the presidential debates

[guster girl]

I went online to read about partial abortion and about John Kerry's stand on it. And, as disgusting as the practice is, I have to admit, if it came down to the woman is going to die if she gives birth, I'd have to say I'd save the mother. And, if there's no other way to prevent the death of the mother, I think I'd have to agree with the partial abortion. I don't know, though, maybe some of your thoughts on this will help me see a different perspective. I would think all other options would have to be exhausted before the abortion is carried out. Like maybe if a c-section would save both the mother and baby, but, I'm not even claiming to know any of the reasons a mother's life would be endangered (other than the actual birthing being too strenuous). And, I'm also wondering if there's a restriction on how far along the woman can be. I'm kinda torn on this, because I just don't know if the baby's a couple of weeks away from being born, I'm not sure if I'd choose to save the mother. Ugh, I don't know. Knowing the mother will die if she has the baby, but, saving the baby instead of the mother, that sounds terrible too. So, my ears are open here if anyone wants to say anything about it. Or pm me if this is considered hijacking. I think the topic still goes along the lines of the presidential debates, but, I could be wrong. This is what I read, though.

Partial-birth abortion ban undermine women's right to choose

Question: Do you support the ban on partial-birth abortions recently signed into law?

John Kerry's Answer: I don't support the President's law because it doesn't allow the exception for situations where the health of the woman is at risk. I believe this is a dangerous effort to undermine a woman's right to choose, which is a constitutional amendment I will always fight to protect.

Source: Concord Monitor / WashingtonPost.com on-line Q&A Nov 7, 2003

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Pam
I wish I had a dollar for every time he said "I have a plan" and then directs everyone to his website. Maybe he doesn't realize that not every home in the US has a computer.

Well,

I had access to websites long before I got a computer.....I just pulled furniture away from the walls.....I found dust bunnies too!!!

If Kerry was 'smart' he's take some of the money I sent him and produce a half hour infomercial outlining his ideas - instead of leading the masses on about the 'plan'...

I'd even read a flier of his that one of his cronies placed on my windshield wiper.

------------------------------------------------

I was watching a news program about how some computer game writers produced a Viet Nam era game where you can be "JK" and run around on a swift boat shooting up the Viet Cong....

You pay 10 bucks a month for the service.....

One of the programmers ran JK into the side of a moving boat and stated, "I just ran (JK) into a moving swift boat, not a smart move...."

I wonder if you can shoot a grenade into a rock, get the shrapnel on your elbow and get a purple heart too????



http://kumawar.com/Kerry/screenshots...2ad0217043d642

Includes broadband video news show, real-world intel, satellite images and the background you need to understand a key issue in this year's presidential election.

lololol

Yep, I NEED A VIDEO GAME to understand JK....

What game would we play to understand Tah raise ah??

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by jonza


… and to Richard:
You are almost a caricature of all that people detest in them, doing them much more harm than good. I can only judge from your posts in Pet Talk, but I have to say that you appear to be the most unpleasant person I have ever tried to discuss a serious issue with. You just close your mind, rant and rave incoherently and fire off insults and condescending jokes. I love humor, what I don't like is malicious humor and infantile jokes when discussing a serious subject. If you are typical of what Americans are becoming, then I certainly wouldn't give much for the future of a short sighted and narrow-minded America.
Why can't you just let people try to discuss complex issues in peace? Or try to state your case sanely without gross distortions and stupid jokes? Surely you would rather spend your time polishing your guns and thumping yourself on the chest, or threatening people who you mistakenly believe want to come and "rattle your cage"? It all seems rather pathetic and counter productive. You are just polarizing the situation even more and intensifying the dissension and misunderstandings. When you start doing that, people have a tendency to react in kind, and all sense and reason evaporates, the discussion becomes meaningless. So you have achieved nothing but generate even more hostility. Is there any significance in your posts - or aren't we supposed to take anything that you say seriously? If so, why do you bother?

I was too busy trying to get psyched up about Houston and Atlanta, and the Packers game yesterday, so I passed on your commentary.


You are mean!!!!!!

Just kidding, I wouldn't know you on the street so I can't say anything about the person you are.....it wouldn't be sporting to comment on your personality based on your posts. I'll take the high road on this one.

---------------------------------------------------

A dear friend of mine emailed me this line..

Hmm...this person hates everything I treasure about you.

Talk about disturbed!!!!
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One thing that really worries me about this paragraph..

