Words well spoken...Recieved in Email

[Prairie Purrs]

There is no ban on individual prayer in public schools. There is nothing to prevent kids from saying grace before lunch, from seeking divine intervention on an algebra test, etc. A student who is prevented from praying has legal recourse--keeping in mind that schools have a right to prevent students from doing anything, including praying, in a disruptive manner.

For those who want to see state-sponsored prayer in public schools (for example, requiring all students to pray in unison at school assemblies), I'd ask, whose prayer should they be required to say? If you're Baptist, how would you feel if all public school students were required to say a Hail Mary at the beginning of the school day? What if a Buddhist principal implements mandatory zazen? A Christian parent has no more right to force my (hypothetical) kid to say a Christian prayer than I have to force that parent's kid to take part in a Samhain ritual.

The First Amendment's dual prohibition against government interference with individual practice of religion and government establishment of religion is a brilliant innovation. Too many people only see half of the equation and would happily overturn the Establishment Clause. One would think that examples such as Iran would clearly illustrate that theocracy is an undesirable form of government.

[lizbud]

I think everyone here whoever faced a tough math test in school didn't
stop class time to say a prayer to pass the test.They just did it. Prayer isn't
banned, but a public school teacher cannot lead a class in any one prayer.

I think it's simplistic to believe that prayers in school would change the
culture.

[wombat2u2004]

Got that one a day or so ago in my mail to.
It certainly does hit the mark....hey ???
Wom

[wombat2u2004]

WHAT A WAKEUP!

Dear God:

Why didn't you save the school children at ?.

Virginia Tech 04/16/07

Amish Country, PA

Wisconsin

Columbine High School

Moses Lake , Washington 2/2/96

Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97!

Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97

West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97

Stam! p, Arkansas 12/15/97

Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98

Edinboro , Pennsylvania 4/24/98

Fayetteville , Tennessee 5/19/98

Springfield , Oregon 5/21/98

Richmond , Virginia 6/15/98

Littleton , Colorado 4/20/99

Taber , Alberta , Canada 5/28/99

Conyers , Georgia 5/20/99

Deming , New Mexico 11/19/99

Fort Gibson , Oklahoma 12/6/99

Santee , California 3/ 5/01 and

El Cajon , California 3/22/01?

Sincerely,

Concerned Student

-----------------------------------------------------

Reply:

Dear Concerned Student:

I am not allowed in schools.

Sincerely,

God

----------------------------------------------------------

How did this get started?...

-----------------

Let's see,

I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained

she didn't want any prayer in our schools.

And we said, OK..

------------------

Then ,

someone said you better not read the Bible in school,

the Bible that says

"thou shalt! not kill,

thou shalt not steal,

and love your neighbors as yourself,"

And we said, OK...

-----------------

Dr. Benjamin Spock said

we shouldn't spank our children

when they misbehaved

because their little personalities

would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.

And we said,

an expert should know what he's talking about

so we won't spank them anymore..

------------------

Then someone said

teachers and principals better not

discipline our children when they misbehave.

And the school administrators said

no faculty member in this school

better touch a student when they misbehave

because we don't want any bad publicity,

and we surely don't want to be sued.

And we accepted their reasoning...

------------------

Then someone said,

let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,

and they won't even have to tell their parents.

And we said, that's a grand idea...

------------------

Then some wise school board member said,

since boys will be boys

and they're going to do it anyway,

let's give our sons all the condoms they want,

so they can have all the fun they desire,

and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.

And we said, that's another great idea...

------------------

Then some of our top elected officials said

it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.

And we said,

it doesn't matter what anybody,

including the President,

does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....

------------------

And someone else took that appreciation a step further

and published pictures of nude children

and then stepped further still by

making them available on the Internet.

And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

------------------

And the entertainment industry said,

let's make TV shows and movies that promote

profanity, violence and illicit sex...

And let's record music that encourages

rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...

