Something's changed - help!

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

As most of you know, Tubby and Peanut have never been best of buddies where they sleep together all curled up and such. It's been more like they tolerate each other and basically ignore each other except for the occassional chase through the house. The only time they've ever seriously gotten into it with each other is when this one nasty neighborhood cat comes around and sits right outside the window and taunts them until they attack each other because they can't get to it. Then there is screaching and literally fur flying.

So, what's happened in about the past month or so is that Tubby has started sniffing/attacking poor Peanut. She'll be sitting all by herself, minding her own business, and he'll go up and start sniffing at her. Well, she doesn't like this so she'll swat at him, he doesn't like that and the next thing you know the fur is flying. Or one day Peanut was in the kitchen by herself. The rest of us, including Tubby, came out of the garage and Tubby just went right up to her and attacked her! I wasn't at all happy so being the bad mommie that I am, I spanked him and followed him around telling him he was a bad boy. He knows when he does something wrong, and he knew then that I wasn't happy. Well, he left Peanut alone for a whole 24 hours, then the sniffing started up again. It's like she can't do anything without him following her and sniffing and attacking her. He's never been like this before, and poor Peanut has licked the back of her front legs clean, the back of her back legs clean, and I noticed about 2 days ago that half her tummy is bare now too! She does this licking when she's under stress and has done the legs in the past, but has never done her tummy like this.

So, I'm wondering who to take to the vet? I just recently took Tubby and they said everything was fine and he was doing really good with his kidney problems. It's been almost a year since I took Peanut, but the vet said she was perfect then and there was no reason to bring her back unless she got sick or something. So I'm wondering....I know it's been mentioned here that if a cat has diabetes it will have a smell to it. I can't smell anything, but is it possible that something has changed with her that is giving off a real slight odor and that is why Tubby is always sniffing at her? She is acting completely normal except for a new habit of cowering when Tubby starts walking towards her (which I really dislike). She eats, sleeps, goes to the bathroom, everything just like normal. Is there some way other than spanking Tubby to get across to him the idea that he has to leave her alone again? Is Tubby just turning into a cranky old man? Or is something bothering Tubby and he's taking it out on Peanut, and if so what is his problem????? Do I need a kitty psychiatrist or a vet? I've got the feeling that if I take either one to the vet they're going to tell me they are just as healthy as can be so I'm really at a total loss as to what to do. But I really need to do something before Peanut is completely bald!

Any and all suggestions will be helpful, so please let me know anything you can think of, and thanks so much in advance!

[jennifert]

Oh dear, I really don't know much about cats as I haven't had one since I was a child but as soon as I started reading your post, I thought to myself, "something may be wrong with Peanut" Of course, I'm far from an expert and I pray that I'm wrong. From somewhere in the depths of my mind, I feel like I've heard of this behavior in cats when one is ill.

Again I hope I'm wrong. Perhaps I should just keep my big mouth shut but this struck a chord somewhere and I....
Anyway...let's see what others have to say....

[yorkster]

First of all: no spanking! That will not help, and probably just make the situation worse. Try a water squirt-bottle. That works well for me.

From what you have described, it really does not sound like Tubby is doing anything all that bad. Mostly he just sniffs at her, and then she reacts, then sometimes a fight breaks out? It sounds pretty 50-50 to me, if not even a bit more her.

I can understand that you would be upset when he just attacks her for no apparent reason.........that;s not good. But it sounds like it mostly starts with sniffing and has gone from there.

I would definately take both of them to the vet to find out IF there is anything going-on medically. Maybe you are right about her smelling funny because she is sick. She may also be less tolorant of him if she feels bad.

If this is something that is fairly new behavior, then it's likely that something is going on with Peanut, and Tubby is just being curious/concerned, etc.

I don't remember how old both your kittys are, so there could be an age thing involved too. I have a 8 yr. old cat, and a 1 yr. old. There are times whe the older kitty gets REALLY annoyed with the younger one, because he wants to play, play, play. They then get into it, but that is pretty normal cat stuff.

[wolflady]

T&P's mom, that's a tough one!! The drawbacks to these kinds of things is there can be so many reasons that could have started this behavior.
I would probably bring both of them to the vet for a check-up just to be sure and to rule out anything medical. I do think poor Peanut is stressed which is causing her to pull out her belly fur. One of my friend's cats did this when she was stressed.
The behavior of Tubby attacking Peanut sounds like a similar scenario I had between Scooter and Sam (a siamese cat I had in college). Sam would just attack Scooter for no reason, and it really stressed him out.
Has anything changed in your household at all (anything...no matter how small)?? Is Tubby trying to express his 'Top cat' status over Peanut? It almost does seem to me that he is displacing his frustrations on Peanut for some reason. Is there something frustrating him?
Depending on what the vet says medically, I would try to desensitize Tubby from Peanut. Using a squirt bottle is a good idea to get him to stop unwanted behaviors. Maybe keep the two separated for awhile, and only have them together under supervision. Reward Tubby for good behaviors (ie leaving Peanut alone), so he will associate the pleasant things with Peanut being in the room.
I do get the feeling that something is frustrating Tubby, and Peanut is his target for letting out these frustrations. If possible, find out what is bothering him and elimate the problem. Are there neighborhood cats that wander in the yard? Is there a visiting squirrel that he can't get at?? Observe him and let us know what happens!! Very curious indeed!
**hugs**

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by yorkster
First of all: no spanking! That will not help, and probably just make the situation worse. Try a water squirt-bottle. That works well for me.

