemotherapy and radiation treatments and provide healthy cells with energy. Flaxseed oil and cold-water fish oils such as salmon oils are excellent sources of omega-3 fatty acids that you can consider adding to your dog’s diet. Omega-6 fatty acids such as safflower oil are not recommended, with the exception of cases of an unusual skin growth called mycosis fungoides.

So a diet with low carbohydrates and a fair amount of omega-3 fatty acids can help your dog. But what about protein? Tumor cells will use protein for energy before fat; that’s why cancer patients lose muscle and body condition. The cancer cells fight with the normal cells for the amino acids they need. An ideal diet for a dog with cancer, then, contains a moderate amount of top-quality protein.

You may also want to supplement some amino acids, such as arginine, which is known for helping to maintain the immune system. A strong immune system can help your dog’s body fight cancer. Glutamine is another important amino acid that helps to preserve the gastrointestinal tract and may decrease any vomiting or diarrhea seen as a side effect of some chemotherapy regimens. Finally, glycine specifically protects the kidneys from the side effects of the chemotherapy drug called cisplatin. You can really boost your dog’s ability to fight the cancer by making sure he gets enough of these three important amino acids.

Other supplements that might be beneficial include vitamins A, C, and E and selenium. These vitamins and the mineral selenium are known for their antioxidant properties; they all fight the free radicals related to aging. Vitamin A can even be supplied in the form of cod liver oil that will also provide extra omega-3 fatty acids. Vitamin E and selenium act as antioxidants but need to be given in the proper balance. Vitamin C is not only an antioxidant but also an acidifier. Studies have shown that an alkaline body aids cancer growth, so it is conceivable, though not proven, that an acidic body may slow down cancer growth. While all of these supplements are helpful, too much of any one of them can be dangerous, so be sure to consult with your veterinarian about the proper dosage before you add them to your dog’s diet.

A few additional dietary additions that may be helpful include garlic, which is known for counteracting many carcinogens, and both black and green tea. It may be tricky to get your dog to enjoy an afternoon cup of tea with you, though! Herbs such as echinacea, bromelain and milk thistle may also be appropriate additives for specific cancers.

While we can’t say that diet changes will cure most cancers, some dietary adjustments may help give your dog a longer survival time with a better quality of life. And luckily, most foods, unlike many cancer treatments, have very few side effects.

Dr. Deb M. Eldredge graduated from Cornell University as the first recipient of the Gentle Doctor Award. She has been in private practice and is active in virtually all dog sports. She is also an award-winning writer — her book “Cancer and Your Pet” was a finalist in the Dog Writers of America (DWAA) contest, and “Head of the Class,” a training book written with her daughter, won the Best Training and Behavior Book Award from DWAA in 2006.

http://dogcentral.msn.com/article.as...0079&GT1=10279

[Catlady711]

Has it occurred to anyone that the food itself is only partially to blame?

Besides genetics which dragondawg mentioned, there are way more environmental factors to consider.

Even people seem to be getting cancer more, people travel more and further (taking their pets with them) than they did in the 60's thus exposing their animals to more things or just having more diseases brought into their own backyard by traveling pets. Diagnostics have gotten better every year in both people and animals, it's possible that what used to be just lumped in one category, they now know what it is and have a name and separate category for it as well as tests to detect it.

Something to think about.

[dragondawg]

Also about the whole cancer bit a couple posts above..I will admit I know very little about canine cancer. Now correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't cancer feed on sugar? And don't those heaps of carbs in your dogs kibble turn to sugar? Hmm...So when you take those grains out of your dogs diet what happens? The cancer has less to feed on, no?

Not surprised at all that many owners of dogs with cancer choose to go the raw and homecooked route.

.....

heres an intresting artice:

July, 16 2007

By Deb M. Eldredge, DVM

You never want to get the news that your dog has cancer. However, it’s good to know there are many effective treatments available to dogs now. One of the simplest and most affordable is a good diet. While the food you give your dog won’t necessarily cure cancer, it can make a significant difference in your dog’s ability to fight the disease.

If your dog is diagnosed with cancer, you should make it a priority to help him maintain as healthy a body as possible with a sound immune system. This may require some adjustments to his diet, because many cancers cause dogs to lose weight and muscle mass. This condition, called “cachexia,” can be caused directly by the cancer or it can be the side effect of some cancer treatments.

