Words well spoken...Recieved in Email

[Edwina's Secretary]

I really wasn't aiming this thread at schools, I was more moved by this mans humble and forgiving nature, and the fact that he refused to blame any one thing for the tradegy that befall him and many others. That he in a very inoffensive but very powerful way placed the blame on the shoulders of the families of the shooter, and the people we charge to value our children.

I saw nothing inoffenisve about it. To say "he refused to blame any one thing" is at best...disingenuous

He says...

it was a spiritual event that should be
forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much
of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame
lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers
themselves.

That sounds like blaming to me.

I look at the list of school shooting above and they all have one thing in common. GUNS...

Some insist that because the constitution says...A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms...there can be no restrictions on firearms...cop-killer bullets...rapid fire...automatics....

Yet...other rights...freedom from search and siezure...freedom of speech can be regulated and abridged.

The Supreme Court has ruled the government can regulate some speech...you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater.

What can't the government set limits on firearms in the same manner?

I would feel more safe knowing there were no semi-automatics in the school than knowing the teacher has lead all the children in reciting the Lord's prayer.

[Puckstop31]

I look at the list of school shooting above and they all have one thing in common. GUNS...

Some insist that because the constitution says...A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms...there can be no restrictions on firearms...cop-killer bullets...rapid fire...automatics....

Yet...other rights...freedom from search and siezure...freedom of speech can be regulated and abridged.

The Supreme Court has ruled the government can regulate some speech...you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater.

What can't the government set limits on firearms in the same manner?

I would feel more safe knowing there were no semi-automatics in the school than knowing the teacher has lead all the children in reciting the Lord's prayer.

There are restrictions on automatic weapons and certain types of ammunition. The problem is criminals don't care about laws.

You mention the government placing limits on firearms. What kind of limits? There are, IMHO, already more than enough gun control laws on the books. How about we enforce the laws that are already in place before we give the government even more power over us?

Finally, do not forget the real reason the founding fathers put the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights in the first place. They believed, as I do, that the government should fear the people not the people fear the government. I am not willing to give up the right to simply feel more "secure".

I promise you that draconian gun control laws is going to what starts the next revolution in this country. When they come for our guns, its time to vote from the rooftops. If the government wants to make me a criminal simply because I own guns, so be it. Who will fight for the government when half of the police and probably even more of the military will be on the side of freedom?

Society is the problem, lack of respect for each other, lack of common courtesy, lack of consequences for actions, lack of discipline... Not an inanimate object.

[sparks19]

Society is the problem, lack of respect for each other, lack of common courtesy, lack of consequences for actions, lack of discipline... Not an inanimate object.

That and lack of parenting.

How many children these days are given toy guns to play with? What kind of message does that send to your children? it is OK to use guns as a toy...... then you tell them that "real" guns are not a toy. How come one gun is a toy and one gun is NOT a toy. Education..... education..... education. TEACH them about guns. Dont give them a toy gun to "play" with and then tell them they can't touch a real gun and then hide it from them with no explanation. They need to learn respect..... respect for the weapon.... respect for people.... and respect for themselves.

EDUCATION.... starting at home and THEN education continuing on throughout life.... in schools.... in sports.... everywhere. But the bottom line.... the parents are responsible for them and their actions until they are adults.... but the education should not stop then. I know I am still learning lots of things..... I'm sure everyone is.

Although I do like that saying "Teenagers should move out into the world while they still know everything" I remember the "I know everything" phase haha I was quickly humbled out of that phase

[wombat2u2004]

There are restrictions on automatic weapons and certain types of ammunition. The problem is criminals don't care about laws.

You mention the government placing limits on firearms. What kind of limits? There are, IMHO, already more than enough gun control laws on the books. How about we enforce the laws that are already in place before we give the government even more power over us?

Finally, do not forget the real reason the founding fathers put the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights in the first place. They believed, as I do, that the government should fear the people not the people fear the government. I am not willing to give up the right to simply feel more "secure".

I promise you that draconian gun control laws is going to what starts the next revolution in this country. When they come for our guns, its time to vote from the rooftops. If the government wants to make me a criminal simply because I own guns, so be it. Who will fight for the government when half of the police and probably even more of the military will be on the side of freedom?

Society is the problem, lack of respect for each other, lack of common courtesy, lack of consequences for actions, lack of discipline... Not an inanimate object.

You can't just disarm the public because some whacko goes nuts. The public have the right to defend themselves, and therefore the right to bear firearms.
Lets face it, even if the public was disarmed, the criminals still seem to access weapons no problem....it's happened here in Australia....we have tough gun control laws, we in the public are now disarmed......STILL we have the criminals out there who access weapons.
Yes, society is to blame.
Wom

[lizbud]

There are restrictions on automatic weapons and certain types of ammunition. The problem is criminals don't care about laws.

You mention the government placing limits on firearms. What kind of limits? There are, IMHO, already more than enough gun control laws on the books. How about we enforce the laws that are already in place before we give the government even more power over us?

