Politics and religion.

[Grace]

I think this is interesting - wonder what will happen when the event happens?

Momentum builds for bipartisan State of the Union seating

[Grace]

Arizona shooting victim arrested

I think this is the same guy who went to the home of the shooter's parents the day he got out of the hospital. He didn't see them though.

[blue]

I just had the privilege of spending a couple of hours listening to a USMC Gunny, and twins who served in the Army during Viet Nam. I believe those three men have more spine then all of the lefties on this forum.

[Karen]

Blue, what do you have against people just because their politics differ from yours? Just because you consider someone "left wing" does not mean they are any less of a human being with rights opinions and strength. There are people from either "left" or "right" and no political parties in the military who put their lives on the line to defend our country.

[blue]

Blue, what do you have against people just because their politics differ from yours? Just because you consider someone "left wing" does not mean they are any less of a human being with rights opinions and strength. There are people from either "left" or "right" and no political parties in the military who put their lives on the line to defend our country.

I have nothing against people who have political leanings that differ from mine. My best friend is an Obama loving sycophant.

I am considered a right wing hate monger among my punk rock friends. They still like me though.

[Karen]

Then why do you say "those three men have more spine then all of the lefties on this forum."

[blue]

Then why do you say "those three men have more spine then all of the lefties on this forum."

Because its true.

Those three men will fight for your Right to be wrong.

[Karen]

Because its true.

Just because you believe it to be true, does not mean it is.

[SinbadsMom]

Ive cant say that Ive been happier to be wrong, but I am happy to be wrong. The A$$hat AZ shooter was not a Rooftop voter but a complete and total left leaning loon.

He's mentally ill, but not "left leaning." Neither his infamous books list (which includes Libertarian/Tea Party idol Ayn Rand and is all over the ideological map) nor his weird rants suggest that he's either left or right, and while some themes he hit on again and again in his rants (the anti-government, gold-standard themes) would sound rightwing to most (they're definitely not leftwing themes), some of the links below show those rants plus his obsession with grammar point more toward influence by an ideology that some would call far-right but others would say is so extreme it's outside the standard political spectrum.

http://www.salon.com/books/laura_mil...ist/index.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us...agewanted=2&hp

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...d-lee-loughner

http://blogs.forbes.com/janetnovack/...tizen-beliefs/

This is the Wikipedia article on the extremist whose ideas on grammar and government mind control Loughner seemed to be parroting. It says there that Miller is appalled by Loughner's actions and doesn't think his work inspired the shootings, but he does admit he thinks Loughner had been on his website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wynn_Miller


My thoughts and prayers are with Loughner's victims, their families and friends, their community, and our entire nation.

And I do think we need to tone down the political rhetoric in this country, especially the more violent talk. Whatever the political leanings of an unstable individual, constant talk of violence -- and especially self-righteous justifications of violence or suggestions that there's anything heroic about violence -- do make it more likely that unstable individuals will become violent. The over-the-top rhetoric can make people sound foolish, too, to everyone whose views don't exactly mesh with theirs. We need more open-mindedness and less ideology. More listening and less rhetoric.

And I'd hope pet lovers would understand this. After all, we know what constant exposure to displays of violence, threats of violence, verbal intimidation and so on can do to pets. They affect people as well.

[RICHARD]

YEars ago I was on a jury and the case involved a guy who wasn't left, right, middle or independent.

He was an effing loon, who lived w/his parents.

Both parents had problems with this idiot and the reason the case went to court was that the dad took a gun away from the son-barely adult- put it into the trunk of a car, then took the keys to the trunk of the car and put them BACK ON THE HOOK IN THE KICHEN.

The son took the keys from the hook, took out the gun and threatened the parents.

-------------------

The parents called the cops and the son was arrested, The Rub?

If we came back with a 'guilty', there would have been incarceration and a mental eval.

The parents wanted him to go to jail to get help, because as an adult, he had to choice of getting help or not.

The case was based on his threatening the parents, the defense was all about the parents using reasonable care in securing the gun.

--------------

Because I am not a parent, my opinions isn't worth shiat, so...


Many of these things happen because parents will not or cannot get involved with their kids and their lives.

Especially when they live at home and have an inkling about who they are and how they are acting in and out of the house.


NOT blaming the parents, but have to wonder how much they did know and how they approached the subject.

Eight days after the shooting we STILL ARE TRYING TO BLAME SOMEONE OR SOMETHING for the event.


Stop.

Instead of looking into the mirror, we still point fingers at everyone bur ourselves. I do not mean each of us personally, but the morons who take the lead and start spewing blame and stirring up the crap.


Take a listen at any news outlet and instead of moving on to how an idiot can get a gun and massacre people?

We sit on our couches and try to figure out if it's a pill popping radio host, an moronic, sophmoric knucklehead that wishes us "good luck' at the end of his program, or the pot head on HBO that uses bad humor as 'real opinion'.


Here's the deal.

Bad shiat happens and when we cannot get over blaming each other WHY it happens, it will go on and on.