And we said,

it's just entertainment

and it has no adverse effect

and nobody takes it seriously anyway,

so go right ahead.

------------------

Now we're asking ourselves

why our children have no conscience,

why they don't know right from wrong,

! and why it doesn't bother them to

kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

------------------

Undoubtedly,

if we thought about it long and hard enough,

we could figure it out.

I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"

------------------

[mugsy]

We have a moment of silence, to be used how ever the students want to use it, every morning and then we say the Pledge (now keep in mind that I have ONE student out of 24 that will say it and it's like pulling teeth to get them to even look at the flag (another rant for another time). I don't care how people use that time and if they have quiet time, do as you please with your mind. I only get angry when any group shoves their beliefs (or lack thereof) down my throat....and that's why I believe open prayer in school should not be allowed...we still have separation of church and state...

The other thing...everyone is so ready to jump on the schools for being responsibile for the shootings...what happened to the families?? At what point do families become responsible for what is happening? As a teacher, I can promise you that even in the last 12 years of me teaching with a contract, the students have changed. They have become lazier, less responsible for their actions, less caring about their fellow living beings, and far more expecting that society is supposed to take care of them and they don't need to do anything except have the government support them...where does that come from? All of those things are what cause these kids to do what they do in schools. Ok, I'll shut up now! lol

[sparks19]

I like that Wombat.

I had to take a Taxi home yesterday and I can't remember how we got on the subject but we were talking about kids these days.....

The cab driver said "Kids are born crazy..... it's the parents job to straighten them out." lol he was joking (sorta) but I like that Today they have taken all responsibility off of the parents.... off of anyone really. Your child is misbehaving? he must have a disorder of some kind.... it's not his fault he can't behave.... he needs to be pumped full of drugs to help him behave. NO HE NEEDS A SWIFT KICK IN THE BUTT to help him behave.

Just like kids can't play dodgeball and tag in school anymore because it's a game of exclusion and it singles out the weaker kids and their feelings get hurt and it's not fair..... WELL life isn't fair.... how does any of that prepare them for when they get into the real world and HAVE to face disappointment. and they wonder why kids suddenly snap when they are expected to be responsible for themselves when no one ever taught them to be responsible..... when they grew up with sunshine and puppies and no one ever lost and no one ever won and everyone was equal. Suddenly they are thrown into real life where someone DOES win and someone DOES lose and things aren't always fair and equal and hunky dorey. and I don't know about you.... but tag never made me feel like an outcast or feel excluded or hurt my feelings. it was a game.... sometimes you win and sometimes you lose but it's still fun. And that is not the schools fault that they aren't allowed to help prepare kids for life..... heck even parents aren't expected to do that anymore.

Can you even say the pledge of allegience in schools anymore?

"everything I need to know about life I learned in Kindergarten" That used to be true.... not anymore.


EDIT: Mugsy.... excellent post.

[finn's mom]

This is an interesting thread. I'll keep reading it as people keep posting. And, just as a side note, I hated games like tag and dodgeball, I always felt small and meek and left out. I was always the last person chosen. The main reason for it was because I am physically small and I was also always the youngest in my class. But, honestly, that is part of growing up. I think it's ridiculous that they completely banned those sports from schools. With the obesity in children today, I'd be adding more sports, not taking them out.

As for prayers in schools, I'm all for "moment of silence" to pray or not pray to whatever God(s) you choose.

[lizbud]

I'll keep reading it as people keep posting. And, just as a side note, I hated games like tag and dodgeball, I always felt small and meek and left out. I was always the last person chosen. The main reason for it was because I am physically small and I was also always the youngest in my class. But, honestly, that is part of growing up.

I loved those school yard games, probably because I was very good
at them.

[sparks19]

This is an interesting thread. I'll keep reading it as people keep posting. And, just as a side note, I hated games like tag and dodgeball, I always felt small and meek and left out. I was always the last person chosen. The main reason for it was because I am physically small and I was also always the youngest in my class. But, honestly, that is part of growing up. I think it's ridiculous that they completely banned those sports from schools. With the obesity in children today, I'd be adding more sports, not taking them out.

