An Explanation, and a Plea for Forgiveness...

[heinz57_79]

First of all, let me just say thank you to everyone for your kind words. They mean so much to Bella and myself. I wanted to kind of let everyone know what happened, and to ask for forgiveness. I have never had a harder few days. Yesterday started off no different than any other day, really. Bella and I were getting ready to go to work. I put Arthur in the 'laundry room', which is an area outside which is walled in and has a bolted door, that bolts from the outside. I figured he'd be able to hang out there for the couple hours we were at work, while the other 3 hung out in the yard. The door/gate is over 5 ft high. I went back inside to finish getting ready, when i hear fighting outside.... i run out and arthur had managed to get out of the laundry room by climbing over the gate, and had Charlie in his mouth. This attack was unprovoked. And again, he wouldn't let him go. We kicked, beat and did everything we could to get Charlie loose, including picking up a shovel and beating Arthur over the head with it. Nothing was working! Charlie was screaming. I ran inside and called 911. They called Animal Control. Bella managed to get them separated, and was standing between them, with the shovel in her hands screaming for me to get Charlie in the house, which i did.

That's the explanation. Now, I need to ask for forgiveness. Crying and hysterical, we decided that the best thing to do was to put my big boy down. If he could clear a 5 1/2 ft gate to attack unprovoked, what was next? Our wall is shorter than the gate. What happened if he jumped it to get to a dog outside? What if we rehomed him and he attacked a child? We were out of options. I cry now as I write this, because i still wonder if there was something we could have done. At 8am, Dec. 2nd we took Arthur into Animal Control to have him put down. I have never had to do a harder task in my life. we kept talking to him, telling him we loved him, and that we were sorry but I still feel so guilty. He was just a baby, barely 8 months old. And I'm responsible for taking his life. Does that make me a bad mom?

then today, I had to take Charlie to the vet because I noticed a large puncture wound I hadn't noticed yesterday. They shaved a good half of him, from his ears to behind his front legs. And omg! He's so torn up. There is a HUGE wound, the size of a quarter which is really very close to a thru and thru. There are dozens of punctures, bruises and bite marks. He's on anti-biotics, and I have to flush all the major punctures twice a day, which is not as simple as it sounds. The vet said he was very lucky that he didn't get killed. And at that moment I felt so angry. With myself, with Arthur, with Charlie. That is such a horrible feeling.

Please, please forgive me! Arthur, please forgive me. I love you, sweet boy. I'm so sorry and I love you dearly. Rest easy, little boy. You are sorely missed.

[caseysmom]

Sounds like you did the right thing I don't stand in judgement I think if he was doing this at 8 months old it most likely would have escalated and possibly to a person.

Hugs to all of you.

[pitc9]

*~ HUGS*~ To you, Bella and the crew.... Get well soon Charlie.

Arthur will always love you! I'm sure he knew something was not right with himself.... he doesn't blame you, nor do I!

You did what was right to protect your household, and anyone that may have come into your yard!

He's at peace now, and he has you to look after now!

Again, Get Well Soon Charlie!!!

Many many *~Hugs~* to you all.

RIP Sweet Arthur, you have nothing to fear now... play hard.



:(

[Glacier]

I firmly believe that some dogs are just born wired wrong--through no fault of their owners they have issues that can't be overcome. Sounds like Arthur was one of those dogs. I'm sorry that his dog aggression couldn't be managed and that you had to make that decision.

I hope Charlie will recovery quickly from his injuries. Flushing wounds is not fun! I've had to do it a few times myself.

[Karen]

There's no need for us to forgive you, dear heart. And I am sure Arthur already has. The work you will have helping Charlie recover is enough burden on your heart.

You did the right thing sending Arthur to the Rainbow Bridge. I know that in my heart. He was probably as confused by the changes in his own behavior and had no more understanding of it than we do. He lived 8 months of a loved and cherished life. Many dogs don't even get that.

I hope at some point you let his breeder know, so they can tell other pups from his litter's owners about the potential danger.

Arthur was a beautiful dog, and a loved dog. Think of him aggression-free at the Rainbow Bridge, okay?

[vinjashira]

:( It must have been a very hard decision and you must be very upset but you know you have done the right thing.

RIP Arthur

[micki76]

JC, I think you and Bella did the right thing. Sometimes, hard as it is for me to say this, it's the best option. A dog that large and strong who is "wired wrong" as Glacier said (and I agree with her), would just be a serious danger to the public. Yes, there was a chance that he could have been rehomed, but what if that home didn't work out? What if the people in that home weren't honest about his animal aggression when they then surrendered him? What if they really couldn't handle him or treated him wrong and his aggression turned to humans?

I'm so sorry you had to make this decision and I hope Charlie heals quickly and without infection.

I'm sorry you all had to go through this. :(

{{{{{Hugs to you all}}}}}

[chocolatepuppy]

Please don't feel guilty! What could you do? I believe you did the right thing. Arthur is at the RB waiting for you and he will not be angry at you. Whatever was wrong with him will be ok now that he's there. So sorry you had to go through this and for the loss of your Arthur. Hugs to you and Bella and your pups. I hope Charlie gets well soon.