I was thinking the same thing about the spanking, but was so frustrated at the time that I couldn't help myself. A squirt bottle is a great idea and will be tested out tonight.

I can understand that you would be upset when he just attacks her for no apparent reason.........that;s not good. But it sounds like it mostly starts with sniffing and has gone from there.

That's the way it seems and that's what made me think maybe there was something wrong with Peanut because Tubby never used to sniff at her like this before. And I know the sniffing starts it at least 1/2 the time. The other times it's because Tubby either just out and out attacks her or he stalks her and won't leave her alone (which he never used to do).

She may also be less tolorant of him if she feels bad.

I thought of that too. and then I also thought that maybe Tubby is feeling better than he has in a long time and he wants to play, or maybe, after all these years, he wants to snuggle with her and she wants nothing to do with it.

If this is something that is fairly new behavior, then it's likely that something is going on with Peanut, and Tubby is just being curious/concerned, etc.

You said it better than I could, yorkster. This was my first thought that Peanut had something wrong with her and Tubby was worried about her.

[QUOTE]I don't remember how old both your kittys are, so there could be an age thing involved too. I have a 8 yr. old cat, and a 1 yr. old. There are times whe the older kitty gets REALLY annoyed with the younger one, because he wants to play, play, play. They then get into it, but that is pretty normal cat stuff. /QUOTE]
I guess I ruled out the age thing because they've been together for so long. Tubby is about to turn 16 and Peanut will turn 14 a little later this spring. They've been together for more than 13 years now, with nothing of this sort of behavior ever in existence and that's why I'm so confused about it.

I do believe Peanut will be making a trip to the vet this weekend. I had already mentioned that to Terry and he thought I was goofy because she's acting so normal otherwise. But I know kitties can hide things very well, so I'm going to take her in just because something has to be done.

Thanks yorkster for your suggestions.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by wolflady
Has anything changed in your household at all (anything...no matter how small)??

I've tried to think of anything, no matter how small, and the only thing that really changed is we bought a motorhome that we can't store at our house so maybe we're gone a little bit more, but that's not unusual, really. And Tubby has always been good about change and it never really bothered him much (I've moved a lot since I first got him) Oh, maybe that's the problem. Maybe he's telling me it's time to move again!

Is Tubby trying to express his 'Top cat' status over Peanut?

I've thought of that because Tubby has always been top cat, and when he wasn't feeling good, it did seem like Peanut was starting to take over. But then I started giving him his medicine and he started feeling better and I thought everything was back to normal.

It almost does seem to me that he is displacing his frustrations on Peanut for some reason. Is there something frustrating him?

I wish I knew!!! The outside cats haven't come around lately, especially the nasty one, so I kind of ruled that out. There was a bunny right out the window the other day (which reminds me that I took pictures for everybody here) but I can't see as how a bunny would frustrate Tubby, especially since they've really come and gone over the years, without Tubby acting like this.

Depending on what the vet says medically, I would try to desensitize Tubby from Peanut. Using a squirt bottle is a good idea to get him to stop unwanted behaviors. Maybe keep the two separated for awhile, and only have them together under supervision.

I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all or anything like that, but I thought of that too. Separating them would be kind of hard, but could be done....if me and their daddy could handle it. They've been together and had each other around for so many years that I would feel terrible if I had to separate them. I think they would really miss each other, but maybe that's what Tubby needs so he can appreciate his little sister.

Reward Tubby for good behaviors (ie leaving Peanut alone), so he will associate the pleasant things with Peanut being in the room.

Tried that, but will keep doing it because I know positive reinforcement is much more powerful than negative. I felt so guilty after I spanked him that I felt it was a good thing I never had kids because I'd never be able to discipline them.

I do get the feeling that something is frustrating Tubby, and Peanut is his target for letting out these frustrations. If possible, find out what is bothering him and elimate the problem. Are there neighborhood cats that wander in the yard? Is there a visiting squirrel that he can't get at?? Observe him and let us know what happens!! Very curious indeed!
**hugs** [/B]

Thanks for all the suggestions Karen. For me it was a toss up between something wrong with Peanut and something frustrating Tubby. I still think I'm going to start with taking Peanut to the vet even though that will be the most stressful for her and her daddy. But it's better to have a little stress now than a whole lotta stress later when we find out something is seriously wrong with either one of them.

Thanks for the hugs too. I've needed them lately with all this going on.

[wayne0214]

T&P Mom, Since tubby is sniffing Peanut before this behavior begins, it could be that Peanut is excreting a slightly different odor that Tubby associates with another cat. I know that cats often identify other cats by smell and not by sight. And since both of them are getting up in cat years, there may be a "lapse" of memory with Tubby, so that he doesn't remember Peanut's smell. You might try changing their diet. Or perhaps this is something that you have recently done and it is changing their behavior by changing their scent. Just a few thoughts from a cat-owner novice.

