Poodles?

**Jessika** · 11-13-2005, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by king2005

! lady was in a couple days ago, she said she wanted the German Shepard to breed with her friends dog.. Guess who is NEVER allowed to buy one of our puppies? her. We frown BIG TIME on people who are going to use the puppies for breeding or not getting them fixed.

Then why not fix them as they come into the kennel and before they're adopted out?? If you charge that much per animal I'm sure you can get them all fixed?

**dab_20** · 11-13-2005, 08:22 PM

yep, thats pretty much the only way you can be SURE they are fixed.

**king2005** · 11-13-2005, 08:30 PM

They are a bit young for that. ALL the pups are 3 months old when we get them. Some haven't even dropped yet. I know I asked many years ago & my shelter wasn't allowed to do it against the owners will, so I'm pretty sure there is a stupid law out there.

**Giselle** · 11-13-2005, 10:33 PM

See, I'm particularly biased against pet stores and am dealing with my own BYB-dog, so I find it extremely difficult to see the sunny side of pet stores. I am VEHEMENTLY against stores that sell animals of any kind. Again, it is my personal belief that the only place to acquire any domestic animal is from 1) a shelter or a form of rescue and 2) a reputable breeder. No other source is acceptable.

As for the bulldog, you claim she is tested... I'm sorry, but you must be confused. You can't possibly claim she is OFA'd because she's too young for it. Her growth plates are still forming and she's much too young to have had her x-rays sent in. How could she possibly be OFA'd? Anyways, if you still claim her to be OFA'd, could you please PM her numbers to me? My question was: is her sire and dam OFA'd and CERF'd. Better yet, can you please PM me her mother and father's numbers?

I'm curious now. Have her parents been tested for thyroid? What about your plethora of GSD puppies? Have they been tested for Von Willebrands? I'm sure you'd be horrified to know that Standard and Miniature Poodles are susceptible to this canine hemophilia as well. If you claim your breeders to be responsible and not BYBs, I'm curious if they test their Poodles. I'm *especially* curious if your designer mix breeders test their dogs because I, for one, know many of these people do not test their breeding stock, much less provide adequate veterinary care.

I also find it slightly difficult to believe that Ontario has no BYBs. BYBs are tricky people because there is no single definition that fits them all. Some are simply people who believe it would be nice to bring in a little extra profit through breeding Fifi and Fido. But how could these same people possibly be regulated? They don't believe they're doing anything wrong, and in a legal sense, they are completely innocent. BYBs are simply people who breed because they love their dogs and want to make some money (or love money and want to make some puppies

), but they see nothing wrong with what they're doing. Chances are they do not test for hip dysplasia, patella luxation, thyroid problems, von Willebrands, PRA, etc. because doing so would cut into their profits and the suckers who buy their puppies don't even know about these health maladies! I'm sure there are plenty of sick puppies who die or get returned back to your store, and I'm sure there are plenty more healthy puppies who leave your store. But how can you possibly assure the prospective homes that these healthy puppies will continue to remain healthy? How can you assure their dogs will not develop hip dysplasia. Sure, you may cull the puppies who develop HD as young pups, but what can you say for the aging, dysplastic GSD who you sold 6 years old? By definition, the GSD is no longer under the warranty. Yet, the HD was due mainly due to genetics. What kind of back up do you offer then?

And when we talk about the grand scheme of things, when these sick puppies develop congenital defects, do you even care to notify the original breeder whose responsibility it is to prevent and protect these problems? If not, how can you sit there with the knowledge that there is a breeder out there churning out hundreds of puppies each year, possibly doomed to a lifetime of health maladies that cause them pain, but not death?

**Jessika** · 11-13-2005, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by king2005

They are a bit young for that. ALL the pups are 3 months old when we get them. Some haven't even dropped yet. I know I asked many years ago & my shelter wasn't allowed to do it against the owners will, so I'm pretty sure there is a stupid law out there.

Charlie's testicles NEVER dropped and he was still able to be fixed.