[RottiMommy49]

My heart aches for you and the sadness you feel over what has taken place in your family. i can only imagine how terrible this was for you to live through. you need not feel guilty or ashamed of what you did, it was the kindest act for Arthur and the rest of the fur babies you have. Arthur is at peace now and is not a threat to anyone, anymore. It's going to take time for you to heal as this really isn't much different than losing a pet due to an illness or old age. It all hurts the same. yes it's sad when it's a young dog but you had no other choice. You likely saved a worse situation from happening. Don't be too hard on yourself, you have suffered enough pain already. God Bless and help you're broken heart mend fast.
(((((gentle hugs)))))

[Thandi]

You absolutely did the right thing, as hard as it was, please don't feel guilty. And lots of hugs to Charlie, I hope he recovers soon without any ill effects, emotionally or physically.

[sammy101]

i think you did that right thing.Im sure he didnt want to live like that all his life..which is very sad.:( im so sorry about your Arthur.
{{Hugs}}

RIP Arthur

[My Peanuts]

I really believe you did the right thing. I for one, commend you for being a strong enough person to make what was obviously the right decision.

[AmberLee]

What a difficult decision you had to make. Our thoughts and prayers are with in you in this rough time for your family.

[dukedogsmom]

As I stated earlier, it's much easier for a lot of people to say what they would have done if it were them. You did what you think was best for everyone involved. It sounds like Arthur did have some major issues that couldn't be addressed. It's sad but at least he's at peace now. I hope Charlie gets a lot better soon.

[LorraineO]

I agree with everyone elses sentiments.... he was just not right for one reason or another,, and you did your very best.... He is happy and aggression free at RB,, I am sure of that.... Please forgive your heart..... you did the most loving thing possible,,, you gave him forever freedom and no worries for an eternity.....

[CountryWolf07]

Oh sweetie, I am very sorry to hear about what happened.. like, everyone else - You could not help it - either could Arthur.. I hope Charlie will be alright. I will be thinkin' of you! Please don't take it so hard on yourself..

[prechrswife]

I know the decision is weighing heavy on you, but you made the right decision for safety's sake. We have friends who have been through a very similar situation with their lab/pit mix and their cocker spaniel. It was tough on them, as well. These decisions are never easy ones.

[GraciesMommy]

I can't say it any better than all your brothers and sisters here at PT. I know the heavy heart you must have..but you certainly don't owe anyone an apology..you did what you had to do. Any of us in your shoes would have made the same decision..Big group hug~

[lizbud]

Rest in Peace Arthur. :( Be happy at the Rainbow Bridge
sweetheart.

[Logan]

I haven't been here a lot in the last week or so, and I'm unfamiliar with Arthur's aggression. But based on what you have said, I think you made a very tough, but mature decision. There will be people that disagree, whether they post here or somewhere else, they will. But it doesn't matter. In your heart, you did what was right, and you had control. If only we could control olther parts of our lives this way. Wouldn't that be great?

[KYS]

There is no need to ask us for forgiveness.
You did what you thought was best.
Sending oodles of good thoughts for Charlies recovery.

[DogLover9501]

What a tough decision :( I'm so sorry that you had to make it.

You don't need to ask us for forgiveness, it was such a hard situation and you thought of all the other options and did the one you thought was best for Arthur.

I can't imagine the pain you must be feeling, but Arthur has already forgiven you and knows you did what was right for him, as he could have ended up in alot of trouble, and he's safe and aggression free now.

RIP Athur :(

And get well soon Charlie.

[LuckiLab03]

I'm sorry to hear about Arthur.. I can't imagine how you must be feeling. Don't beat yourself up over it, you did what you have to do.. decisions like those are never easy, we never want to put our babies down.

I hope Charlie is doing okay and I hope Arthur rests in peace.

[bckrazy]

wow, :( I'm so sorry to you and Bella and Anna, Charlie, and Chloe.. what a sad experience to happen to such great owners, and a great dog. I agree that Arthur was unfortunately "wired wrong"... and it would definately only get worse, since he was only 8 months. Don't apologize at all!.. Both of you are so brave to sacrifice your baby for the sake of your dogs, and all the other dogs and people Arthur may have hurt in the future. It's easier said then done, but you guys shouldn't feel guilty, what you did is the most responsible, ethical, and loving thing you could've done for Arthur :(... can't even imagine your pain, but I hope you all feel better soon, and try to be comforted by the fact that you really made the safe decision. I also agree to let his breeder know about this, if you haven't already..

[Corinna]

I think you made the right choice rehoming would have been risky at best. As glacier said some are just wired wrong.I hope Charlie gets well fast and with no perment damage. {{hugs }} to you and Bella.

