New dog, won't stop barking...help!

[SunsetRose]

I am unwilling (no flack please) to let her be loose to potentially potty in the house.

Umm, no offense, but why did you get a dog if you can't deal with that kind of stuff or didn't want your house messed up?

I am going to first agree with the others that the dog doesn't belong in the basement. I understand that you have a new house that you would like to keep clean and new looking, but part of having a dog is being able to deal with your posessions being ruined and deal with cleaning up messes. An isolated dog will not make a good pet. In fact, it is isolation that causes many behavioral problems in dogs.

Second, you are not going to be able to successfully potty train her if she is in the basement and you are upstairs. Potty training requires constant supervision, she shouldn't be allowed to have the opportunity to potty where she's not supposed to and this includes in the crate. How are you going to know when she has to go potty and see those signs when you are upstairs watching TV and she is down in the basement completely out of sight and possibly out of mind?

And finally about crate training, you can't force it on her. If she is claustrophobic, then trying to force her into a crate and lock her in there all night will only damage her emotionally and can potentially cause aggression. You must have patience and you must take it one step at a time. If you can't even get her to go in using beggin strips or treats, then you need to stop what your doing and back up and start again using baby steps. And by baby steps, I mean you reward her for every step she makes towards that crate and even sniffing it before you start to get her to walk in.

[GraceByDesign]

Thank you Sunset, for your comments. It seems maybe you did not read the remainder of this thread, and my responses to people, or you would have read that she is not isolated in the basement, she is in a different crate upstairs in the kitchen. And since my last post, she has been allowed out and about in the house in increasing increments of time, and I have been keeping a sharp eye on her. One accident in the basement when my daughter was in charge and I was in the toilet, of course as I was getting ready to take her out to potty.

I got a dog because we want a dog. However, my home is not a toilet. I don't allow people to potty on the floor, and will not allow my pets to do so either. I know accidents happen. We have had 4 now since we got her on Saturday. (3 were Sunday) In fact, this whole 'adopting a dog from the shelter' experience has not gone at all like I had planned. We are trying to roll with things as best we can.

I also mentioned in a previous post that it was not my intention to isolate her in the basement, but it was a nice place to put "her area" with a nice big rug. The basement is unfinished, a great place to play ball and 'fetch the bobo' and get other running exercise. While we do take a couple long walks a day, they are walks, and she has tons of energy and needs to run around. Our house in not huge, and I would like her to know that basement=running around (with and without humans), while living room and kitchen=lazing about with the humans. Dogs are smart. If they can learn where to poop, they can learn where romping play is acceptible.

So anyway, my question was this: While I am taking perhaps days to get her coaxed into the crate, do I just allow her to run loose and poop everywhere?? Seems like this would negate the effects of trying to crate train/ housebreak her in the first place. I am home all day, but I do have to do things, like go to the bathroom myself and sleep, times I cannot supervise her. (((I originally asked this question from a training standpoint, not from the 'mess up my house' view, although in my mind they go hand in hand.)))

[applesmom]

I haven't read the entire thread but I certainly agree with Gracebydesign that any dog; puppy or adult that is being house trained needs constant supervision.

There's nothing wrong with putting the dog/pup in a crate while you take a shower, run to the store, mop a floor etc. However a little advance planning can work things out so that the dog is never confined for unneccesarily long periods of time.

The dog is in a whole new environment, unsure of herself and not knowing what to expect next. A reasonably inteligent dog with the proper supervision will only take a week or so to learn the proper places to go pee and poop.

She isn't going to learn it while locked in the crate! A week or two of putting up with a little inconvience of having to keep an eye on the dog instead of doing things that could wait a few days would solve both of your problems.

Less time in the crate, more time with the dog, and in a couple of weeks everyone will be living happily ever after!

[SunsetRose]

While I am taking perhaps days to get her coaxed into the crate, do I just allow her to run loose and poop everywhere?

You don't necessarily need a crate to potty train a dog. It can be a valuable and helpful tool yes, but it certainly isn't a necessity. I have potty trained 2 puppies and one adolescent dog without a crate. In fact, my dogs have never even seen a crate because I don't have one.

Just keep the dog with you and start by taking him out 30 minutes or so at first. Keep him on a leash if you must so he is always near you. Once he potties outside, praise him like crazy and give him a treat. Then he'll probably need to go back out in another hour to two hours.

Out of curiosity, how were you planning on potty training him with the crate if you weren't going to let him run loose because he might relieve himself on the floor?

[borzoimom]

I haven't read the entire thread but I certainly agree with Gracebydesign that any dog; puppy or adult that is being house trained needs constant supervision.

