Muhammad cartoon row intensifies

[Lady's Human]

PCB, most of the time when someone publishes something offensive to Americans the rest of America doesn't start calling for the death of the offender. If anything they ask that the offender be fired.

I haven't seen the cartoons, and might not like them if I did, but I wouldn't boycott an entire country over them. I support the Danish Government in their protection of the freedom of speech, not what the speech was.

The paper has also published an explanation and an apology :

http://www.jp.dk/meninger/ncartikel:aid=3527646

[gini]

PCB, most of the time when someone publishes something offensive to Americans the rest of America doesn't start calling for the death of the offender. If anything they ask that the offender be fired.

I haven't seen the cartoons, and might not like them if I did, but I wouldn't boycott an entire country over them. I support the Danish Government in their protection of the freedom of speech, not what the speech was.

The paper has also published an explanation and an apology :

http://www.jp.dk/meninger/ncartikel:aid=3527646

I have been thinking about this thread ever since early this morning. I had one main thought - why - why, is it that the word DEATH has to be the response. LH just expressed my concern much better than I could have.

[lizbud]

I have not seen the cartoons so I can't comment to much about
them, but if I understand, any picture of Muhammud whould have been
seen as an insult.

I did think this comment was a something that Muslims should think
over.

"Muslims of the world be reasonable," wrote editor Jihad Momani.

"What brings more prejudice against Islam, these caricatures or pictures of a hostage-taker slashing the throat of his victim in front of the cameras or a suicide bomber who blows himself up during a wedding ceremony in Amman"

[Lady's Human]

Agreed, Liz. His comments were the most sensible remarks on the whole affair.


(Liz, you're scaring me, this is three times we've agreed in the last month)

[RICHARD]

Let's pull out the PIT BULL card.


Same difference.


A few pits attack and kill people.

"let's ban the breed!"

Why?

Because of the few bad ones out there?

Dogs cannot figure right from wrong. They go by instinct.

In order for ANY GROUP to be looked at without a jaundiced eye, let them clean their own porch before they demand the neighbors clean theirs.

I am amazed that people who have not seen a cartoon would want someone dead. (I also heard that people were clamoring for kidnappings and more violence against the west...)

this is the first time I have seen anyone buring flags and effigies in the street, shooting Ak-47s into the air or planning for kidnappings over a cartoon.


It truly is mystifying.

[popcornbird]

LH, there is a difference between insulting a country, and insulting God's prophet that billions believe in and love so deeply. I wouldn't really care if someone said something offensive about a Muslim 'country', but a cartoon of Prophet Muhammad with bombs strapped around him...... That just infuriates me. It is kinda of like how a Christian would feel if someone did such a thing against Jesus, and published it for all the world to see. Of course Christians would be very angry. I'm sure Muslims would join Christians in the anger too, because we believe Jesus is a prophet of God and love him. Offending a 'country', and doing something like this, that is basically attacking the vital beliefs of 1/5th of the entire world population is a completely different thing. I can't understand blaming the whole Denmark for it. I'm only angry with those responsible, and yes, they need to apologize/take action against it.

[Lady's Human]

PCB, people make similarly offensive statements about Christ all the time (the Last Temptation of Christ(movie) Piss christ (a theoretical work of art), the list is endless, yet the Christian world does not call for the offender's head on a platter, as many imams and the "arab street" have done. Salman Rushdie is STILL underground because of a fatwah against him from decades ago. We have our wingnuts,(Pat Robertson) but they normally don't incite entire populations to riot and burn flags.

Again, I support the actions of the Danish government, not because I agree with the cartoons, but because to steal a quote "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it until my death".

[poofy]

What would Muhammad do?
History suggests the prophet was more pragmatic than followers rioting in his name.

By Jamil Momand, JAMIL MOMAND is a professor of biochemistry at Cal State Los Angeles.

"Not again," I thought. "Don't we Muslims ever get tired of complaining?"

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...ostemailedlink

[lizbud]

Thanks for the link. Good article.

[Sus]

I think it is safe to say that the publication of the Mohammad drawings in a danish newspaper resulted in an "unholy mess"...?

When Randi showed me that she had started a thread on this subject, I could not believe it! I thought it was very much unlike her to bring up a subject this controversial... and I was almost afraid to read it!