[PJ's Mom]

First of all, let me say how sorry I am to hear about your Arthur. I hope he finds the peace at the RB he seemed to be missing here. :(

Now, let me tell you from experience that you did the right thing. I had to do exactly the same thing a couple of years ago when a dog I rescued (and learned to love very much) bit my daughter on the face. If you think you feel guilty because Arthur attacked Charlie, imagine how you would've felt had he attacked a child and even worse...your child. From everything I've read about your boy, it sounds like it would've happened eventually.

You have absolutely no reason to feel guilty. These things happen sometimes and Arthur knew he was loved. I hope Charlie makes a speedy recovery. :)

[Cincy'sMom]

JC, I truely belive you did what was best for yourself, your other pets, and Arthur. And while you certainly don't need our approval to do what in your heart was the right thing, I don't think anyone has the right to judge you for what you did.

It would not have been fair for you to put yourself in a position of living in fear not knowing what Arthur might do next, or when that agression toward dog could turn and become an aggression toward humans.

RIP Arthur.

Get well soon Charlie!!

[4 Dog Mother]

Having a dog that can get aggressive with other dogs, I know exactly how you felt when Arthur attacked Charlie. The fact that he wouldn't let Charlie go tells me a lot. Although Dazzi will attack other dogs I can pull her off and afterwards she knows she was wrong and will not go after the other dog again. With Dazzi there is often no puncture wounds but just lots of growling, rolling around, etc.

I too think Arthur was "wired" wrong. You did the right thing. It would have only gotten worse and something or even someone would have been killed.

RIP Arthur.

Get well, Charlie!

[lbaker]

I'm so very sorry things had to end up this way. But you & Bella know your family - of humans and furkids - could not have gone on this way day after day. Do know you made the right decision and do try to go on now. Try to take care of yourselves and know that poor Arthur is finally now peaceful in his mind. We love you and are here for you, whenever and wherever.

[anna_66]

First off let me say I am very sorry that Arthur is gone.

Now, I Know that I am going to get slammed up one side and down the other, but I feel I must say this and please understand I'm not trying to be mean.

No, I wasn't there to know exactly what happened. But I went back and was reading your posts on the agression and from what I read, it was Charlie that was causing the problems. Even being mean to Anna. So no, I can't say I understand your decision as it sounds to me that the only thing that set Arthur off was Charlie.
I personally feel that he could have been a wonderful dog in a home with no other dogs. I don't remember you ever saying he was agressive to the other dogs or any people at all so I don't see how he could be "wired wrong". But who am I to say.
Please don't hate me for feeling like this, but you put this out for all to see and this is just what I see.
Yes, I'm sure it has alot to do with my love of rotties and just loosing our Angus, but I just can't help the way I feel.

Take it or leave it, but this is just my 2 cents.

[lbaker]

Don't worry about it A66. I have the same thoughts but right now I just don't see what good it will do (after the sad fact) to dwell on just who was the aggressor, or "who struck first". I would love to take a one dog only in. Hardly possible when I have six of my own, and five cats. Fortunatly for me they all get along (although there were some turf battles for awhile). I sincerely hope no one will slam you for speaking your mind. I certainly won't.

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by lbaker
I sincerely hope no one will slam you for speaking your mind. I certainly won't.

Me either :)

It is so hard to know what is the right decision and the "what ifs" of every possibilty. Obviously Charlie and Arthur living together would not work. It would be nice to think Arthur could have had a chance somewhere else. But then there is the possibly he would get away and hurt another dog or a child, and then there is the guilt knowing you could have prevented it. He obviuosly wanted to get to Charlie bad enough to get over that 5 ft wall.

I hate thinking of any dog being put down for any reason. But since we couldn't all be there is witness the attacks, we have to trust JC did what her heart told her was the right thing.

Anna, I totally understand your being defensive toward Rotties. I am the same way with dalmatians. I have had people tell me so many times how bad dals are with kids, and I look at my two (mixes) and how much they love kids, I just want to tell these pople they are nuts!

[lute]

OH,i'm so sorry heinz57_79! i don't think your a bad dog mom at all! i think you did what was best. Arther could have really hurt another dog, or you. it must be very stressful time. i'll kee you and charlie in my prayers.

please keep in mind you did what was best and may have prevented something worse.

[Tina]

I'm also sorry about Arthur.:(

But I have to agree with Anna's post sorry.:(

[RobiLee]

I have the same thoughts and feelings as Anna. I am not judging you. I was not there. This is just so hard to understand and I wish something else could have been done. My heart breaks for Arthur :(

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by lbaker
I sincerely hope no one will slam you for speaking your mind. I certainly won't.
Me also - especially when I have the same thoughts. But you don't need us to forgive you tho, I don't think. You have enough to deal with on your own. :(
gentle hugs to you're crew.

[Karen]

No one will slam anyone else for speaking his or her heart. We know that Rotties are great dogs, and that JC still has her Rottie girl to help her through this hard time.

Each one of us should hug (okay in my case, Hoppy's too small to hug, but ...) our pets and be glad they are okay.

We can all move forward from here, and be grateful to be part of a community that understands that animals are very special, and we all love them in our own ways.

[Kfamr]

I'm glad someone said it.