There's nothing wrong with putting the dog/pup in a crate while you take a shower, run to the store, mop a floor etc. However a little advance planning can work things out so that the dog is never confined for unneccesarily long periods of time.

The dog is in a whole new environment, unsure of herself and not knowing what to expect next. A reasonably inteligent dog with the proper supervision will only take a week or so to learn the proper places to go pee and poop.

She isn't going to learn it while locked in the crate! A week or two of putting up with a little inconvience of having to keep an eye on the dog instead of doing things that could wait a few days would solve both of your problems.

Less time in the crate, more time with the dog, and in a couple of weeks everyone will be living happily ever after!

I agree- and let me add this. Have you taken the dog to the vet for a physical? Excessive urination could be a urinary infection, and excessive bowl activity can be any thing from anal gland infection ( makes the dog 'feel' like they have to go) to even a pancreas problem that is releasing acid into the bowel, or over active bowel from nervousness of being in a new home.. Even parasites like round worms can make more frequent bowel movements.
Also- what are feeding her? Some foods are more digestable than others.
After a clean bill of health- here is a trick that worked for me. I had one dog that was hard to housebreak. I had the dog follow me if I left the room.. It uh got a little tricky in going to the bathroom, but I just kept a light lead on. ( then he wouldnt go like I was uh detained). The Monks use to call this "teethering" meaning the dog just stays with you on a lead. That maybe extreme- but just keeping her with you will not only solve the problem, but also bond her to you as well if this is nervous bowel syndrone.

[GraceByDesign]

Ok, let me rephrase, as it seems that we have gotten a bit off-topic, and I am not getting the advice that I am seeking!

1. My main question morphed from barking into this: If the dog is not in the crate, (because I am using the dinnerbox or other coaxing method) what do I do with her at night? I have to sleep, ergo cannot be keeping an eye on her. I understand tethering, but that only works if you are awake!!

2. The dog is not crated all the time. I am not ignorant about crate training, and have in fact done it before with great success. <<I take the dog out to potty, we have SUPERVISED play time,water, food, whatever it is time for, and then back into the crate. Then gradually the playtime gets longer.>> I just have never had a dog that was averse to the crate. She has only had accidents in the basement so far. (which is why I chose the basement in the first place, so I would not get all upset about accidents... it is a plain concrete floor, easily cleaned.) All of the accidents can trace back to human error.

3. All the other dogs I have had thought of the crate as their den. They would often go and nap in them even with the door open and me home. It was their bed. They went 'into their house' whenever we left the house for more than a very short time, and at night, every night. They went in willingly, and did not fuss. Sometimes they got cookies, but not very often. However, they were crated from the time they were puppies, so it was the norm; just the way things were in our house. The problem here is I have a full grown, 50# dog who does not like the crate, and this was where my questions stemmed from, once we got passed the original barking issue. Please do not misunderstand. I love pets and loved all my dogs very much. But there are boundaries. I am the human, they are the dog. I may just have a few more boundaries than some folks here.

4. As it happens, the crate failed this morning while I was taking dh to work, so no crate training today! (crate was borrowed, and had a crack at the bottom where the door latched in. Crack got bigger and Dot pushed her way out, I guess.)

Took her to vet, no major problems. She does have either sarcoptic mange or ringworm, and a staph. infection...

She does not wet or potty excessively.

Kibble is a combo of Iams and Purina ONE (can't afford barf, unfortunately. No inexpensive source of meat/bones that I can find.) Treats are kibble pieces, Iams small bones, beggin strips (she will eat these now) and pup-peroni, her fave. She did have an apple core yesterday, and ate a small string off her Bobo (loofah dog), oops.

BTW, the original barking problem has been solved with the crate in the kitchen. She just wants to see or hear her people...

[mruffruff]

Since she seems to be accepting of the crate when she can be with her humans, try putting the crate wherever you are. At night, next to the bed so she can smell and hear you. As long as the crate is the right size, this should work. After a few days, move the crate to the other side of the room and eventually to the location where she will always sleep.

Also, keep the crate in whatever room you are both in during the day with the door left open. Toss in a treat occasionally so she can go in and get it without the door being closed behind her.

Right now she is feeling insecure. If you can be in the same room as she is and keep an eye on her, don't crate her. Otherwise, be in the same room with her in the crate and talk to her as much as you can. I would avoid putting her in the basement alone. It is a good place to play with her, but not to be banished to.

I hope this will help. Rescues are a whole different thing than new puppies!

[applesmom]

Perhaps we're getting the wrong picture here. I'm getting the impression that if the dog isn't eating, pooping or playing she's locked in her crate.

Does she get any time out of the crate to just hang out and be with the family without being expected to do something?