As for prayers in schools, I'm all for "moment of silence" to pray or not pray to whatever God(s) you choose.

Good point. While schools can't and shouldn't be blamed for obesity..... school might be the only time those kids get any exercise and won't just be sitting in front of the TV.

Seems funny how schools are doing the parents jobs..... getting the kids outside, schools offering lunches (when I was in elementary we didn't have a cafeteria.... your parents had to pack a lunch and if they didn't the school called to find out why you didn't have a lunch), and they have to be the disciplinarians.... and then it's the schools that get blamed for a childs behaviour.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

The cab driver said "Kids are born crazy..... it's the parents job to straighten them out." lol he was joking (sorta) but I like that Today they have taken all responsibility off of the parents.... off of anyone really. Your child is misbehaving? he must have a disorder of some kind.... it's not his fault he can't behave.... he needs to be pumped full of drugs to help him behave. NO HE NEEDS A SWIFT KICK IN THE BUTT to help him behave.

Just like kids can't play dodgeball and tag in school anymore because it's a game of exclusion and it singles out the weaker kids and their feelings get hurt and it's not fair..... WELL life isn't fair.... how does any of that prepare them for when they get into the real world and HAVE to face disappointment. and they wonder why kids suddenly snap when they are expected to be responsible for themselves when no one ever taught them to be responsible..... when they grew up with sunshine and puppies and no one ever lost and no one ever won and everyone was equal. Suddenly they are thrown into real life where someone DOES win and someone DOES lose and things aren't always fair and equal and hunky dorey. and I don't know about you.... but tag never made me feel like an outcast or feel excluded or hurt my feelings. it was a game.... sometimes you win and sometimes you lose but it's still fun. And that is not the schools fault that they aren't allowed to help prepare kids for life..... heck even parents aren't expected to do that anymore.

Can you even say the pledge of allegience in schools anymore?

"everything I need to know about life I learned in Kindergarten" That used to be true.... not anymore.

I was one of those well-behaved children. I was obedient, polite, and quiet. I received straight A's and my teachers all loved me. I never once received a detention, or ever came close. Was I happy? Of course not, my father was a classic authoritarian parent and I was simply conditioned to behave that way. I would take a happy, normal child any day and I think that people who talk about "kids these days" are simply glossing over their own childhoods or are completely out of touch with kids.

I work with kids every single day and I can tell you that they are not anything like what I would think hearing some people describe them. They are fun to be around, and frankly they have minds of their own and don't need to be programmed like robots to think exactly what their parents think. Chances are, if parents are good role models the kids will pick up on that anyway, and they certainly don't need to be "kicked in the butt."

I also think that it's a good thing that exclusionary games are being removed from schools. Life is NEVER "sunshine and puppies" no matter what. But, why would you ever set your child up for disappointment if you could avoid it? That doesn't make sense to me, but then again neither does saying that all we really need is a kindergarten education. Guess I just wasted about 17 years of my life then, huh?

[sparks19]

I was one of those well-behaved children. I was obedient, polite, and quiet. I received straight A's and my teachers all loved me. I never once received a detention, or ever came close. Was I happy? Of course not, my father was a classic authoritarian parent and I was simply conditioned to behave that way. I would take a happy, normal child any day and I think that people who talk about "kids these days" are simply glossing over their own childhoods or are completely out of touch with kids.

I work with kids every single day and I can tell you that they are not anything like what I would think hearing some people describe them. They are fun to be around, and frankly they have minds of their own and don't need to be programmed like robots to think exactly what their parents think. Chances are, if parents are good role models the kids will pick up on that anyway, and they certainly don't need to be "kicked in the butt."

