Poodles?

**Pam** · 11-13-2005, 04:09 PM

Thank you for that Giselle! I agree 100%. When I see the prices in pet stores, in the mall for example, I am floored at what they are asking. Of course they have to pay the puppy mill breeder and then take a cut for themselves. It is all about dollars and unfortunately the health and well being of these dogs is rarely if ever considered. *Doodle dogs* or whatever ends in oodle these days are a pet peeve with me big time. If everyone is so doodle crazy why not just adopt a poodle or whatever the "d" part of a doodle is.....who knows these days because so many people are breeding poodles with any breed.

Let the people who know the breed and are trying to better the breed do the breeding. Otherwise head to the nearest shelter. If everyone did this, soon there would be no millers in business.

**dab_20** · 11-13-2005, 04:24 PM

i agree!

**king2005** · 11-13-2005, 08:19 PM

The bulldog has all that testing, Shes certifyed & everything (I don't know them all by heart, but she has several pages of stuff.

I know for fact that our dogs don't come from puppy mills or BYB. Ontario has rules for the certificate to be a breeder & thats where all our pups come from, which is only 6 breeders & NO outsiders.

Our store knows the breeders well. If anyone wanted to know about the parents, all they have to do is ask & we would contact our puppy picker upper lady & get the info. She meets all the parents & checks out the breeders kennels.

! lady was in a couple days ago, she said she wanted the German Shepard to breed with her friends dog.. Guess who is NEVER allowed to buy one of our puppies? her. We frown BIG TIME on people who are going to use the puppies for breeding or not getting them fixed.

As a pet store I think we do a really good job. I have yet to see a better pet store. Also the OSPCA checks on us ALL the time & we pass with flying colours.

Any puppy that gets checked by the vets & has a MAJOR health issue that can never be fixed (the hip problem), they are PTS, its not right to sell a pet that will suffer like that & end up being loved & then dying on them far too young.

A bulldog that was sold, had become very ill, a couple weeks later. Our store took the puppy back right away & is forking ALL the medical bills & not putting it towards the insurance.

There is a Yorkie pup that refuses to eat (hes just scared, vet gave him a clean bill of health). Right now, him & his sister are spending nights at an employees house , well college dorm & being fed every couple of hours & getting lots of cuddles & hugs.

I had all they larger hyper pups out running around while I worked (not easy when thay are chewing on my shoe laces hehehe). When the tiny pups are out they get little sweaters to wear so they don't get cold (the kennels are nice, but we keep the backroom cool, so we don't sweat too much while dealing with hot water & scrubbing.).

I know lots of pet stores are bad, but ours is far different. We TRY to do are best & breed healthy pups, birds, rodents & fish. All kittens are drop offs.

**Jessika** · 11-13-2005, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by king2005

! lady was in a couple days ago, she said she wanted the German Shepard to breed with her friends dog.. Guess who is NEVER allowed to buy one of our puppies? her. We frown BIG TIME on people who are going to use the puppies for breeding or not getting them fixed.

Then why not fix them as they come into the kennel and before they're adopted out?? If you charge that much per animal I'm sure you can get them all fixed?

**dab_20** · 11-13-2005, 08:22 PM

yep, thats pretty much the only way you can be SURE they are fixed.

**king2005** · 11-13-2005, 08:30 PM

They are a bit young for that. ALL the pups are 3 months old when we get them. Some haven't even dropped yet. I know I asked many years ago & my shelter wasn't allowed to do it against the owners will, so I'm pretty sure there is a stupid law out there.

**Giselle** · 11-13-2005, 10:33 PM

See, I'm particularly biased against pet stores and am dealing with my own BYB-dog, so I find it extremely difficult to see the sunny side of pet stores. I am VEHEMENTLY against stores that sell animals of any kind. Again, it is my personal belief that the only place to acquire any domestic animal is from 1) a shelter or a form of rescue and 2) a reputable breeder. No other source is acceptable.

As for the bulldog, you claim she is tested... I'm sorry, but you must be confused. You can't possibly claim she is OFA'd because she's too young for it. Her growth plates are still forming and she's much too young to have had her x-rays sent in. How could she possibly be OFA'd? Anyways, if you still claim her to be OFA'd, could you please PM her numbers to me? My question was: is her sire and dam OFA'd and CERF'd. Better yet, can you please PM me her mother and father's numbers?

I'm curious now. Have her parents been tested for thyroid? What about your plethora of GSD puppies? Have they been tested for Von Willebrands? I'm sure you'd be horrified to know that Standard and Miniature Poodles are susceptible to this canine hemophilia as well. If you claim your breeders to be responsible and not BYBs, I'm curious if they test their Poodles. I'm *especially* curious if your designer mix breeders test their dogs because I, for one, know many of these people do not test their breeding stock, much less provide adequate veterinary care.

I also find it slightly difficult to believe that Ontario has no BYBs. BYBs are tricky people because there is no single definition that fits them all. Some are simply people who believe it would be nice to bring in a little extra profit through breeding Fifi and Fido. But how could these same people possibly be regulated? They don't believe they're doing anything wrong, and in a legal sense, they are completely innocent. BYBs are simply people who breed because they love their dogs and want to make some money (or love money and want to make some puppies

), but they see nothing wrong with what they're doing. Chances are they do not test for hip dysplasia, patella luxation, thyroid problems, von Willebrands, PRA, etc. because doing so would cut into their profits and the suckers who buy their puppies don't even know about these health maladies! I'm sure there are plenty of sick puppies who die or get returned back to your store, and I'm sure there are plenty more healthy puppies who leave your store. But how can you possibly assure the prospective homes that these healthy puppies will continue to remain healthy? How can you assure their dogs will not develop hip dysplasia. Sure, you may cull the puppies who develop HD as young pups, but what can you say for the aging, dysplastic GSD who you sold 6 years old? By definition, the GSD is no longer under the warranty. Yet, the HD was due mainly due to genetics. What kind of back up do you offer then?

And when we talk about the grand scheme of things, when these sick puppies develop congenital defects, do you even care to notify the original breeder whose responsibility it is to prevent and protect these problems? If not, how can you sit there with the knowledge that there is a breeder out there churning out hundreds of puppies each year, possibly doomed to a lifetime of health maladies that cause them pain, but not death?

**Jessika** · 11-13-2005, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by king2005

They are a bit young for that. ALL the pups are 3 months old when we get them. Some haven't even dropped yet. I know I asked many years ago & my shelter wasn't allowed to do it against the owners will, so I'm pretty sure there is a stupid law out there.

Charlie's testicles NEVER dropped and he was still able to be fixed.