Terri Schiavo - so sad :(

[sirrahbed]

.....with all the disagreement about what a "feeding tube" is or is not, "artificial" or not....I looked closely at my 2000 signed and notarized Living Will and noted that ventilators and feeding tubes are in the same paragraph and both considered "life support" and are to either be removed or not even begun if my condition should become dependant on them. There is a place to initial if you believe in this way and want them refused. There is no distinction between the status of feeding tubes or vents.

While I fully agree that a feeding tube IS life support in the same way as is a respirator/ventilator (both air and food is needed to stay akive) .....I wonder if this differs from state to state.

[caseysmom]

the parents of terry schiavo had wonderful things to say about there son in law when he was suing for malpractice...apparantly they say he offered them half of the money and when he didn't give that to them it got ugly...I personally feel that both sides have long since forgotten about terry.

[Pam]

Originally posted by Luvin Labs



Because Terri never wanted to 'live' like this. This is all about following Terri's wishes.
I see him following through with his vows explicitly.

Luvin Labs with all due respect I don't think you have been following this as carefully as I have. I have become quite fixated on the whole thing, much to my amazement. I recently watched a nurse on TV who tended Terri for two years and knew Michael very well. She asked Michael years ago what Terri's wishes were and he said "I have no idea." Why does her testimony mean nothing???

I have also listened to interviews with her close girlfriends. They do not like Michael Schiavo and reported he was very controlling and often made Terri cry. They said she didn't share this part of her life with her parents because she didn't want to disappoint them. I find these girls to be very credible. How many of us would confide in a girlfriend before a parent. I think probably an awful lot.

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by Luvin Labs
Because Terri never wanted to 'live' like this. This is all about following Terri's wishes.

Okay, well I may not want to live like that either but I certainly don't want to be starved to death!!

I see him following through with his vows explicitly.

How is committing adultery following through with his marriage vows explicitly??

So if my husband breaks his back and cannot be the person I married (for awhile, or ever, take your pick), that means I have the right to go find someone else? No way! FOR BETTER OR WORSE. IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH. 'TIL DEATH DO US PART.

Main Entry: death
Pronunciation: 'deth
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English deeth, from Old English dEath; akin to Old Norse dauthi death, deyja to die -- more at DIE
1 : a permanent cessation of all vital functions : the end of life

[Pam]

Sirrabed, (Deb) there is a difference between a ventilator and a respirator as I am sure you know. A ventilator assists with breathing where a respirator does all of the breathing for youl. I know this from my father, father-in-law, and brother-in-law who all suffered strokes. They were all on respirators in the beginning and recovered and moved to ventilators and then began breathing on their own.

[caseysmom]

I didn't find that nurse credible at all.

[lbaker]

Removing someone's feeding tube does NOT cause starvation, cause of death is dehydration. Still it's death (not murder) and I have already said I'm staying out of any more discussion here - especially about moral issues or personal opinions, but I just wanted to say - if we are going to discuss medical situations let's at least use the proper medical terms.

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by lbaker
Removing someone's feeding tube does NOT cause starvation, cause of death is dehydration. Still it's death (not murder) and I have already said I'm staying out of any more discussion here - especially about moral issues or personal opinions, but I just wanted to say - if we are going to discuss medical situations let's at least use the proper medical terms.

Fair enough. The word "starve" and all of its conjugations have been changed to "dehydrate" and its various conjugations in my post on page 8.

[sirrahbed]

Originally posted by Pam
Sirrabed, (Deb) there is a difference between a ventilator and a respirator as I am sure you know. ..

No, as far as I have ever known - the two words are interchangeable for a life-sustaining device to make breathing happen. I have been out of nursing for so many years but still believe it is the same?? I did some brief googling and find this to be so. A vent or respirator *can* have multiple controls ranging from assist ....like say, one breath after a 20 second pause - OR maybe 6-8 automatic breaths/minute to full vent, either continual nonstop or after a set timed pause. That is all I know and back in "the old days" - we only used the word vent even though they ranged in their performance. I suspect "respirator" describes a more sophisticated vent. I am not being picky - just using the terms as I recall them. My Living Will uses the catch-all "life sustaining treatment". I really think they are the same thing.