..........wayne

[yorkster]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
[B]
I guess I ruled out the age thing because they've been together for so long. Tubby is about to turn 16 and Peanut will turn 14 a little later this spring. They've been together for more than 13 years now, with nothing of this sort of behavior ever in existence and that's why I'm so confused about it.


Wow, T&P'sMom. Your kitties are 16 and 14? If they have been together all these years with no prblems going on like this before, there must SOMETHING that is causing the behavior.
I just get the feeling more and more that maybe Peanut is not feeling good for some reason.

Maybe this is a good thing that your kitties are acting strangley with each other, because otherwise you would not know Peanut might be sick (since she is otherwise acting normal) That is one way to look at it anyway. My Liza (RB) had kidney cancer, and I had no idea she was sick until it was too late because she was always a quiet kitty that kept to herself most of the time.

Tubby & Peanut being togther for so many years, there must be a pretty strong bond there, even if they weren't super close with each other.

Wayne brought up a good point too about the smell. I know when Kedi came back from the vet a couple months ago, Wylie was actually kind of MAD at him! I found out later it was because he smelled 'funny' to Wylie- he did not know it was his brother (and these 2 boys are super lovey with each other).
I remember getting upset with Wylie too because he was actually mean to Kedi, and I had just brought him home after heart problems, and the vet had said "keep him calm and don't let him get stressed or upset."

Well, I've gone on alot here.
Good luck at the vet, and keep us posted!

[Nomilynn]

Wow.. this sounds like a very stressful situation! As for the smell thing, I have read that if you spray a bit of perfume or something like that on both cats, they will smell like each other and therefore associate with each other better. That might be one option.

But like many have said already, it seems strange that this is a "sudden" thing. I think going to the vet is a great idea, especially, like you said, because cats don't let it be known that they are sick until they are REALLY sick.

Also, senior cats do go a bit "loopy." They do tend to forget things. For example, my parent's 17 year old seems to forget where he is, and goes into the kitchen and howls until someone calls his name and kind of "reminds" him he is where he is supposed to be. It could be that Tubby is just a bit of a grumpy old man

Another thing you might try (depending on how you feel about this) is an anti-depressant used for inter-cat agression. I had Bassett on an AD because she was peeing where she shouldn't, but the vet also said that it was used to stop aggression between cats. It's called Apo-Amitriptyline. You might ask your vet about it, depending on whether everyone is healthy and stuff.

Regardless, please let us all know how things work out. We are all hoping and praying for a solution here!

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

OHHHH Debbie,,,,,,,,
I missed this post untill just now........
Sorry I have no advice but I am sending hugs your way!!!!!!
Keep us posted on how everyone is doing and please ....
***GIVE TUBBY AND PEANUT A BIIIIIG BEAR HUG FOR ME **
Good luck...........

[Randi]

I'm afraid I can't give any advice on this, but I really hope the situation will brighten!!!

A big hug and purrs to you!

Fister & his mum

[purrley]

I believe that smells and the age of the cats is the key factor here and definately Peanut is very stressed out. The only thing I can think of is to separate them temporarily and see if anything improves. If Peanut continues to lick herself raw then you'll have to think of something else. I would call a vet and ask for their advice and by all means NEVER, NEVER hit a cat!!! It will only make him afraid of YOU not alter the behavior.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Thanks everyone, for all the advice and words of encouragement. Tubby was good last night, until about 2:00 am, then he started stalking Peanut again - while I'm trying to sleep. It's kind of hard trying to protect her while I'm trying to get some sleep too. I thought I had a squirt bottle at home, but turns out I don't so I couldn't test that out.

Anyway, I have an appointment on Saturday for Peanut. When I called, the vets were all with patients and the girl on the phone sounded rushed, so I figured I would just wait and tell them the whole story when I get there.

Nomilyn wrote "Also, senior cats do go a bit "loopy." They do tend to forget things. For example, my parent's 17 year old seems to forget where he is, and goes into the kitchen and howls until someone calls his name and kind of "reminds" him he is where he is supposed to be. It could be that Tubby is just a bit of a grumpy old man"

Tubby does that same thing where he yowls like he's lost, then as soon as I call him he comes running. Is it possible Tubby has a kitty form of Alzheimers? Kind of makes me laugh because it would explain alot of his behaviour lately, but then again it's not funny either. Terry's dad has Alzheimers and it's really a sad thing.

Well, first things first and that's taking Peanut to the vet on Saturday, so I'll let you all know what the results are.

Thanks again for all the support. It really helps.

[krazyaboutkatz]

I didn't get to read this post until now. I don't have any advice but I sure hope that there is nothing wrong with Peanut or Tubby. Hopefully the vet will be able to tell you what might be causing this. Good luck. Please keep us posted.

[Gio]

Can't offer much advice I'm afraid since nothing like this happened with mine. They have the odd fight (the two females are not overly keen on each other) but nothing serious at all.

Hope you can solve this soon.