I agree with Anna completely and fully.
I'll never fathom why this sweetheart was put to death so young.


And I guess that's all i'll say.

[Amber]

I have to agree with Anna too...:(

[RottiMommy49]

I have done a lot of reading and soul searching since Arthur was put down. I have read every post several times. I have very mixed feelings about everything that has happened. Our first rotti was Nikita, we got her from the local shelter, she was roughly 2 years old at that time. Nikita hated other animals. She would try so hard to pull me on leash to get to another dog, it was embarrasing and going to the vets was worse when the waiting room was full. About 1 week after we adopted her I took her to a pet store. At this time I didn't know she was animal aggressive. The girl that worked there also had a rotti. She saw Nikita try to go after another dog that came in the store as well as a big stuffed dog that was sitting near the cash. Nikita tried so hard to kill that stuffed dog. The girl working abruptly told me that my dog should be destryed due to her aggression. I of course said I think not. She told me that if my dog ever went after hers she would kill my dog, that Nikita was not a good dog and i had better take her to the shelter and put her to sleep. At this point my blood pressure was rising quickly...this girl was getting on my nerves, she was one of those opinionated no it alls. I stopped going there!!
Now I knew we had a problem with our girl and we took every precaution to make sure she would never hurt anyones dog. She was an awesome rotti who loved us, our grandchildren, all people so very much. We knew as long as we had her we would not be able to get a second dog or any other animals but that was okay because we loved her so much and everything else about her was perfect. Had she been aggressive to my grandchildren or people my decision may have been different. Or I would have crated her when need be. She was our baby and the love of my life along with my kids, grandkids and hubby. She was family. Well we had her almost 6 years and during that time she never touched another animal. We just made sure she couldn't. I made sure I had complete control over her on walks because to let anything bad happen would have meant losing my baby. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I likely would not have had Arthur put down but would have tried other things like crating him until I could get profesional help with the aggression, working with him using positive training, or at worse finding a home without other dogs or dogs similar to the type he was aggressive towards. My dogs don't like small dogs but are great with other large breeds. Kiki will not accept another female in the house except for my sons dog. Knowing these things we just work with any issues as best as we can because no way in he** would I put either of my babies down. I guess my only real problem with Arthur being put to sleep is that maybe there was a different way to solve the existing problem. it's too late after the fact. I'm trying to not judge because I feel that is up to God not me. But I do have my own feelings and have expressed them.:(
I'm fairly new here and feel like an outsider still as so many of you have been together for such a long time. I don't want to offend anyone or make enemies here. I enjoy being a part of PT and hope to be here a long time making new friends. It's tough being a newbie in a tight group of people and I thank everyone who has made me feel welcomed here.:) I guess that's about all I have to say.

[Tonya]

Just a thought...

Even dogs that are not human aggressive have severely injured their beloved humans in the midst of a dog fight. Yes, a person could try their best to keep the dog from other dogs, but what if?

I wasn't there. I don't know Arthur, her, or the situation. I am just speaking in general.

I know that when my RB Rosco attacked that boy, there were so many thoughts running through my head. I had been working with him for quite a while and he'd been attack free for over a year when that happened. He tore down a tree and a chain in order to get the boy. THANK GOD that I was able to rip Rosco off of the boy in time. He was hurt, but not badly.

But to see a dog want something so badly that he gets superhuman strength is a very frightening thing. My adrenaline was going so fast and my heart was so broken, it was hard to think.

Maybe I could have done more, maybe Rosco could have changed. But what if I'd given Rosco another chance, and it was on that borrowed time that he killed someone? He loved me, but he was obviously wired wrong, what if he suddenly turned on me?

I am sure that Heinz has the same guilty thoughts and "what ifs" running through her head. That is a hell of a decision to make. I don't think that anyone should judge her until they've been in her shoes.

Just another comment...

I know that most of us would not stand by while a huge rottweiler was attacking our beloved furbaby. We'd get into the fight to save our pet. We would be injured too. I know no matter how much I preach to my son, he as a child, couldn't stand back while his dog got mauled. He'd step in and be injured. Just because a dog is only dog aggressive doesn't mean he isn't a threat to humans.

[RottiMommy49]

I know that most of us would not stand by while a huge rottweiler was attacking our beloved furbaby. We'd get into the fight to save our pet. We would be injured too. I know no matter how much I preach to my son, he as a child, couldn't stand back while his dog got mauled. He'd step in and be injured. Just because a dog is only dog aggressive doesn't mean he isn't a threat to humans

I'm sure none of us would stand by and see one of our babies hurt by any animal or human for that matter.I also would do whatever had to be done to stop one of my dogs from hurting a person or an animal. I also feel that we are all at risk of one of our dogs turning on us or someone else at any time. There are no guarantees that because so far we have been lucky enough to have loving, non agressive babies that they can't suddenly lose it and attack us, another animal or person. This is the risk we take when we own animals of all sizes and breeds. Yes bigger dogs can do more harm than smaller dogs and I know that so I take all the necessary precautions, watch their body language and in doing so I feel I am doing all I can to protect myself, family, friends, other peoples animals, etc. I feel I am a responsible pet owner and am always with my dogs when they are outside. All dogs have alert modes and if you know what to look for hopefully you can stop something before it gets out of control. I never take for granted that my dogs would not be capable of killing me or someone, something else but I try to read all I can about animal behavior and how they view us and our actions as humans. I pray that I never have to make the tough decision that heinz57 had to make.