Now I'm glad that I did, because it made me feel a lot less alone, seeing that your thoughts resemble mine. When I began to read the thread, I thought that I - as a dane - would have a lot of explaining to do, but I can see that there is no need for that. I also enjoyed reading the fine newspaper articles posted by Lizbud and Poofy.

I have seen the drawings on TV only. The "Jyllands Posten" is not a big newspaper in DK, and so I (and most other danes) wouldn't have known anything about them - had the muslims not reacted so strongly.

In the beginning all I felt was total astonishment and disbelief: How on earth could anyone be so mad about a measly drawing in a paper, when there are so many terrible things going on in the world? As things developed, the absurdity of it all made me giggle even if the crisis and the wrath of the muslims should be taken very seriously and is nothing to giggle about. But during the first days of the crisis it was all so completely surreal to me, and I had to struggle to really get it into my system, that this was actually happening. I remember thinking that if I didn't get a grip soon, I should probably still be laughing when a bomb landed on my head.

After that first reaction followed some days of fear. I didn't sleep very well at night. Not so much for the fear of incomprehensible bombs but because of the fear of being misunderstood and harmed as a result of the stupid misunderstanding, that our Prime Minister didn't want to apologize for the drawings, when the truth is that he has no jurisdiction over the danish newspapers and therefore cannot decide what they may or may not publish. It really made me uneasy that the angry communities seemed unable to understand this separation between government and the media. As for possible terrorist retaliation on danish soil, all I can do is hope that I'm somewhere else than the bomb on that particular day.

I think it was allright for the editor to apologize, though. As long as he only apologizes for the sorrow and hurt he has caused, just as I would apologize to a friend if I inadvertedly overstepped her boundaries and made her sad or cross with me.

I would absolutely hate it, if Anders Fogh ever apologizes on behalf of the nation for bringing the drawings! That would be apologizing for us being danes! It would be apologizing for the fact that we are brought up in another culture and with other traditions. Before I began writing this I looked up the word "satire" in my dictionary - I wasn't sure that the concept existed in english (sorry!) - but I see that it does. In my view satire means a great deal to us. We use it a lot. We soften harsh truths with it, and we use it to make problems easier to live with. The concept is part of what is is to be danish. At least that is what I think. Where I come from, its ok to make jokes of almost everything - the only exception being jokes about the disabled. That, luckily, is still a taboo.

In general, I guess, danes are an "unholy bunch!" I guess as a people we are more practical than spiritual, and we prefer a good laugh over a prayer any day (sorry, no offense intended! Is only explanatory). Personally, I do recognize the enormeous strength you can gather from having a belief, all I am saying is that believing in any power higher than the country's prime minister is not an easy task for a dane. If anything, we should be pitied rather than persecuted for not having that ability, and for being unable to understand people that do!

Well, that's just what I think... and I shall always strive to keep in mind, that your opinion is just as good as mine!

And now I forgot the smilies again..!

Lots of love,
Sus and Bella

[Randi]

I think it is safe to say that the publication of the Mohammad drawings in a danish newspaper resulted in an "unholy mess"...?

Oh yes, indeed it did!! However, the muslims living in Denmark have certainly been forced to take a stand, they are forming various groups, fighting each other. I personally like the views of Naser Khader, who is a member of the Danish Parliament - now more popular than ever. Not what the fanatics had expected.

I also think it was allright for the editor to apologize, though - as long as he only apologizes for the sorrow and hurt he has caused. The Prime Minister made a lame attempt to get things settled in an interview on an Arabic TV station - he didn't do very well, it was actually quite an embarressing performance!

... that believing in any power higher than the country's prime minister is not an easy task for a dane.

It's hard enough to believe anything he says!!

Ps. I saw the drawings, they're in the link I posted earlier - I've seen a lot worse than those!

[Pawsitive Thinking]

A few fanatics are being spoon fed by the media (or paid) to blow this out of proportion..................the world is in a bad enough state as it is without this sort of nonsense

[caseysmom]

There was a british man on a talk show this morning that said a few of the facts weren't making it over to the american press...one of those was that for months none of the muslims in Denmark cared about the cartoons and then an iman in another country made some pictures of what he thinks the Danish think of muslims and this got people up in outrage when he had made those up himself. Those are different drawings than the original 12 cartoons but were highly offensive.

Not sure of fact 2, I had to come in to work.