In a series of studies, Dr. Ogilvie, a leading cancer nutritionist, looked at the effect of different diets on dogs with cancers, specifically lymphomas. He discovered that dogs with cancer actually metabolize some nutrients differently than healthy dogs.

For starters, dogs with cancer use carbohydrates differently. In his study, Dr. Ogilvie found that the cancer grows rapidly with plenty of glucose available. Specifically, the cancer cells gain energy by using simple sugars, such as glucose, which is a breakdown product of carbohydrates. Therefore, you can help deprive the cancer cells of fuel for growth by decreasing the amount of carbohydrates in your dog’s diet.

In contrast to their use of carbs, cancer cells don’t utilize fat very well. The omega-3 fatty acids in particular are useful for cancer patients. These fatty acids decrease the development of carcinogen-related tumors and decrease the growth of solid tumors. They also help alleviate some side effects of chemotherapy and radiation treatments and provide healthy cells with energy. Flaxseed oil and cold-water fish oils such as salmon oils are excellent sources of omega-3 fatty acids that you can consider adding to your dog’s diet. Omega-6 fatty acids such as safflower oil are not recommended, with the exception of cases of an unusual skin growth called mycosis fungoides.

So a diet with low carbohydrates and a fair amount of omega-3 fatty acids can help your dog. But what about protein? Tumor cells will use protein for energy before fat; that’s why cancer patients lose muscle and body condition. The cancer cells fight with the normal cells for the amino acids they need. An ideal diet for a dog with cancer, then, contains a moderate amount of top-quality protein.

You may also want to supplement some amino acids, such as arginine, which is known for helping to maintain the immune system. A strong immune system can help your dog’s body fight cancer. Glutamine is another important amino acid that helps to preserve the gastrointestinal tract and may decrease any vomiting or diarrhea seen as a side effect of some chemotherapy regimens. Finally, glycine specifically protects the kidneys from the side effects of the chemotherapy drug called cisplatin. You can really boost your dog’s ability to fight the cancer by making sure he gets enough of these three important amino acids.

Other supplements that might be beneficial include vitamins A, C, and E and selenium. These vitamins and the mineral selenium are known for their antioxidant properties; they all fight the free radicals related to aging. Vitamin A can even be supplied in the form of cod liver oil that will also provide extra omega-3 fatty acids. Vitamin E and selenium act as antioxidants but need to be given in the proper balance. Vitamin C is not only an antioxidant but also an acidifier. Studies have shown that an alkaline body aids cancer growth, so it is conceivable, though not proven, that an acidic body may slow down cancer growth. While all of these supplements are helpful, too much of any one of them can be dangerous, so be sure to consult with your veterinarian about the proper dosage before you add them to your dog’s diet.

A few additional dietary additions that may be helpful include garlic, which is known for counteracting many carcinogens, and both black and green tea. It may be tricky to get your dog to enjoy an afternoon cup of tea with you, though! Herbs such as echinacea, bromelain and milk thistle may also be appropriate additives for specific cancers.

While we can’t say that diet changes will cure most cancers, some dietary adjustments may help give your dog a longer survival time with a better quality of life. And luckily, most foods, unlike many cancer treatments, have very few side effects.

Dr. Deb M. Eldredge graduated from Cornell University as the first recipient of the Gentle Doctor Award. She has been in private practice and is active in virtually all dog sports. She is also an award-winning writer — her book “Cancer and Your Pet” was a finalist in the Dog Writers of America (DWAA) contest, and “Head of the Class,” a training book written with her daughter, won the Best Training and Behavior Book Award from DWAA in 2006.

http://dogcentral.msn.com/article.as...0079&GT1=10279

The answer is no and no. At least for the commercial dog food I feed mine (Propet Large Breed Puppy Formula) there is no, none, nunca, nyet sugar listed in the ingredients. Now somewhere on this planet there is bound to be a dog food that has sucrose, fructose (e.g. corn syrup), or glucose listed as an ingredient, but it's doubtful if you will find many - even for the cheap brands. So from my perspective commercial dog food is not loaded with sugar.