[flamepony12]

((((HUGS)))) I do believe you did the right thing. I'm very sorry that it had to be so tough, though. :`( I hope Charlie feels better soon. Play hard at the Rainbow Bridge, sweet Arthur. :( (((((((((HUGS)))))))))

[ChrisH]

Originally posted by Tonya
.. That is a hell of a decision to make. I don't think that anyone should judge her until they've been in her shoes.
Well said!

Rest in Peace Arthur.

[NoahsMommy]

I agree Tonya. I don't know of anyone, except you, who's been there.

JC, I'm so sorry for this tragedy. I can only imagine how painful a decision that was for you. :(

Please take care.

[Karen]

I forgot to say before, you give Charley a kiss on the nose for me, okay?

[DJFyrewolf36]

I havent had a chance to post until now...

I would like to say how sorry I am about you having to make this dicsion. I know you did what you felt was best for the rest of your crew and Arthur.

:( this has been a really sad month for many people...

*Hugs* from me and the crew

[Twisterdog]

No one has any right to condemn or judge this decision. We do not live in this house, we do not deal with these dogs. This was not our decision, nor our responsibility.

I have euthanized two foster dogs in the past for aggression. I was the one who was responsible for these dogs, and I was the one who had to make and live with the decision. It was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do, but I had to do it. And I had to deal with it. The last thing I would have needed was some uninformed people telling me I was wrong from thousands of miles away, never having met these dogs.

People seem quick to criticize at times, and quick to offer pat advice with no background or knowledge of the sitution. What people never seem to do, however, is take action. No one ever says, "I will take that dog into my home for you, then, and I will deal with his aggresion, and I will place my pets and/or children at risk." No, we won't do that ... but we will place blame and find fault.

Judge not, lest you shall be judged.

[DogLover9501]

I just wanted to say that I agree that no one has the right to judge, as none of us were there and none of us experienced it, BUT I don't think anyone was questioning anything that JC did, I think they were just expressing opinions.

I know that this was a VERY difficult decision for JC to make and I'm sure she has already went through all the "what if"s in her mind, so we don't need to make it worse.

JC-I hope Charlie is feeling better and I hope you stick around.

[RottiMommy49]

JC And Bella please believe me I was not meaning to sound judgemental over what decision you made. I don't think anything I said today insinuated that and if so i apologize. I'm not a mean, uncarring person and I try not to judge what anyone does because as I said it's not my place to do so. Yes at first I sent you my deepest sympathies as did many others. It was after reading all the posts and thinking about everything the last few days that made me think was there another way? Only because of how you described what was happening with Arthur and Charlie when you asked for advice or help. This quote is from your reply post.


We're going to be keeping the boys completely separate for the next couple days, and Arthur will be never be fed outside of his crate ever again. Charlie's looking sore, and more bedraggled than usual, and Arthur's all stiff and sore too. sigh... Arthur isn't aggressive in any other way. He's great with the kittens, Anna, Chloe, Bella and myself. And he's usually good with Charlie too, until the butthead goes after his food.
So yes it was upsetting to me that he was gone. It didn't sound so bad being as it was a food issue with Charlie and he wasn't agressive at any other time. I had hoped things would get worked out.

Now I'm really upset since you posted this today.



His aggression was no longer limited to just Charlie and his food. I could no longer take his chewies away without him going for me. NO ONE could walk near him, regardless of whether he had a chewie or not. We talked to a behaviorist. And again. And again. And again. When we did what we did, even she agreed it was for the best.


You hadn't posted that he had become agressive towards you and Bella when you posted ( He's Gone ) All I knew was that Charlie was stealing Arthurs food and that was causing Arthur to become agressive towars Charlie. No mention of any other agressiveness at that time. Not until you posted today was that brought up. That being the case we did not have all the information we have now. I still don't think the majority of people judged you but rather displayed upset over what Arthur, you, Bella& Charlie had been through. I'm certain that if everyone had known that Arthur was agressive to you and Bella some things would not have been said today. I'm very sorry for all the pain you are in over this terrible mess and the loss of your Arthur. God Bless and help you heal. Rest In Peace Arthur.:( I hope you find my Nikita....please give her kisses for me.

[cyber-sibes]

:( So sory to read about the whole situation. Your heart must be aching terribly - I hope I never have to make a decision like that. My friend had to, though, when her male akita turned on her female akita and nearly killed her (after living together for many years!) My friend also made the choice you did and immediately put her dog down, not wanting to risk his aggression worsening.
As many have said, we weren't there in your shoes.
To me, it seems like you did try, you did work with a behaviorist - and you made a sane and mature decision based on the situation. I hope Charlie heals quickly. Prayers & light coming your way ---

[CountryWolf07]

Originally posted by ChrisH
Well said!