Surely the intelligent way to face a common enemy is to rally together and fight united against them. That's what normally happens in an intelligent, civilized society. Nobody can deny that the Bush administration has done the precise opposite, polarizing the country and splitting it into two bitterly opposed factions.


Let me get this straight.....A peace mongerer like you wants the civilized society to rally and FIGHT against who???

Polarized country????? I didn't see the weather reports but I know it hasn't snowed here lately....

If you "take me" seriously can we stop for an ice cream first?

[catland]

Originally posted by lizbud
I'm reminded of 1964, when only two Democratic senators - Ernest Gruening of Alaska and Wayne Morse of Oregon - voted against the Tonkin Gulf resolution, which took America into the Vietnam War. And they were called traitors by many at the time.

Here in Oregon we're very proud of Wayne Morse - he was one of the few politicians who wasn't afraid to speak his mind and stick by his convictions.

He finally lost his senate seat to a young ambitious Republican by the name of Bob Packwood.

[Pam]

Jonza I have always enjoyed your Fister posts and stories. This post of yours is quite different. I think Richard is a breath of fresh air at times and often just what is needed in these hot threads to cool people off. It is just a message board. Please don't let it bother you so much. Richard is harmless and life is too short.

[lizbud]

Jonza,

The ignore feature works great. Why bother reading certain
posts if they are just nonsense anyway.
Or you can just breeze on past them as I do. That really helps in
being able to follow the other posts.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud
Jonza,

The ignore feature works great. Why bother reading certain
posts if they are just nonsense anyway.
Or you can just breeze on past them as I do. That really helps in
being able to follow the other posts.

Got a thorn in your shoe?

[lizbud]

No, had one in my side, but I got rid of it........

[christa]

Originally posted by Pam
I think Richard is a breath of fresh air at times and often just what is needed in these hot threads to cool people off.

I agree with Pam Richard is good for this board when things get heated.

It is just a message board.

I think I would have said it this way, Pam . . .

"It's just a PET message board"

LOL, Jonza, you want to have a serious political discussion, go to www.dnc.org . . . They'll agree with everything you say.

[RICHARD]

Pay close attention should the 'stem cell research' topic come up again...

I was looking at an article, and dang if I cannot find it again, about how some scientists found that embryonic stem cells are not the only way to find a way to 'create' other cells.

Basically,

A stem cell needs to be manipulated to attain the characteristics of the cell it is going to replace.

There is some research going on that does not mess with the genes in the cell, there is manipulation of the cell structure, but only to get that cell to multiply-not to get it change to another type of cell.

Here in Cah lee fuh nee ah, Ahrnold is looked to for putting money into companies for SCR...

My problem with that is the companies often take the research grants, make a break thru and 'sell' the research back to the public....If they are already paid for the research, by the public, shouldn't that belong to the people who paid for it?

Why pay for it twice?

------------------------------
I do not agree with the current administration's stance on SCR-
I'd like to see any kind of breakthough with Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and cancers.

But we can only hope.

[lizzielou742]

Originally posted by jonza
This election may be regarded as an "internal affair" by Americans, but due to the huge power that the country exerts in the world today, and not least the development of "globalization", it actually concerns everyone on the planet. So I think everyone has the right to comment on it.

Originally posted by jonza
Surely the intelligent way to face a common enemy is to rally together and fight united against them. That's what normally happens in an intelligent, civilized society. Nobody can deny that the Bush administration has done the precise opposite, polarizing the country and splitting it into two bitterly opposed factions. This problem has to be solved NOW if America is to continue to flourish. The Bush administration obviously can't achieve this.

It must be time for a change in leadership.

Jonza, I agree with these statements 100%.

[jonza]

Originally posted by Pam
Jonza I have always enjoyed your Fister posts and stories. This post of yours is quite different.

I'm sorry if I have annoyed so many of you, most of whom I like and respect, but I'm afraid I have to disagree. The way I see it, if you want entertainment or a good joke, don't come to the Dog House. I have nothing whatsoever against a good joke from Richard, but there is nothing funny about the way the Bush administration is ruining America and harming the global environment to facilitate big business interests. We don't make jokes on posts about horrific animal abuse now, do we?
This isn't a Hollywood film or a reality television show we're talking about, we're destroying our planet fast and getting our priorities wrong, and unfortunately the Bush administration is leading the way at the moment. I just happen to feel very strongly that something must be done about it.