[SunsetRose]

I was getting the same impression.

My last question still stands unanswered

Out of curiosity, how were you planning on potty training him with the crate if you weren't going to let him run loose because he might relieve himself on the floor?

[GraceByDesign]

MruffRuff, thank you, that is a most helpful reply.

Sunset and Apple, Yes, you are totally getting the wrong picture. I have tried to explain things as best I can.

• Dot has not spent any time alone in the basement since the first evening (I thought I made this clear in a previous post), except twice when the door was left open and she wandered down there when I was not paying close enough attention. (and subsequently she wet on the floor. my bad, no punishment involved)

• Perhaps when I said we went upstairs, and she did not like it, you did not realize I meant we have a 2 story house with a basement. After the first evening and night, her crate has been in the kitchen. I do have things to do upstairs in the bedrooms during the day, but I could still talk to her, even though she could not see me.

• Dot is has been eating well since Tuesday.

• Dot is going potty in the yard, once a day; wetting in yard several times a day, practically each time she is walked

• She knows her name, sit, lie down, down, go on your bed (a large comforter in the living room) get the <insert name of toy here>, bring it here, drop it, no, go outside, and is working on shake hands.

• She is not pulling on leash so much, which I did not ask about here... I read Cesar's Way and where to position her collar and it worked a miracle! She now trots along side me perfectly.

• She is out of the crate almost full time now, but I don't just let her wander all over the house wherever she wants to go. She stays pretty near me anyway. When I said "gradually playtime gets longer", I meant playtime as time out of the crate, so she learns to hold it, and that our house is an extension of the crate.

• She is in the crate at night now, and accepting of it. Not thrilled, but accepting.

This thread has now answered my original questions, so perhaps it is time to let it go...

Thanks to all.

[lizbud]

Sounds like you have things well in hand now. Best of luck with
continued progress.

[SunsetRose]

Well it sounds like your doing great!

Have you considered talking a basic obedience class with her? Even though she already knows the commands, an obedience class is still a good opportunity for her to socialize. You may pick up a few tricks or hints there as well to improve your training. Take a clicker training class if you can find one. Dot sounds like a smart dog, you would have fun clicker training her.

[DannysMommy]

We just got a new puppy. Our first. What we did was........

Prior to dog being brought home....his house area was closed in. A gate at the Kitchen and at the hall way. He has room in the living room and the dining room. His crate was out in the living room and he was able to sniff all around it prior to ever going in it.

We got a LARGE ( I think for a 50 pound dog?) crate and he is 7.2 pounds at last weigh in.

BUT I put in a bed, 3 toys and a raw hide. There was room to lay down but the rest of the room was FILLED up.

He was not put into the crate untill it was time for bed. Kids were sent to bed, TV was put on music, light.....all but one in the hall was turned off . (This was really for daughter as her night light..........) Then I pick him up, give love and talk puppy talk and say good night..... put him in and walk away with out a second look or word after it's locked.

He cried about 10 min's the first night and never again.

I have never tried to do it during the day as he is only 7.2 pounds and I carry him in my daughter doll carrier every where I go! LMAO or he has free rome of his un-gated area of the house.

I take him out side for about 20-30 min's after eating and after every nap. He's got the idea now and we are sometimes out for less than 45 seconds!

Like I said. I am lucky that I am home right now, so I can give him LOTS of attention and watch for the signs that he needs to go out and see how much he is drinking and go by that.

It was the perfect time to get a puppy.

I've always worked full time before so I couldn't train one.

On his side though....... he seems to be a VERY smart puppy! I will doing some training classes with him and see how he does in those! I think we got VERY lucky and got the real "Pick of the litter" there!

I also ONLY use the crate at night. The area's of the house I don't want him in are gated off, so I don't use it during the day. I will have to start soon during the day....... which I WORRY ABOUT........ right now he's gone everywhere with me and has never been a lone during the day!

I have a few meeting next week for a volunteer role I have, and I worry about him being alone during the day. I will do the same routine......... Lights off (But will be day light) music TV on, put him in right as I go with chew toys, raw hide and bed....... and out the door with out a 2nd look at him. THATS THE PLAN anyway!! LMAO!!

I'm tempted to leave a window open and sit out side to just listen to how he does!! Just so I know! Nothing I can do if he doesn't do well...... I have to go....... just hope for the best and a clean crate when I get home ASAP. LMAO! (I posted here also about how to start daytime crate training!)

Anyway...... sorry...... babbled just a bit huh? Sorry!! LMAO!!

Good luck and I hope it all works out for you and your baby! ( As my kids are 14 and 5........ Danny is the baby!!! LOL!!!)

Best wishes,
Rayna