Rest in Peace Arthur.

Same here.. I agree..

I don't understand this -- seems like something is said, and most of the time, it's bashing.. let it go, please.. all you're doing is making her heart more ripped apart..

[Tonya]

Unless one is fortunate enough to find a home with a handler that is experienced with rehabilitating aggressive dogs, I am strongly against rehoming an aggressive dog. I think it is morally wrong to hand over a knowingly aggressive dog to another inexperienced person and expect them to deal with it. People and animals die that way.

[delidog]

I Strongly feel that this person did what She had to do in Her situation....Every situation is Different...

But Again...I am not here to Judge...
Just Know that My Heart goes out to you at this difficult time...
And I hope that Charley is better soon!!!

The only thing that I will say...is No Judgement at All...

Just a Warning...STAY AWAY FromBackyard Breeders!!!
9 out of 10 Dogs with "Bad Wiring" are a result of years of cross and inbreeding ...to "Strengthen The Lineage!!!"
By Breeders who have Not a Clue what They Are Breeding!!
We have seen it over the Years in So Many Breeds!!!
Dobermans
Rottweilers
German Shepards
Dalmations
Pit Bulls
Great Danes
Yes,Even Cocker Spaniels!!!!
After Their Hips,Eyes and Every other part of their Physical is bred damaged,Then Goes their Mind!!!


R.I.P. Sweet Arthur....
You Probably Did Not Understand what was happening to you yourself...
Arthur Already Knows how much You Loved Him...He has Already forgiven you...
Play Hard at The Bridge Sweet Arthur!!!

[swimma253]

I am so sorry. :( RIP sweet arthur. Play hard at the bridge.

Carly

[slleipnir]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I'm glad someone said it.

I agree with Anna completely and fully.
I'll never fathom why this sweetheart was put to death so young.


And I guess that's all i'll say.

I was thinking the same...

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
No one has any right to condemn or judge this decision. We do not live in this house, we do not deal with these dogs. This was not our decision, nor our responsibility.

I have euthanized two foster dogs in the past for aggression. I was the one who was responsible for these dogs, and I was the one who had to make and live with the decision. It was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do, but I had to do it. And I had to deal with it. The last thing I would have needed was some uninformed people telling me I was wrong from thousands of miles away, never having met these dogs.

People seem quick to criticize at times, and quick to offer pat advice with no background or knowledge of the sitution. What people never seem to do, however, is take action. No one ever says, "I will take that dog into my home for you, then, and I will deal with his aggresion, and I will place my pets and/or children at risk." No, we won't do that ... but we will place blame and find fault.

Judge not, lest you shall be judged. Well said, on all points.

I haven't been around much and missed this whole thing until reading the locked thread and now this one. I have to admit, I was absolutely shocked that people would have the audacity to comment on a situation that had absolutely nothing to do with them! If I were ever unforunate enough to have to deal with a similar situation, as Twisterdog said above, the last thing I'd want were some uninformed people telling me I was wrong from thousands of miles away, never having met these dogs... OR me.

JC's been a member here for quite awhile. You all probably know her better than I do, but even I can tell you that she loved her kids and I know she did everything possible to keep from putting Arthur down. She's one of us. She was faced with a horrible situation and she handled it in the best interest of herself, Bella, and their other dogs. It is really sad that Arthur had to be put down but to me, JC's actions were a hell of a lot more responsible than putting her safety, Bella's safety, and the other dogs' safety at risk OR trying to rehome an already-known aggressive dog.

JC, I'm sorry you had to deal with I know was one of the most difficult decisions you will ever have to make... and then to come here seeking support and deal with strangers questioning such a personal and sad choice - what a slap in the face. My thoughts and prayers are with you and Bella.

[lizbud]

The closed thread that I responded to expressed my confusion
about the dramatic shift in Arthur's behavior from when he was
discribed as a "weenie" and a "peacemaker" in the group to a
dog acting with full fledged aggression against both people and
other dogs. An 8 month old pup ? What the heck happened?

I didn't understand, and still don't, but another thread last Aug.
now seems prophetic. http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55175&highlight=charlie

I will not post on this subject again ever. It makes me literally
sick at heart.:( Rest In Peace Arthur. :(

[RottiMommy49]

No one ever says, "I will take that dog into my home for you, then, and I will deal with his aggresion,

I'm sorry but you are jumping to conclusions here. I'm sure had it been posted that a new home was needed for Arthur than people with experience with Rotti's and aggression would have taken him. I can tell you that we would have taken him in a heartbeat. All our dogs are rescued dogs, all came with baggage and different behavioral problems that I have been able to correct. We all live in harmony here, even when I have a foster dog. So far as judging, your post was judging everyone who took part in the replies. I just wanted to point that out!
Nobody was trying to add salt to open wounds, people were just shocked, upset, sad, etc., human nature. Speaking for myself I really don't believe I was judging and said so in my posts. It's not anyones place to judge another person unless you are God.
I'm not saying anymore about this. Look at posts and quotes from JC. Seems Charlie was the problem from the get go to me.
I still send good wishes to JC and bella and have no hard feeling towards anyone on PT. I have loved it here and still do and hope to be here for many years to come.