The second no is for the leap of faith that feeding sugar to dogs is going to induce cancer or increase the incidence. Now it may play havoc with the blood sugar levels, and possibly lead to diabetes - as is the case for humans. Not to mention weight gain and skeletal problems.

As for the article you cite Dr Eldredge starts out on track per the Ogilvie research but quickly veers off path quickly. What Ogilvie found was that in combination with Chemotherapy (Doxorubicin), a lymphoma dog fed high doses of Arginine plus fish oil lived longer than those not fed those two supplements. The result of his research was to support the then new Hills c/d dog food formula which added Arginine and fish oil. With my lymphoma puppy I just gave her the Arginine and fish oil, avoiding Hills.

He also discussed the role of fish oil normalizing lactic acid levels, which he previously showed as being elevated in lymphoma dogs. Thus we arrive at the first veer off track:

Studies have shown that an alkaline body aids cancer growth, so it is conceivable, though not proven, that an acidic body may slow down cancer growth.

A lymphoma puppy as just stated has a high lactic acid blood content and subsequently a lower pH. The lactic acid is a by product of fermentation as the sugar is consumed by the cancer cells leaves the host animal to get its energy nutrition through non-carbohydrate sources. Yet a high lactic acid level is a poor prognostic factor for the dog's survival. Thus her statement of saying a low pH is desirable is off the wall.

Flaxseed oil and cold-water fish oils such as salmon oils are excellent sources of omega-3 fatty acids that you can consider adding to your dog’s diet. Omega-6 fatty acids such as safflower oil are not recommended

Another off the wall comment by Eldredge. Flaxseed oil is not a good source of Omega-3s relative to fish oils. In fact Flaxseed has just the precusors of both Omega-3s and Omega-6 fatty acids (e.g. Alpha-LNA, and Linoleic Fatty Acid in a ratio of 43% to 26%) that must be converted by the host animal into the long chain Omega FAs. Example: There is 230 mg of Alpha-LNA per 1 gm of Flax oil. The actual amount that gets converted in humans (via one radioactive isotope study) to 3-Omega fatty acids is somewhere between 4.6 mg – 34.5 mg 3-Omega fatty acids per 1 gm of Flax Oil. Let's not forget the Linoleic FA conversion to Omega-6 FAs that has been shown to promote cancer. Apply the 43% to 26% ratio and you arrive very little benefit in giving Flax oil. Compare to fish oil which has the Omega-3s 180 mg EPA + 120 mg DHA or 300 mg of 3-Omega fatty acids per 1000 mg of fish oil. No conversion by the host animal needed. Thus Eldredge is incorrect in saying Flax has no potential for conversion to the Omega-6s, and is incorrect in saying it's a rich source of Omega-3s.

The third off track for Eldredge is the recommendation of garlic. Research studies have been performed with garlic extracts, and concentrates of active components. In order to acheive the same levels with raw or processed garlic one would literally have to poison the dog (hemolytic anemia) to get the same effect.

I have no disagreements with Eldredge per the use of Vitamins in dogs undergoing Chemotherapy as a means to possible enhance the drugs, or help protect against the harmful effects (e.g. I gave my Lymphoma puppy Co-Enzyme Q to help protect the heart muscle mitochrondria against the harmful effects of Doxorubicin - with research literature to back it up). But you have to put Vitamins in the context as an adjunct treatment, where it probably won't do any harm, but may have a minimal effect at best. Still when you have a dog with cancer anything is worth a try.


As flipgirl asserts (and as I do) cancer in dogs is genetic, and it matters not whether you feed raw, cooked, commercial or otherwise. Irresponsible breeding is the principal cause IMO. Keep that in mind the next time you hear someone casually say they want to breed their dog. Do they know the cancer history of all siblings, parents and siblings for a few generations back? Do the so called professional breeders care about oncogenes in their breeding stock? Would they be willing to take their breeding stock out of breeding if the history indicated cancer in the line? Doubtful. The cancer epidemic speaks for itself.

As Catlady points out part of the epidemic is the realization it exists. In past years it would have been misdiagnosed at best. Add in that despite the rumored horrors of commercial dog food, our dogs none the less are living longer on it, also allowing the cancer to appear with age.