Perhaps people outside America get a different perspective on this mess through their media. It does seem that most of the information in America comes from just a few, very often heavily biased outlets. Over here, in comparison, we have access to many in-depth documentaries, news and debate programs from Britain, France, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Canada etc etc as well as the American versions. (We can even get Arab and Turkish TV, but I must admit we don't watch them!) I would imagine that these together give if not a more balanced view, then at least a broader one. Sometimes one can get a more accurate, objective view from parties that are not personally involved, and who are at a distance.

From Richard:
"Let me get this straight.....A peace mongerer like you wants the civilized society to rally and FIGHT against who???"

I presume that you're purposely misconstruing what I meant. It's obvious that Al Quaida and other terrorist organizations are an international problem that have to be destroyed. I've never suggested that one should never fight. One just shouldn't fight in the wrong place on the basis of a lie. I praised the Americans for invading Afghanistan. But then it all went wrong, and the invasion of Iraq for the wrong reason at the wrong moment broke international law, split alliances and gave the terrorists a wonderful opportunity to expand their activities. I am absolutely 100% sure that Bush's invasion of Iraq has NOT made the world a safer place. And if the argument is that Saddam was a horrible dictator etc and had to be removed, and had devious plans for the future, then what about all the other ones? They're all over the place. But most of them don't have any oil of course.

"If you "take me" seriously can we stop for an ice cream first?"

No thanks, I honestly don't like ice cream, a decent beer would be fine, but I'll remember not to take you seriously, then we can all be friends!

From Christa:
"LOL, Jonza, you want to have a serious political discussion, go to www.dnc.org . . . They'll agree with everything you say."

Thanks for the link, partisan sites are not something I have time for, but I did take a peek, and found an interesting little article on Bush and Kerry's credibility in last Friday's debate (if you can be bothered):

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._10/004897.php


It's funny, I don't think that many people who know me consider me arrogant or narrow minded, but I suppose the Internet is really not a very good forum for debate, misunderstandings arise much too easily. But I have very definite ideas about what's right and what's wrong. Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned.

… and anyway the way I see it, a discussion is a bit pointless if everybody agrees with you! I don't feel the need to polish my ego, and I try to be open-minded.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by jonza

This isn't a Hollywood film or a reality television show we're talking about, we're destroying our planet fast and getting our priorities wrong, and unfortunately the Bush administration is leading the way at the moment. I just happen to feel very strongly that something must be done about it.

Perhaps people outside America get a different perspective on this mess through their media. It does seem that most of the information in America comes from just a few, very often heavily biased outlets.

DUDE,

It gets old to hear about Bush the Evil.

Move to America, become a citizen and vote.

I am not purposely misconstruing your comments about 'fighting'
evil.

We send people out to kick terrorist arse and the world get ticked off. You all get upset and the next post is about "battling evil"

Please make up your mind.

And about pollution.....

Everytime YOU fire up your grill, car, motorcycle, TV, computer, washing machine, fridge or turn on the light to see in the dark,

YOU ARE POLLUTING THE PLANET TOO!!

It's not just George Bush and the robot Americans with our
"few, very often heavily biased outlets".

Those are the kind of opinions that you post that are very misleading and dare I say, uneducated....



People who know you may not think you are arrogant and narrow minded, it's the people who don't know you, you have to convince them.

You don't want to have a serious discussion with me.

I get bored after I hear the same thing twice in five minutes.

If you like, you can apologize to the other misinformed Americans
who post on the board.

I don't need it.

[aly]

Originally posted by jonza

It's funny, I don't think that many people who know me consider me arrogant or narrow minded, but I suppose the Internet is really not a very good forum for debate, misunderstandings arise much too easily. But I have very definite ideas about what's right and what's wrong. Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned.

… and anyway the way I see it, a discussion is a bit pointless if everybody agrees with you!

Jonza - Thank you so much for your posts. I thoroughly enjoy reading them and thank you for taking the time to type your thoughts so eloquently.

I don't think you come across as arrogant or narrow minded at all. If anything, you phrase your sentences so that they can hardly be considered offensive.

[guster girl]

Originally posted by aly
Jonza - Thank you so much for your posts. I thoroughly enjoy reading them and thank you for taking the time to type your thoughts so eloquently.

I don't think you come across as arrogant or narrow minded at all.

I agree with you, aly. I'm still undecided on who I want to vote for, but, I really enjoy jonza's posts.