Sending my love and hugs to everyone.
:)

[dukedogsmom]

Originally posted by lizbud
The closed thread that I responded to expressed my confusion
about the dramatic shift in Arthur's behavior from when he was
discribed as a "weenie" and a "peacemaker" in the group to a
dog acting with full fledged aggression against both people and
other dogs. An 8 month old pup ? What the heck happened?

I didn't understand, and still don't, but another thread last Aug.
now seems prophetic. http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55175&highlight=charlie

I will not post on this subject again ever. It makes me literally
sick at heart.:( Rest In Peace Arthur. :(

I now feel sick to my stomach. I hadn't seen that thread. So very sad. Thanks for posting that, lizbud.

[Karen]

It is very sad, and we are sure JC is as heartsick as anyone about the whole thing. She, Bella and Charlie will be in my prayers, and I hope yours, for a long time.

Let the healing begin. Let this rest.

Rest in peace Arthur.

[Tonya]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
No one ever says, "I will take that dog into my home for you, then, and I will deal with his aggresion, and I will place my pets and/or children at risk." No, we won't do that ... but we will place blame and find fault.




Originally posted by RottiMommy49
I'm sorry but you are jumping to conclusions here. I'm sure had it been posted that a new home was needed for Arthur than people with experience with Rotti's and aggression would have taken him. I can tell you that we would have taken him in a heartbeat. All our dogs are rescued dogs, all came with baggage and different behavioral problems that I have been able to correct. We all live in harmony here, even when I have a foster dog. So far as judging, your post was judging everyone who took part in the replies. I just wanted to point that out!
Nobody was trying to add salt to open wounds, people were just shocked, upset, sad, etc., human nature. Speaking for myself I really don't believe I was judging and said so in my posts. It's not anyones place to judge another person unless you are God.
I'm not saying anymore about this. Look at posts and quotes from JC. Seems Charlie was the problem from the get go to me.
I still send good wishes to JC and bella and have no hard feeling towards anyone on PT. I have loved it here and still do and hope to be here for many years to come.

Sending my love and hugs to everyone.
:)

There was an old dog named Speedy dropped on my lap this summer. I could not keep him, I could not find a home for him, and his health was failing. After calling many rescues, I asked PT for help rehoming him. No one could take him for me. Which at first was fine to me, I understood, I couldn't have him either. But once I put him to sleep, several people started talking about me behind my back. So I can vouch for that one...she's not jumping to conclusions.

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by RottiMommy49
I'm sorry but you are jumping to conclusions here. I'm sure had it been posted that a new home was needed for Arthur than people with experience with Rotti's and aggression would have taken him. I can tell you that we would have taken him in a heartbeat. All our dogs are rescued dogs, all came with baggage and different behavioral problems that I have been able to correct. We all live in harmony here, even when I have a foster dog. So far as judging, your post was judging everyone who took part in the replies. I just wanted to point that out!
Nobody was trying to add salt to open wounds, people were just shocked, upset, sad, etc., human nature. Speaking for myself I really don't believe I was judging and said so in my posts. It's not anyones place to judge another person unless you are God.
I'm not saying anymore about this. Look at posts and quotes from JC. Seems Charlie was the problem from the get go to me.
I still send good wishes to JC and bella and have no hard feeling towards anyone on PT. I have loved it here and still do and hope to be here for many years to come.

Sending my love and hugs to everyone.
:)

No, I'm not jumping to conclusions. I have done rescue for well over a decade, and worked with humane societies for almost two decades. I have plenty of experience to base my statements on.

It is very, very rare indeed that a known aggresive dog can be place, period. And, as Tonya said so eloquently, it is morally and ethically wrong to place an known aggresive dog with anyone other than a very experienced breed-specific rescue.

I tried for two years to place my two aggresive fosters with such a rescue ... someone who had more time, knowledge and experience than I did with the breeds and aggresion. I had no offers. I saw the same thing time and time and time again working at three different shelters in three different states. I am not jumping to conclusions ... I am speaking from almost twenty years of hard experience.

If you would have taken this dog, and you are qualified to do so, then kudos to you. You are indeed the very rare exception to the rule. However, in probably 99% of the cases, an aggresive dog cannot be placed, period.

[Cataholic]

I am so sorry you had to make such a difficult decision. Please know that I stand behind your decision 100%. I know it pained you to make it, and to read these comments must make you about break down. I am sorry for your double pain.

Hugs to you. RIP, Arthur, you are missed.

[sammy101]

i really wished that this didnt become such a big discussion,i cant imagine how JC must be feeling about this,everyone talking about what happened to her little boy.:(

again we miss you Arthur:(

[catnapper]

JC, I am truly, deepkly sorry that you had to make such a tough decision. May he be happy at the RB.