[popcornbird]

Very honestly, I think the media blows anything that has to do with Muslims out of proportion. Their reason? I don't know, but it seems to me they have a goal of turning the world against Islam and Muslims, and that's why they seem to show these things, and make it like the whole Muslim world wants to hurt anyone from Denmark. Its kind of funny how people get influenced by the media so easily. Its a twisted image the media likes to present, and funny how so many come to biased conclusions based on that.

I laugh so hard when people look at Muslim women as 'oppressed' because of the over garments we wear to cover ourselves when going outside. Have any of these people ever asked Muslim women how they feel about that? Speaking for myself, my family, my friends, strangers posting on internet forums, ANY Muslim woman I know, I can tell you, we LOVE wearing it, and to not be allowed to wear it would be 'oppression' to us. It gives us a sense of dignity and security, and gives strange men the message of *do NOT touch me*...he he he. It makes me feel free from the lustful glances that so many women have to deal with, and living in the mainstream society, I *know* that it doesn't end at just lustful glances. Very often, especially amongst youngsters, it goes a lot further, and many times leads to broken families, and hurt/angry people in society.

My point in this...I just want to give you some feedback from the Muslim point-of-view. Am I hurt by the Prophet Muhammad cartoons? Of course I am. Any Muslim would be angered by such a thing. I do not, however, know anyone who resorts to violence because of this, other than what the media shows. I certainly do not condone such violence or such behavior. Its ridiculous. I believe Prophet Muhammad would be very angry if he knew how some of these people are behaving. There are stories from the time of Prophet Muhammad of his enemies who tried to kill him. His companions captured them and took them as prisoners to the Prophet. Prophet Muhammad treated those prisoners with such kindness, treating them to the best of meals, and then released them without harm. Instead of leaving him, they were touched by his kindness and behavior, and returned to him to become Muslims. This is how Prophet Muhammad treated people who were not only against him, but were plotting to kill him, and turned them from his worst enemies, to his dearest companions. A true Muslim who loves Prophet Muhammad would follow his example when it comes to such things and not lose their minds or behave in such insanity.

All of the violence we see is on the media. I have family in Muslim countries...in Pakistan, and in the United Arab Emirates. They haven't said a thing about any such violence on the streets. I'm sure there are people out there protesting, and if its peaceful protesting to show the world we're not dead people...we will not allow anyone to say such things against Prophet Muhammad, fine. I'm all for peaceful protests to have your voice heard. There's no reason for violence though. Some people are just idiots, and the media LOVES to show 'those' people, blow things out of proportion, and give Islam a 'false' bad image. I'm quite positive the media is making a much bigger deal out of this than it is. There are probably protests, but I doubt there is this much violence.

Besides...can't people see any GOOD in the Muslims? What was going on in New Orleans at the time of Hurricane Katrina? People were looting, raping, behaving terribly at a time of such tragedy. Did any of these things happen in Pakistan after the recent earthquakes? No. The stories on the news were more like victims welcoming reporters and sharing whatever little food they had to eat with them. Its something to think about. The media just likes to show the bad things. Its a pity that sensible people should believe all Muslims are bad because of the media. Face it. There is good and bad in every society. EVERY society. Media just likes to show the bad and conceal the good.

I have a question. Do any of you have Muslim friends?...and if you do, have you ever seen them behave in a violent manner? I could understand people who don't know any Muslims believing the media, but people who have Muslim friends shouldn't think this way. I'm sure most of you don't know many Muslims though...perhaps.

[gini]

The following article is currently appearing on CNN.com.

Is this what Mohammad taught? To always seek revenge? To call for vengeance?




Friday, February 3, 2006; Posted: 2:42 p.m. EST (19:42 GMT)

Muslim protesters burn a Danish flag in a Palestinian refugee camp in Sidon, Lebanon.


GAZA CITY (AP) -- Tens of thousands of angry Muslims marched through Palestinian cities, burning the Danish flag and calling for vengeance Friday against European countries where caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad were published.

Angry protests against the drawings spread in the Muslim world.

In Washington, the State Department criticized the drawings, calling them "offensive to the beliefs of Muslims."

In Iraq, thousands demonstrated after Friday mosque prayers, and the country's leading Shiite cleric denounced the drawings. About 4,500 people rallied in the southern city of Basra and burned the Danish flag.

Muslims in Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia demonstrated against the European nations whose papers published the caricatures, including one depicting the Muslim prophet wearing a turban fashioned into a bomb.