Nothing will change, sadly, this will happen again and we will all stop for a second and start fingerpointing all over again.


Guns do not kill people, bullets do.
Unless you are unfortunate enough to get pistolwhipped about the skull..

[blue]

His book list included Lefty favorites like Animal Farm, Mein Kampf, and The Communist Manifesto. He was also a heavy pot smoker, a liberal past time. He also acted out what many lefties had published over the last decade, a violent outburst.

Hence he is a left leaning loon.

He's mentally ill, but not "left leaning." Neither his infamous books list (which includes Libertarian/Tea Party idol Ayn Rand and is all over the ideological map) nor his weird rants suggest that he's either left or right, and while some themes he hit on again and again in his rants (the anti-government, gold-standard themes) would sound rightwing to most (they're definitely not leftwing themes), some of the links below show those rants plus his obsession with grammar point more toward influence by an ideology that some would call far-right but others would say is so extreme it's outside the standard political spectrum.

http://www.salon.com/books/laura_mil...ist/index.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us...agewanted=2&hp

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...d-lee-loughner

http://blogs.forbes.com/janetnovack/...tizen-beliefs/

This is the Wikipedia article on the extremist whose ideas on grammar and government mind control Loughner seemed to be parroting. It says there that Miller is appalled by Loughner's actions and doesn't think his work inspired the shootings, but he does admit he thinks Loughner had been on his website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wynn_Miller


My thoughts and prayers are with Loughner's victims, their families and friends, their community, and our entire nation.

And I do think we need to tone down the political rhetoric in this country, especially the more violent talk. Whatever the political leanings of an unstable individual, constant talk of violence -- and especially self-righteous justifications of violence or suggestions that there's anything heroic about violence -- do make it more likely that unstable individuals will become violent. The over-the-top rhetoric can make people sound foolish, too, to everyone whose views don't exactly mesh with theirs. We need more open-mindedness and less ideology. More listening and less rhetoric.

And I'd hope pet lovers would understand this. After all, we know what constant exposure to displays of violence, threats of violence, verbal intimidation and so on can do to pets. They affect people as well.

[SinbadsMom]

Sigh. Your mind is already made up, and I wouldn't even know where to start debating with anyone who thinks Mein Kampf is a "lefty favorite."

Anyway, the links are there for people who are more interested in additional information.

The NY Times published a detailed look at what's known about Loughner in a long article the other day:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16loughner.html

Again, this is someone who

is mentally ill;

has abused both alcohol and drugs (according to his friends he'd given up drugs years ago but continued to drink, and in fact he told the cab driver the day of the shooting that he drank too much);

is obsessed with guns, to the point of getting tattoos of bullets;

has felt rejected by his father, his schools, and the US military;

and has been caught up for years in weird anti-government rhetoric and conspiracy theories, especially ideas associated with fringe groups that are sometimes described as off the political spectrum and sometimes described as far right.

This is what we know about him. It's tragic that he didn't get psychiatric help, and that he had access to guns.

[Bonny]

Sigh. Your mind is already made up, and I wouldn't even know where to start debating with anyone who thinks Mein Kampf is a "lefty favorite."

Anyway, the links are there for people who are more interested in additional information.

The NY Times published a detailed look at what's known about Loughner in a long article the other day:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16loughner.html

Again, this is someone who

is mentally ill;

has abused both alcohol and drugs (according to his friends he'd given up drugs years ago but continued to drink, and in fact he told the cab driver the day of the shooting that he drank too much);

is obsessed with guns, to the point of getting tattoos of bullets;

has felt rejected by his father, his schools, and the US military;

and has been caught up for years in weird anti-government rhetoric and conspiracy theories, especially ideas associated with fringe groups that are sometimes described as off the political spectrum and sometimes described as far right.

This is what we know about him. It's tragic that he didn't get psychiatric help, and that he had access to guns.

Mentally Ill Is What It Is All About. Jared needed the help & didn't get it. Everyone that knew Jared saw it coming & did NOTHING.

Is that where the Bill of Rights Comes in?

[lizbud]

Is that where the Bill of Rights Comes in?

Could you please explain what you mean with this statement?


He was a regular poster to several online sites where a lot of people
were confused by his online ramblings & rants. They suspected he was "off" but what could they have done about it, but avoid him?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/14/....html?hpt=Sbin

[Bonny]

Could you please explain what you mean with this statement?


He was a regular poster to several online sites where a lot of people
were confused by his online ramblings & rants. They suspected he was "off" but what could they have done about it, but avoid him?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/14/....html?hpt=Sbin

Am talking about family, friends, people that knew him that saw this big change in him. What about the school that said he needed mental help? No one helped him. He surely was no longer able to help himself.

Jared had the right to carry a gun but he abused that right. Jared had all the Freedoms the Bill of Rights allows all of us to have & he abused them because he IS mentally ill. Everyone else is getting political so why not add the Bill of Rights if you want to pin it down to something really political.