Everyone else: shame on you! Unless you have had to make a decision based on equal situations and circumstances, you are not to judge or berate JC for her decision! JC needs compassion and consideration right now - not out and out agression and venomous words.

Someday one of you will be faced with the same decision... remember that as you judge her. We are not here to judge others. We can only judge ourselves.

[My Peanuts]

Originally posted by catnapper
Everyone else: shame on you! Unless you have had to make a decision based on equal situations and circumstances, you are not to judge or berate JC for her decision! JC needs compassion and consideration right now - not out and out agression and venomous words.


I agree, but I would go one further. Unless you were standing behind her and saw what was happening first hand, then I don't think she should be judged.

[Jods]

I'm sorry to hear about Arthur, my heart aches for you. :(

[catlady1945]

I am so sorry. I am sure you did what was the right thing to do. Best wishes to Charlie for a speedy recovery.

[QueenScoopalot]

I've been reading this thread for a while, and my heart goes out to you for what I know had to have been a really hard decision to have to make. My tiny chihuahua cross (weighs 5lbs soaking wet) got badly attacked by our biggest dog Greta (125lbs) a few months ago. Peanut's eye was popped from the socket, and her jaw was dislocated, but she did recover. Peanut was the instigater in the whole attack, and I now keep her crated when I'm not there to watch.With Greta it was no doubt a corrective nip, but being huge, she doesn't realize her jaw size! Greta is elderly, and a gentle dog, whereas Arthur was already starting to have aggression problems. Sometimes no matter what we do, things can erupt so quickly. Hope things calm down in your home, and that Charlie heals from his wounds.

[wolf_Q]

Rest in peace, Arthur. :(

I have one question and I will say no more. Were both male dogs neutered?

[Miranda_Rae]

I am SO sorry about what has happened, and I am sorry that you had to put your dear baby down. :( I understand, and I agree that it was the best thing to do for him and for your other pets and for the people involved. I am also sorry for the way you have been treated on PT when you came here for support and comfort but instead you got angry words and belittling, and for that I am truely sorry. :(

With that said, I would just like to say this. I have been reading this thread for awhile, debating wheather or not I should post, and I decided I would. People who aren't standing there, seeing the situation first hand, or aren't INVOLVED in the situation start critizicing without considering peoples feelings or the fact that it has weighed heavily on them, and they did what they thought best. This is EXACTLY one of the reasons that I debated for 2 years wheather or not to join PT. I was afraid, that if I worded something wrong, or said something, or did something wrong I would some nasty replies and some nasty PMs. This is one of the reasons I quite reading PT for awhile and decided to never go back to this website, but after months of not having anything to do with PT, I decided to come back and read things, and it seemed that things had cooled down and people had starting acting civil to each other so I decided to join, but maybe I was wrong. I don't understand what the point is debating wheather or not she should have put Arthur to sleep when there is nothing that can be done or when other people have no control over the situation. i am sorry for going off into a little rampage, but it bothered me and I thought I would say something. Not only are you hurting JC, but you may also be chasing away potentential members of Pet Talk. I do not want people to feel that I am singling anyone out because of their post, but I just feel like I had to say this. There are people who said they didn't agree with it, and they said it nicely, but then there are others that didn't.

[Twisterdog]

THIS is exactly why I have learned to not come to PT for comfort/advice etc, because you never know what you will get. You could be hurting so much you wish you were dead, and then you turn to a place where you thought you could go for comfort, and you get mean and hateful remarks.

That's a terribly sad statement. And what makes it even more sad, is that it is absolutely true.

When I have a cute picture or a funny story once in a while, I'll start a thread here. But honestly, I would NEVER come here with a problem or an issue, because I KNOW it would turn into just another "jump on the criticism bandwagon" fiasco. And I know for a fact that Miranda_Rae and I are NOT the only ones who feel this way ... not by a LONG shot.

[PJ's Mom]

And I know for a fact that Miranda_Rae and I are NOT the only ones who feel this way ... not by a LONG shot.

You're not. I pretty much quit posting here all together. It was causing more stress than it was relieving. :rolleyes: Rottie doesn't even come in here anymore for some of the same reasons, and I used to have to pry her away from this site. :(

[Tonya]

Originally posted by PJ's Mom
You're not. I pretty much quit posting here all together. It was causing more stress than it was relieving. :rolleyes: Rottie doesn't even come in here anymore for some of the same reasons, and I used to have to pry her away from this site. :(

Same here...

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by Tonya
Same here...
You don't come here very much anymore?:confused:
With over 10 posts per day?
I am only at just over 4 posts a day and have been here for 4 years.
:confused: :confused:

[bckrazy]

Originally posted by shais_mom
You don't come here very much anymore?:confused:
With over 10 posts per day?
I am only at just over 4 posts a day and have been here for 4 years.
:confused: :confused:

actually, I think the post per day is just averaged by how long you've been a member and how many total posts you have. don't mean to get into this, I just noticed that ;)