I also think that it's a good thing that exclusionary games are being removed from schools. Life is NEVER "sunshine and puppies" no matter what. But, why would you ever set your child up for disappointment if you could avoid it? That doesn't make sense to me, but then again neither does saying that all we really need is a kindergarten education. Guess I just wasted about 17 years of my life then, huh?

Well I didn't have an authoritative parent. I was happy as a child. I was just taught from the beginning that my actions had consequences. i was allowed to make my own decision but I was always told that making the wrong decision could result in consequences and those consequences were enforced. Doesn't mean my parents were strict or authoritative. There is a balance between teaching your kids right and wrong and being overbearing and overly strict. My parents were not strict..... they just made the rules very clear. I had to be home by curfew.... and I was. by no means what I a straight A student.... but I didn't steal, I didn't beat up other kids, I didn't run away from home, etc etc. children need a good balance of family, love and discipline. AND NEVER discipline while angry and after the punishment is doled out always sit down with your child and TALK about WHY they are being punished and always end with an "I love you very much". You don't have to beat your kids into submission or keep them under lock and key. Just teach them the rules from a very young age.... teach them respect..... compassion.... love.... and understanding. Discipline and following the rules is not programming them to believe what their parents believe..... telling a child they have to be home by 9 is not programming, telling them they have to be in bed by ten is not programming, telling them they have to eat some vegetables is not programming. They are RULEs. Everyone has rules, everyone has to follow rules, children included. AND they need to be given responsibilities in order to learn responsibility. My brother wouldn't let his kids be home alone after school when they were 14. I was babysitting when i was 11 (of course it was different times and there is more to worry about now) Kids need to earn trust.... and with trust comes freedom and responsibility. My mom trusted me because I didn't betray her trust, I was given a lot of freedom because I earned it. Was I a perfect child? HECK no lol. I had ATTITUDE and lots of it. Did I get away with back talk? no i didn't. but I still slammed my bedroom door and threw my tantrums lol.... but when it came to the big stuff, I could be trusted and I earned that. and that was a great feeling for me knowing that I had that freedom and I worked hard to get it.

Setting up your kid for disappointment? WHAT? lol. So they shouldn't play board games because they might not be good at them and lose and be disappointed? they shouldn't play sports because they might not be the best on the team and lose and be disappointed? Tag is no different. I wasn't the fastest kid in the yard..... I wasn't good at sports.... I wasn't the first kid picked for every game..... but it didn't destroy me for life. Kids will learn disappointment one way or another.... better to learn that you can't always win earlier in life rather than have them find out as a highschool student that life doesn't always give you what you want and then they SNAP. That's not setting a kid up for disappointment that's setting a kid up for life. they aren't always going to pass the test..... they aren't ALWAYS gonna get the girl/guy..... they aren't always gonna win the game..... they aren't always going to get their way. Why is that wrong? the point is that when disappointment happens they learn how to deal with it..... you as a parent sit down and talk to them about the game they lost or the test they didn't do so great on and tell them that they can't win all the time but if they tried their best and had a good time then the rest really isn't that big a deal and tell them how proud you are of them. that is not setting them up for disappointment. Sometimes they will win and that is great but they also have to learn to be a gracious winner. but sometimes they will lose and they have to learn not to be a sore loser, tomorrow is another day with new surprises and tomorrow that game or that test will just be a memory..... it will give them great coping skills for later in life (especially high school which is FULL of disappointments).

As for the "everything I learned about life I learned in Kindergarten" are you serious? You are seriously getting up in arms about that? lol it's just a saying. In other words.... in Kindergarten you learn to SHARE, and INTERACT, and they learn A LOT of basics for life. But now..... they shouldn't HAVE to share, they shouldn't HAVE to do anything they don't WANT to do, They shouldn't HAVE to clean up their own mess. http://www.peace.ca/kindergarten.htm Read it.... it's cute.... and true. It's a joke


EDITED TO ADD: LOL there are two different debates going on in one thread haha one about kids and one about guns. how often does that happen lol