What current restrictions on there on automatic weapons? Do you mean
in the size of the clip people can use? I think gun control is more necessary
now. Gun control does not mean no guns sold, it should mean no more
assault weapons shoud be sold in gun stores. There is no need for anyone
to have half the auto weapons now available for sale. IMO

[wombat2u2004]

What current restrictions on there on automatic weapons? Do you mean
in the size of the clip people can use? I think gun control is more necessary
now. Gun control does not mean no guns sold, it should mean no more
assault weapons shoud be sold in gun stores. There is no need for anyone
to have half the auto weapons now available for sale. IMO

Yes, I have to agree with that. There are certainly many weapons that are not necessary to be made available to the public.
Wom

[Lady's Human]

You cannot buy an AK-47 in the United States. With the exception of a select few people, they are banned. This also goes for M-16's, Uzis, and anything else that gets lumped into the category of "Assault weapons". (Pointless category, a damned knife used to stab someone is an "Assault Weapon")

You cannot buy so-called "Armor piercing" ammunition in the United States.

You cannot buy a firearm in the United States if you have been convicted of a Felony. Depending on the offense, there are also misdemeanors which bar sales of firearms and require the confiscation of firearms if you have possession prior to the offense, most notably Domestic Violence of any sort. (Wanna have fun with your gun owning target shooting ex? File a restraining order request. Your ex is now no longer allowed to have firearms, regardless of whether or not he/she actually DID anything)

You cannot buy a firearm in the United States if you have a history of mental illness. (Oops, congressionally mandated loophole there)

There are age restrictions, locale restrictions (I.E. no carrying in places where alcohol is sold for consumption), the list of gun restrictions is endless.

Why in hell do we need more laws when the police and the criminal justice system CANNOT ENFORCE THE LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS?

[Edwina's Secretary]

What about the giant loophole for buying at gun shows?

[Lady's Human]

What giant loophole for buying at gun shows?

Media myth.

If the seller is a licensed federal dealer (as most are), NICS and other checks still apply.

The paperwork still has to be processed and approved.

Of course, due to a decision of the SCOTUS the paperwork really doesn't matter, as they decided that lying on the forms is fine, as being truthful would be self incrimination for a felon.

[Edwina's Secretary]

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws would have guns...just curious...the shooters in these (just to name a few)

Virginia Tech 04/16/07

Amish Country, PA

Wisconsin

Columbine High School

Moses Lake , Washington 2/2/96

Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97!

Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97

West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97

Stam! p, Arkansas 12/15/97

Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98

How many were criminals (before the infamous shooting)??????

If the existing laws are sufficient...and IF ONLY "they" would enforce those laws....

The guy in Virginia bought his gun legally. No exisiting law was broken or unenforced....

so the question is...which of these shootings was the result of convicted criminals or people who bought guns illegally???

Which of these would have been prevented if exisiting gun laws were enforced???

Is the answer all of them???...or nearly all of them???....(It certainly isn't Viriginia Tech!)

Or are these just the same tired arguments...smoke screens...knee-jerk emotional responses the gun lobby throws up every time there is a horrendous shooting because of the availablity of instruments of death in this country?

[Lady's Human]

Mr. Cho should not have been able to purchase either firearm. A Federal Law barring people with a history of mental illness was unenforced.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Mr. Cho should not have been able to purchase either firearm. A Federal Law barring people with a history of mental illness was unenforced.

Sorry...LH...but you are wrong. He did not meet the legal definition of mental illness required to cause a ban on purchasing an instrument of death!

[Lady's Human]

No, I'm not wrong. The only reason he could acquire the handguns was a loophole in the NICS law. Had his mental health situation been reported as required he would not have been able to purchase the handguns.

He also had to lie on the federal purchase form to purchase the weapons.

[Edwina's Secretary]

No, I'm not wrong. The only reason he could acquire the handguns was a loophole in the NICS law. Had his mental health situation been reported as required he would not have been able to purchase the handguns.

He also had to lie on the federal purchase form to purchase the weapons.

Yes, you are wrong...

Virginia state law on mental health disqualifications to firearms purchases, however, is worded slightly differently from the federal statute. So the form that Virginia courts use to notify state police about a mental health disqualification addresses only the state criteria, which list two potential categories that would warrant notification to the state police: someone who was “involuntarily committed” or ruled mentally “incapacitated.”[112] ”

Federal law defines adjudication as a mental defective to include "determination by a court, board, commission or other lawful authority" that as a result of mental illness, the person is a "danger to himself or others."[112] Because of gaps between federal and Virginia state laws, the state did not report Cho's legal status to the federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and Cho's purchases were not prevented.[112] On April 30, 2007, Virginia Governor Timothy Kaine issued an executive order intended to close those reporting gaps.

Another loophole closed 32 lives too late.

And the other shootings?

[Lady's Human]

Those citations, however, completely disregard the purchase form questionnaire which Mr. Cho could not have answered truthfully and recieved the firearms. There were several issues brought up when the NICS law was implemented, mainly regarding state reporting requirements and making the database truly universal, but the law was ramrodded through the Congress unchanged.