[caseysmom]

sirrahbed...according to this you are right.



http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/mplusdictionary.html

type in respirator

[ramanth]

My step-grandma died of bone cancer recently. Towards the end, she refused to eat and the family had to decide whether or not to put in a feeding tube to force her to eat.

In the end, they decided against it. Why prolong her suffering?

So I guess in a way we starved/dehydrated grandma to death.

In the end we stop eating, stop breathing, organs shut down... that's death. It's not supposed to be pretty.

My dad has a Living Will and he does not want to be on any machines and has signed a DNR.

He called his mom to express his wishes to her.

She promptly told him that she'd rather have him on a machine than see him die and would take my mom to court if she had too.

Some people need to learn how to let go.

My dad told my mom that if anything happened to him, to wait until he was verified dead before calling his mom.

How sad is that.

[sirrahbed]

Originally posted by ramanth
So I guess in a way we starved/dehydrated grandma to death.
You have assorted murderers posting with you Kimmy. I am one, too.

In the end we stop eating, stop breathing, organs shut down... that's death. It's not supposed to be pretty.
True - but I think my mom's death was very peaceful and not at all unpleasant to watch - once my dad went home....

My dad has a Living Will and he does not want to be on any machines and has signed a DNR. My dad told my mom that if anything happened to him, to wait until he was verified dead before calling his mom.
Good - it is safe for your mom to call his mom then....(don't want fighting, do you??)

How sad is that.
I totally do NOT know WHY I am finding humor in any of it - guess I am past pathetic???....No, I think all of this has generated healthy taking and thinking about real life and death issues - hopefully while we are still healthy and sound-minded enough to make these decisions. It seems to me to be terribly unfair to leave it all to the living to sort out - when we know more of the options...NOW. Yes?

[Edwina's Secretary]

I have told my husband the greatest compliment he could pay me, should I die before him, is to remarry quickly. That marriage was a good thing. If I should be in a long term coma or mentally gone because of dementia or the like...I would WANT him to have female companionship.

Life is for the living....and it is very short. I would not want him to be lonely. I trust he could find ways to honor my memory and still find some pleasure in life.

[Luvin Labs]

Luvin Labs with all due respect I don't think you have been following this as carefully as I have. I have become quite fixated on the whole thing, much to my amazement. I recently watched a nurse on TV who tended Terri for two years and knew Michael very well. She asked Michael years ago what Terri's wishes were and he said "I have no idea." Why does her testimony mean nothing???

I have also listened to interviews with her close girlfriends. They do not like Michael Schiavo and reported he was very controlling and often made Terri cry. They said she didn't share this part of her life with her parents because she didn't want to disappoint them. I find these girls to be very credible. How many of us would confide in a girlfriend before a parent. I think probably an awful lot.

I have been, reading up on just about every website I find dealing with this case, biased sites and unbiased sites. I don't think that nurses testimony means much, frankly. And what about the other witnesses who stated that Terri doesn't want to live like that? Believe one nurse who didn't hear it from Terri, or from several others who heard it from Terri?

And, if her friends knew about this from Terri, why didn't they step up when this happened??? Especially when her parents said something about the bone scan????

How is committing adultery following through with his marriage vows explicitly??

So if my husband breaks his back and cannot be the person I married (for awhile, or ever, take your pick), that means I have the right to go find someone else? No way! FOR BETTER OR WORSE. IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH. 'TIL DEATH DO US PART.

Please come up with a BETTER 'example' of something comparable to the condition Terri is in... yeesh.

Your 'example' is comparing apples to oranges. Hubby who breaks back is totally different from being in a PVS like Terri is.

After he's exhausted all efforts, and found out that there is NO CHANCE OF RECOVERY, that she is basically a body with NO COGNITIVE brain functions, he decided to fulfill Terri's wishes of not living like that. He's BEEN with her this WHOLE time, in sickness and in health, and he's basically considered her GONE just like everyone ELSE who's evaluated her and examined her!... So he has every RIGHT to continue his life while fighting for her rights. He's STILL married to her.

Breaking a back and being fed through a feeding tube are totally not the same.

In the end we stop eating, stop breathing, organs shut down... that's death. It's not supposed to be pretty.

agreed. death never is pretty.

[caseysmom]

I am not sure how someone here can think they are following this more than someone else...sorry that is just not very nice.